Genneva Gold

Someone sent me a question to ask me about Genneva Gold Sdn Bhd.

According to the information on the website, Genneva Gold sells you Gold Bullion at a 2% discount to the market price with a buy-back guarantee.

At the end of one month, the buyer can

  1. Sell buy the gold to Genneva Gold at the market price based on the time he bought (thus making an immediate 2% profit)
  2. Keep the Gold Bullion.
  3. Rollover. Meaning do step one and buy a new Gold Bullion at a 2% discount to the current market price.

The deal seems too good to be true because the company is essentially selling you gold at a 2% discount and giving you a free put option.

There doesn’t seem to be any downside for the investor. If the price of gold goes down, he can sell it back to the company. If the price of gold goes up, he can keep the gold and sell it on a secondary market by himself.

genneva gold

genneva gold

Anyone considering this investment should ask important questions like:

  1. How does Genneva Gold generate revenue/profit from this entire transaction?
  2. Assuming an investor does just the bare minimum and rollovers his investment for 12 months, he would have made a 24% return. How does Genneva Gold substain this payout?
  3. How do you verify that the gold you receive is worth its weight in gold?

There is a “Terms and Conditions” to the 2% discount thing though. I would be interested to know what they are.

Comments

  1. Cheah Ming Choo says

    Dear All,
    This joyeous season may be gloomy for the 6,000 who had either fully paid but not get their gold or returned the gold and waiting for their refund and the balance of the 60,000 who are holding the gold who can sell to third parties at a fraction of the price paid for.
    TGG is perpetuating a more pernicious scheme and those “customer” must be prepared for the doomsday scenerio.
    Genneva lies :
    1. RHB being told by BNM not to sell gold to them
    From June 2012, there is a surplus of gold from buyback against sales yet the period for delivery of gold get longer and those who had serendered their gold waited for ages to get refund;
    2. The company explained their less than RM100 million in their frozen accounts and 126 kg gold with the nonsense that they are rolling their money. Anybody with some basics in accounting will be able to grasp that in accounting there is assets, liabilities and “work in progress” so as to account for all “ins” and “outs”. Maybe the goldco is practising their “private” accounting;
    4. With the price of gold not climbing but dancing around the LME spot of USD1600 – 1750, where did their get the money to pay the hibah, commission and expenses from December 2011 to Sept 2012. Do they own the proverbial “Money Tree”?

  2. Cheah Ming Choo says

    The intrepid nine had filed their claim for around RM2 million and looking at the case of The Gold Label, this looks like the direction to go as the authorities are preparing to press charges against the ponzi perpetuators. However, the names or most of the “Penang datos” are not is the list of defendents.
    Dato’ Kow – Regional Director and Goldbeam Sec-gen;
    Dato’ Ng Poh Weng ex GM1 and Goldbeam chairman;
    Dato’ Sunny (Marcus) Yee Ex-GM1 and Goldbeam Vice Chairman;
    Dato’ William Chin Ex-GM1 and Vice Chairman of Goldbeam;
    Poh Ted An East Malaysia Director
    Remember to be Syariah Compliant, SELLER MUST OWN THE GOLD BEING SOLD and not deliver it a month after full payment on the pretext that the goldco had not accepted the offer to purchase or that they cannot buy the gold from their regular supplier due to BNM intervention.

  3. Lee Mei May says

    Anybody interested to see the 4 Genneva Sdn Bhd directors charged under AMLA & BAFIA can see them at the KL sessions court on 2nd & 4th January 2013. Their next appearance may be in Singapore. What next?

    • Angry Man says

      Do you have any latest update regarding Amazing Yield & Preferred Credential?

  4. p c wong says

    SEE THIS POSTING IN LOW YAT FORUM:

    d*** yap : I am totally sick and tired of all the confusions and bickerings posted by pro and anti GMSB. I now would like to ask yet again this very important question, which I have posted before, and never seemed to have a satisfactory answer. Question is, now I would like to ask Mr. Hargopal Singh. ” Mr. Hargopal, sir, we attented your forum on the laws on Syariah, Amla and Bafia. And on one of many subjects, you shared with us was GENNEVA MALAYSIA BERHAD TRUST ACCOUNT, which you put in layman terms was this said TRUST ACCOUNT was created so that to reassure us that this was a safety net for customers, that should anything untoward happened to Genneva, all money paid to GMSB TRUST ACCOUNT, pertaining to purchase of gold and while in transistion at transaction, that should customers have yet to recieve their gold, we were reassured that our money paid into this said Trust Account cannot legally be “touched” no matter what. The money belongs to us. This Trust Account is separated from the company’s account. The same legality applied to those who have sold their gold back and yet to have recieve their money” If I remembered correctly you proudly said you were the person who created this Trust Account account for GMSB for the benefits of all puchasers. You even quoted a court case to strenghten your arguement whereby a certain bank sued a company who went into bankruptcy, and that the bank only can get whatever assets and money belonging to the said company but not the money of its clients placed in the company’s Trust Account. So you further reassured us that we should then go and do sales and to tell our clients about the legality of GMSB TRUST ACCOUNT. Can you now reassure us no matter what is the outcome pending the BNM’s investigation in GMSB, we will get our gold and money back every single cent of it? We owed this to our clients for placing their trust in Genneva, specially in this TRUST ACCOUNT on which we pitched our sales with much confident and assurance. Thank you sir. d*** yap.

    THE MASTERMIND OF THE TRUST ACCOUNT IS, ACCDING TO D YAP, HARGOPAL SINGH. HE IS THE GENNEVA PUNJABI LAWYER?
    CLAIMED THAT ALL INVESTORS’ money/DEPOSITS ARE PROTECTED BECAUSE THEY ARE IN TRUST ACCOUNT WHICH DIRECTORS CANNOT TOUCH. BUT ON 1 SEP 2012 THEY MOVED ALL MONEY OUt OF THE TRUST ACCOUNT?

    HE IS THE PUNJABI LAWYER OF MARTIN LEE’s GENNEVA BLOG ” ANON ME”
    FAME.

    THIS IS WHERE THE GENNEVA INVESTORS’ IRE SHD BE DIRECTED.

  5. p c wong says

    On the Bar Council web site there is listed one “HARGOPAL SINGH”. To find out where this lawyer is located, do check the Bar website:

    a. Google “Malaysian Bar”.
    b. On Bar Home page, at top menu, choose “Find a Lawyer”.
    c. Input the name and search.
    d. The lawyer’s Name, Address of Business, date of call to Bar, contact tels, etc are given.
    e. GENNEVA investors SHD check whether he is the same Lawyer doing the legalwork for GENNEVA.

  6. Cheah Ming Choo says

    Sick suffering dying
    So says krishnamoorthy muthaly on the Genneva supporter facebook page.
    Well, well, does their conscience tells them that all these are due to their own greed and the goldco’s non sustainable business model.
    1. Genneva SG repeated the grandfather goldco’s “park in” scheme under the innovative “Safe Keeping Receipt” SKR for short. 3 directors of Genneva Sg are Malaysian, the very same one in the grandfather goldco with the initials NPW, MYYS alias SYYS, WC who blame it on their only Sg director Liew Vun Kiong and shrugging off their fiduciary responsibilities. The Sg authorities should deal with these people as deem fit;
    2. Blaming BNM for instructing RHB bank not to sell gold to them resulting in delays in delivery of gold to customers, when in actual fact, from June to end Sept 2012, there is more buyback than sale and hence an abundance stock of gold but not enough money to roll;
    3. All their scheming is intentional as they already forsee their scheme is a ponzi and with their clever Punjabi lawyer they are putting all the protective clauses in the agreement to the detriment of the customers;
    4. Their “Trust Account” is being emptied as soon as the money is put in by the customers and is nothing more than a scam;
    5. The goldco knows that BNM has all their documents and had gone to International firms to carry out “forensic auditing” hence they are running to the PM to wave the magic wand;
    6. Hopefully BNM can pre-empt such skullduggery by initiating legal action first.

  7. Dari Sekinchan says

    The next big show to come is THE GOLD GUARANTEE. stay tuned, we dont know when the big bang will come. It will just come on when we least expects it. Just like the 4 companies.

  8. Cheah Ming Choo says

    On 22/01/2013, the Sessions Court deliberated on the Genneva Sdn Bhd case (reported both in the Star & NST and also the TV news)and the Company and directors NPW, WCWL, MYYS and ex-director LCW were asked to enter their defence on Deposit Taking charges (to the amount of RM141 million) while the directors were asked to enter their defence on money laundering charges and the nex sitting date for the court is 15/03/2013. It is interesting to note :
    1. While it is claimed that the amount involved in the deposit taking charges is RM141 milliom, the frozen accounts only had RM20 million and 5 kg of gold were seized;
    2. The goldco and 3 director had changed their lawyer from the much touted Wong Kian Kheong of Razak Baginda fame to Mohamed Haniff Khatri Abdullah;
    3. The goldco spinmeister PL had portrayed the prosecution as a bunch of bumbling idiots and there is no case for the goldco and its directors to answer;
    4. With this going for a hearing on 15/03/2013, we will soon see the charging of the goldco raided on 01/10/2012 and my guess is that Sg will be taking action soon too;
    5. The default by TGG is going to put more pressure on the authorities to act fast.

  9. Angry Man says

    would like to confirm if anybody know that either Amazing Yield or Preferred Credential background because I’ve happen to be in the same problem like geneva and now the consultant is not even bothering to help .. and give the lame excuse .. I need those ppl responsibility for this … my parents savings gone

  10. P c wong says

    Re Amazing Yield, if business model is the same or almost similar as Genneva’s , then sorry to say, all the investment is kaput, finito.

  11. Anisa Mirza Khan says

    I invested a huge amount with Geneva Gold a year ago in Singapore. I received monthly income promised for only 4 months. More than a year has passed but not a word about this Company Geneva Gold & whether there I any chance of recovering our losses. What is happening about Geneva Gold ? So many people like myself have lost huge amounts & we have no knowledge about what steps the government is taking to help us recover our losses. A more structured time frame & full report must be given by the police is to give us some hope

  12. Cheah Ming Choo says

    Beware of the Gen4 genneva and their offsprings. Gen4 Genneva will debute soon (maybe on the anniversary of the BNM raid on Gen3 Genneva)and the Penang Kow, the Regional Marketing Director of Gen3 Genneva had set up WESTRANK and have taken in the Gen3 Genneva Con-Sultans such as Shanti. In 2 weeks will be the anniversary of the BNM raid on Gen3 Genneva and we are still waiting for BNM’s action after the Governor’s FAST TRACK ACTION PROMISE. Was the raid carried out at Genneva’s request when they cannot meet their commitments?

    • Tom says

      Why does Bank Negara let those conned men continuously con the public esp. those the weaker ones by setting up similar operation business platform of cheating the innocent ones? It is really painful to see people got cheated this way! Sure the directors of Geneva have moved those investment moneys to overseas and it is disappointed to see the unfortunate one bark at the wrong tree i.e. Bank Negara.

      • Peter says

        Hi, Ming Choo, I really admires your unfailing efforts to warn many to be careful with their investments in this Genneva group of companies. Yes, I agree with you that the raid in Oct.12 was purposely carried out at Genneva’s request as then they were most likely unable to meet their payments to their poor investors. They were very sneaky and canning as by doing so they are now relieved and pass the buck to Bank Negara. Apart from those bank balances and gold held up by Bank Negara, the directors I am sure still have plenty in their hands. I think they have settled amicably with those active senior consultants who are on their side as one can see those lies as written by them in the Face book, such as : saying prayers lah, God is mercy lah, law consultancy in the formation of Judi. Review lah , and be patient waiting for good news lah , and all the rubbish lah ‘ etc etc . While those poor ones are still crying, these so-called senior consultants are able to travelling overseas enjoying their life. So your guess is my guess as it is as clear as broad daylight. Pray that Karma befalls
        on those directors and those canning Senior Consultants.

  13. Cheah Ming Choo says

    BNM had used the same series of charges on the serial scammers after the raid on Genneva Sdn Bhd on 21/07/2009 and despite the fact that the “Park-in” is a blazen deposit taking where money is paid but no goods delivered, the court had seen it fit to dismiss the charges. Yesterday, it is more of the same in the various courts. Is there no case against Joseph Kow who is now using Westrank for his gold scheme or the East Malaysian Director Poh Ted An. It is time the cheated investors come out and sue GMSB and all the directors and associates and BNM for their losses due to fraud.

    • Tom says

      It looks that the 6 directors will be free again for all charges as those levied to the directors of Genneva Sdn. Bhd. After conned rm5.5 billions from those poor 35,000 investors, they will be free again and enjoy their loots. This will encourage other scammers go the market with a free hand and without conscience to cheat people again and again. They really are parasites living on others’ hard earned savings especially from those retirees. How many will be made committing suicides? What sort of society now in Malaysia ?

  14. Peter says

    I can foresee those evil directors of Genneva Malaysia who are being charged, will be free again. And then BNM will appeal to seize and freeze their assets . This will be a win win position of those conned scammers and the public authorities. Meantime they are free to form whatever Sd,Bhds, again to further con people. I bet there are plenty of these greedy and ignorant fools willing to be scammed again and again. What a sad unending story.

  15. Cheah Ming Choo says

    Is 35,000 cheated investors not sufficient to take up a Class Action against the perpetuators of the scam? A Sdn Bhd siphoning money into a private family company is fraud and breach of trust. Will the commercial crime division of the police or the ROC/SSM act? MYR900 plus million should rightfully be returned to those 35,000 plus customers who had been cheated.

  16. AC says

    Lioninvestor,

    Let me correct the statement, it is not $200 left to generate 24%, but 2% as the contract term is only one month in Singapore.

    Now, sidetrack a bit. There are quite a lot of assumption that is not base on facts and make a conclusion that it is a “scam”. It is human nature as we tend to make a conclusion after hearing from news, forums, etc. It is so easy to judge a company / person without getting to know them personally. The news that we hear can give us check and balance provided we get the facts correctly. How do we know the facts? It’s by hearing from the horses mouth, and in my opinion, Genneva management. From there, you can draw your own conclusion.

    Look at the classic example of the star newspaper article on Genneva. It is laughable as it has more than 8 misleading, inaccurate and fabrication report that is not base on facts. The reporter did not do his research well and got shot on it’s own foot.

    An example, the statement on “A Bank Negara official however told Starprobe that Genneva was not licensed” is misleading the readers as Genneva DOES NOT need a license from Bank Negara to operate as a goldsmith.

    Why is everyone harping that the company need the approval from Bank Negara? This is because the public perception is Genneva is a gold investment scheme (again from The Star) when the company is a goldsmith like any other jewelers in Singapore / Malaysia that offer a discount just like any other retails. Do I tell a nasi lemak stall that you need a license from Bank Negara / MAS to sell?

    Investment scheme is for companies like banks who offer investment structure product, fix deposit, unit trusts, shares etc and in return get dividend / interest. Such scheme surely need a license from MAS/BN/SC to regulate and monitor.

    Another question is bank only gives low interest, therefore any company offer more than the banks is akin to a “scam”. Now, is it because the bank cannot offer better interest or simply because they comply to regulatory set by BN/MAS?

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