Someone sent me a question to ask me about Genneva Gold Sdn Bhd.
According to the information on the website, Genneva Gold sells you Gold Bullion at a 2% discount to the market price with a buy-back guarantee.
At the end of one month, the buyer can
- Sell buy the gold to Genneva Gold at the market price based on the time he bought (thus making an immediate 2% profit)
- Keep the Gold Bullion.
- Rollover. Meaning do step one and buy a new Gold Bullion at a 2% discount to the current market price.
The deal seems too good to be true because the company is essentially selling you gold at a 2% discount and giving you a free put option.
There doesn’t seem to be any downside for the investor. If the price of gold goes down, he can sell it back to the company. If the price of gold goes up, he can keep the gold and sell it on a secondary market by himself.
genneva gold
Anyone considering this investment should ask important questions like:
- How does Genneva Gold generate revenue/profit from this entire transaction?
- Assuming an investor does just the bare minimum and rollovers his investment for 12 months, he would have made a 24% return. How does Genneva Gold substain this payout?
- How do you verify that the gold you receive is worth its weight in gold?
There is a “Terms and Conditions” to the 2% discount thing though. I would be interested to know what they are.
3185 comments
KLbull says:
May 16, 2012 at 9:49 am (UTC 8)
Al-Shakeera newsflash 9.00am 16 May 2012
“Authorities at Sunnyside Funnyfarm this morning reported the mysterious escape of an inmate. Police say the escaped patient is not armed but may be dangerous. He is credited with making a record 11 senseless comments on martinlee’s blog site yesterday. Netizens are warned to take extra care when visiting the Genneva thread on said blog site. The escapee is readily identified by the brilliant greenish tinge on his facial skin, the unfortunate result of a recent accident.
While authorities would not disclose what the patient was being treated for, citing patient confidentiality, reliable sources reveal it to be for an extremely rare psychotic condition known as EQS or Extreme Question Syndrome. Little is known about this illness except that it causes the afflicted to repetitively pose certain questions, to which he demands only the specific answers he desires.This obsession could be rooted in some long buried childhood trauma. However, its latest recurrence in the escaped subject was speculated to have been triggered by the declining price of gold. Researchers at Sunnyside have been trying for years to find the link between the cause and trigger for the onset of EQS without much success. If the escaped subject is not found, it could delay their findings indefinitely.
Newbie says:
May 16, 2012 at 10:53 am (UTC 8)
Truly original and hilarious!
Anonymous me says:
May 16, 2012 at 11:24 am (UTC 8)
Dear viewers
Pls take note of further posts from KLbull. When the character of one is such as this, you may deduce the quality/credibility of ones postings.
KLbull says:
May 16, 2012 at 3:21 pm (UTC 8)
TQ for highlighting and complimenting the quality of my postings. I shall strive to do even better. I hope you enjoyed it. Are you a fan of singer/dancer Shakira?
Anonymous me says:
May 16, 2012 at 3:34 pm (UTC 8)
Dear KLbull
Once again, you have purposely misread the meaning of my post. It is easy to lead a bull by its nose ring.
I am not.
KLbull says:
May 17, 2012 at 9:17 am (UTC 8)
Al-Shakeera news update 0900 hrs 17 May2012
Authorities at Sunnyside Funnyfarm where an inmate escaped a day ago strenuously denied he was a dangerously violent mutant being. Rumors had been circulating of sightings of a greenish creature. Dr Hibah, visiting professor from the University of Golden Promises, Geneva, elaborated ” Our top secret Extra Mild Gamma Radiation treatment, or EMGR for short, for the treatment of Extreme Question Syndrome is perfectly safe on human subjects. Any physical resemblance between our patient and a certain greenish comic book character is purely coincidental.”
An expert from the Psychotic Society, however, was less sanguine than the good professor. He asserted “EMGR is an experimental procedure. The patient’s EQS was believed to have been triggered by the falling price of gold. If gold falls to below US$1500 per ounce, it is possible the intolerable stress combined with inappropriate gamma radiation could turn the patient into a green tinged “Incredulous Schmuck” being.
Police are still combing the neighborhood for the escapee. In the meantime, our honorary roving news ambassador, singer/dancer Shakira, on location shoot for her latest video album, had this short message for our readers ” Hips Don’t Lie”.
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 11:30 am (UTC 8)
Dear viewers
Pls take note of further posts from KLbull. When the character of one is such as this, you may deduce the quality/credibility of ones postings.
Dear KLbull – It is advisable to stop such posts before you completely and utterly destroy your own image and repute in the eyes of all viewers.
suzie wong says:
May 16, 2012 at 10:10 am (UTC 8)
Anon me,
I have yet to come across another human being who is more irritating than you are. You try to appear clever when you are not, hence repeating the same tune over and over again and oftimes quoting (or borrowing phrases/clauses) from smarter posters of this blog.
Please be ORIGINAL! Surely someone so very defensive of GM2′s operations should be able to come out with more exciting info that readers are looking for. Go take a sabbatical (or you are already preparing for one?!) if this is all too difficult for you. Spare me the agony of reading your endless pestering that those 2 very “pooped” questions of yours be answered!! Don’t you feel embarrassed?
Keep up your good work LMM, KLBull and PC WONG. Even tho’ the uncles and aunties prefer to live in denial having already “invested”, your postings should be appreciated by the “greenhorns” who are considering.
Anonymous me says:
May 16, 2012 at 11:36 am (UTC 8)
Dear suzie wong
I would like my questions answered.
When I quote, it is either to avoid misunderstanding that such phrases/clauses are originally from me, or to show the contradictory nature of such phrases/clauses.
Pls show me an instance when I have been “very defensive of GM2′s operations”. I would like to see, clarify and apologise for it if necessary.
I have questions needing elaboration/clarification for certain posters’ viewpoint/opinions. Why are you asking me to provide exciting info?
You and An Observer do not feel embarrassed that you need to insinuate or insult another’s posting as excrement. Why should I feel embarrassed by my 2 valid questions?
p c wong says:
May 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm (UTC 8)
Ha ha ha!!
Someone forgot or failed to recall that he “pooped 2 questions” to be answered. Pls refer to the earlier postings.
Anonymous me says:
May 16, 2012 at 2:41 pm (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
I was playing along with the post by An Observer who insinuated my posts as excrement. You may refer to it.
If you and suzie wong are unable to grasp or you do but insist on capitalising this as a spelling error in order to instill more derogatory remarks on me, nothing can be done.
Viewers are watching.
An Observer says:
May 17, 2012 at 12:42 am (UTC 8)
Kindly leave my name out of this. As per your post (May 10, 2012 at 10:55 am) and Suzie Wong’s post (May 12, 2012 at 8:11 am), there has been no other mention of it.
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 10:09 am (UTC 8)
Dear An Observer
Sorry, but it is required in order to clarify certain happenings as well as intentions of certain posters, myself included.
You are indeed the poster who originally insinuated as such on May 10, 2012 at 12:46 am.
For light-hearted reasons, I played along on May 10, 2012 at 10:55 am.
Suzie wong decided to use it on May 12, 2012 at 8:11 am and take it a step further in his/her insult of my postings.
Lastly, p c wong wanted to remind everyone of these ugly postings on May 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm.
If you did not intend as your post implied, pls state now for the record. Then, further such reference by any posters will thus be known to be of a malicious nature.
An Observer says:
May 17, 2012 at 3:24 pm (UTC 8)
Dear readers,
This is my post on May 10, 2012 at 12.46 am, as referred to above, by anon. Herewith, I leave it to all viewers (except anon me) to decide upon the conclusion, as to whether the word “pop” could be misinterpreted as “poop”, or whether there were any insinuations as alleged by anon.
Excerpt from May 10, 2012 12:46 am:
“Dear greenhorn, I think Anon Me has already posted on this earlier. However, he may desire to provide you with an updated reply, which neverthless may prove to be interesting reading. You never know what might just pop out of his, um, complicated head.”
(The entire post can be found on Page 12 of this blog)
Note that prior to this post, there was no usage of the word “pop” or “poop” in anyone’s post, so there isn’t any reason or occasion to draw parallels or connections between these two very isolated words.
I shall say no more on this matter, as I have faith in the readers’ opinion.
Thank you.
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 4:35 pm (UTC 8)
Dear An Observer
Thank you for the clarification and reproduction of your post in its entirety. Indeed, readers can form their own opinion on this.
Henceforth, further reference to this is purely malicious.
KLbull says:
May 18, 2012 at 8:52 am (UTC 8)
Anon me,
You don’t get away that easy. That is not an apology to “An Observer” for a heinous misquotation. Do you know where your bodily orifices are situated? What pops and what poops from what orifice? Even a primary school child knows. Not you, apparently.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 9:13 am (UTC 8)
Dear KLbull
Pls advise where the “heinous misquotation” occurred?
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 12:26 am (UTC 8)
No replies from suzie wong and KLbull.
greenhorn says:
May 17, 2012 at 1:07 am (UTC 8)
Dear Anon,
I read (carefully) that you have no money to buy GM gold, but you have strong confidence in the company and the returns that it promised. And based on that confidence, may I ask the following: -
1) GM pays out 25% return in a year, and after 4 years you will stand to win back 100% of your capital. This is what you asked others to confirm your arithmetic. What do you think? Where GM stands, this fact is infallible. Do you agree? If not, you have to change your calculator.
2) And if you agree to the above Q1, it means that GM returns are much much better than the bank, right? Even if you borrow bank loan, the interest charged is, say 10% max in today’s market – it is still very much lower than the return that you can get from GM2 investment. Agree? So, why not you borrow bank loan to invest in GM2 as the net return is still consider high? It is more productive that way than wasting time on this forum trying to get these risk averse people (& self proclaim prophet, in your opinion) to confirm the above Q1. Still not too late, as Mother’s Day promotion is on-going. So, quickly make your way to the bank now and apply for the loan. If you miss this month, not to worry, there is a good chance there will be Father’s day promotion too. My advise to you is – be confident, follow your guts and head to the bank. Even if your loan is not approved, not to worry as you can always borrow from Ah Long. You could be right that LMM / KLBull / PC Wong prediction of May/June collapsed will not come to pass, as GM has a secret ‘coca-cola recipe’ business model that cannot be shared with the world. As you have great faith in them, now trust yourself and invest. Come back in 4 years time, and have the last laugh at all the doomsayers on this forums!
Seriously, you could be right. Be a winner!
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 10:39 am (UTC 8)
Dear greenhorn
You might need to go back to the drawing board and rethink your reading process.
Pls advise where I might have indicated that I have “strong confidence in the company and the returns that it promised”. If I have, I will need to clarify and/or apologise if it caused you to misread my post. Till then, your questions are baseless.
As mentioned in many of my posts to you, the decision to buy is up to the individual. Utmost respect have been accorded in my replies to your posts to me. Answers were given in honest, direct and immediate fashion. You have not replied to my posts on pg 12 of this thread, dated May 15, 2012 at 9:38 am, May 15, 2012 at 10:03 am, May 16, 2012 at 9:50 am.
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 10:49 am (UTC 8)
Dear Lee Mei May, p c wong, KLbull and other “expert” posters
Pls see that greenhorn is goading me to purchase from goldco. As sincere posters, pls come to my aid and “explain” matters to him/her in your usual excellent manner.
Dear Jet – Yes, there are individuals out there who are less than scrupulous and will attempt to persuade others via verbal or printed means to borrow and invest. Unfortunately, your sis succumbed her judgement to such individuals.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:43 am (UTC 8)
Dear Lee Mei May, p c wong, KLbull and other “expert” posters
Pls see that greenhorn is goading me to purchase from goldco. As sincere posters, pls come to my aid and “explain” matters to him/her in your usual excellent manner.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 5:58 pm (UTC 8)
No reply from greenhorn.
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 12:28 am (UTC 8)
No aid from Lee Mei May, p c wong, KLbull and other “expert” posters.
greenhorn says:
May 19, 2012 at 2:24 am (UTC 8)
Dear Anon,
1) Are you saying you have NO ‘confidence in the company and the returns it promised’? Yes or no?
2) Are you saying after 4 years, you will not gain 100% of your invested capital in GM, if each year the average hibah pay-out is 25%? Yes or no?
Straight answers please. I’m trying to read you right.
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 7:17 am (UTC 8)
Dear greenhorn
1. No I do not say that. I am neutral.
2. No I do not say that.
I see you have learnt the art of throwing red herring. I asked and you “reply” with 2 questions. Questions phrased in such a way as to entrap.
Now, pls advise where I might have indicated that I have “strong confidence in the company and the returns that it promised”. If you have wilfully posted untrue and misleading meanings to my posts, pls admit it. Yes or no.
Straight answer please. I’m trying to read you right.
greenhorn says:
May 19, 2012 at 11:34 am (UTC 8)
Thank you for your reply.
So, you agree that after 4 years, you will gain 100% of your invested capital in GM, if each year the average hibah pay-out is 25%? Yes or no?
As for your question, I am drawn on that conclusion after reading all your posts in entirety. It is my opinion which i seek your confirmation that I am reading you right. Is that too much to ask? Why the hostility?
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 12:08 pm (UTC 8)
Dear greenhorn
Yes. Maths work that way for me.
In your post above, you said you have “read (carefully)” my posts, then proceeded to say I have “strong confidence in the company and the returns that it promised”. You did not mention it was a drawn conclusion. Nor did you seek my confirmation. Based on this self-drawn conclusion, you proceeded to ask me questions. In fact, the questions are wholly based on this self-drawn conclusion, as you said.
Now, pls advise where I might have indicated that I have “strong confidence in the company and the returns that it promised”. If you have wilfully posted untrue and misleading meanings to my posts, pls admit it. Yes or no.
There was no hostility. I only need a yes or no answer from you. Thank you
greenhorn says:
May 19, 2012 at 10:05 pm (UTC 8)
Dear Anon,
To your question, my straight answer is NO. And when you claim that LMM’s view is infallible, did you willfully post untrue & misleading meaning to LMM post too? Please admit it, yes or no?
And if your Maths work out that one stands to gain 100% after 4 years of investment in GM: -
1) why do you post this question again when you already know the answer? Or even that I have answered you? You truly seek an answer to that question or just trying to get the whole world to agree with you? What is your intention? What is your point in asking this question? May we know?
2) why didn’t you invest in GM, when your Maths shows the return is better than bank interest? May we know your thought process that leads you to your ‘individual’ decision NOT TO INVEST? Please enlighten us.
Please be assured that I meant no hostility here too. Just trying to read you right.
BBQ says:
May 16, 2012 at 10:36 am (UTC 8)
Anyone who has any first hand news or experience of being refused of buy backs or rebalancing, please alert on this page.
Anonymous me says:
May 16, 2012 at 11:39 am (UTC 8)
In all fairness, anyone who has any first hand news or experience of being accepted of buy backs or rebalancing, please alert on this page.
p c wong says:
May 16, 2012 at 9:31 pm (UTC 8)
We are being told not just to report that there was a tsunami this morning BUT to also make sure to report every day as follows: pleased to report that there WAS NO TSUNAMI this morning !! If you have such editors on your newspaper, won’t it go belly up very soon??
p c wong says:
May 16, 2012 at 9:35 pm (UTC 8)
We are being told not just to report that there was a tsunami this morning BUT to also make sure to report every day as follows: pleased to report that there WAS NO TSUNAMI this morning !! If you have such editors on your newspaper, won’t it go belly up very soon??
KITCO gold price now at USD1,542/oz. Is it about time now to flash out TSUNAMI ALERT: RED RED RED???
p c wong says:
May 17, 2012 at 9:16 am (UTC 8)
There is this inability to differentiate between “newsworthy event” i.e. Goldco not honouring Hibah or buyback as opposed to a “non-event” i.e. all obligations are being duly honoured. Are writers supposed to keep everyone informed of “non-events”??
On another note, you “re-coup” your investment or loss and not “re-cuperate” it. THe wrong word has connotations of illness or disaster or is this a manifestation in the deep subconscious that you may need to “recuperate” after getting hit by the Goldco??
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 9:50 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
You are right. There is this inability amoing some posters to differentiate “newsworthy event”.
Using your example of a tsunami alert as being a “newsworthy event”, it is exactly as “newsworthy” that if the alert was false/have been called off, it should be made known just as loudly. This “non-event” is equally as important.
I feel that if people were to act on the alert, leave their homes for shelters, abandon everything which they hold dear because of this tsumani alert, it is of utmost importance that they be told it is safe to return to their normal lifes. Pls don’t be chicken little.
Thank you, I will use the word “recoup” henceforth.
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 1:24 am (UTC 8)
You miss the point that the tsunami alert was for the months of May and June, which have yet to pass.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 9:21 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
As have you that viewers require updates on whether it has hit.
Following May and June, will you issue tsunami alerts in July, August, September etc? If yes, what are the possible reasons why the tsunami did not happen in May and June?
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:06 am (UTC 8)
Why don’t you wait for the months to pass?
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:26 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
So viewers can see such alerts may or may not be true.
Posters who issue such alerts are trying their luck month after month to “strike gold” (pun intended) so they can annouce to all and sundry “I TOLD YOU SO”. Unashamedly, they will keep predicting without need to disclaim themselves. Where is the credibility, chicken little?
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:44 am (UTC 8)
How would anyone know the predictions are not true if the months are yet to pass?
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:54 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
With such predictions looming over our heads, updates as to whether or not the prediction has happened are equally important.
For one thing, you already know and stated your prediction that goldco will 90% collapse in May and 100% collapse in June. Using this statement, pls try explaining your own question to yourself. You already know the answer prior to asking.
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 12:30 am (UTC 8)
No reply from p b wong to my following questions:
Following May and June, will you issue tsunami alerts in July, August, September etc? If yes, what are the possible reasons why the tsunami did not happen in May and June?
BBQ says:
May 16, 2012 at 4:16 pm (UTC 8)
I am sure it is a delight news and I am for it to hear that the goldco is honouring every single one of the customers on the buy back in full purchase price, honour of rebalancing and refund every cent of the discrepancy from purchase price to current Goldbeam price.
Lay Lai Hong says:
May 16, 2012 at 10:47 am (UTC 8)
Has anyone ask God or come before Him whether he oe she can post no logics,non events,keep on pointing fingers and make a conclusion that GM2 will collapse? Do anyone of you has a spirit which is higher than God? Please do not gossip lest god will pass his judgement on you one day. Make sure all comments is filtered through God in your spiritual understanding and wisdom.Come on. tell some more stories which God approves you to say. may God give wisdom to everyone who posts messages. hope to hear a lot from all of you hear. I love to see more of your valid comments from now on.Tell me some stories about GM2 if you understand their internal operations.
Magnum PI says:
May 16, 2012 at 10:55 am (UTC 8)
May I know what valid comments do you mean? Something that would be marketing driven like investing in Genneva is smart? Invest in something guarantee? Well they used to have a motto “the guaranteed” . What motto should they use now? Any valid answers mr Lay?
Magnum PI says:
May 16, 2012 at 10:49 am (UTC 8)
Gold has been on down hill and as of now it is below 1550 in Kitco. Genneva has every reason to be concerned now.
Lay Lai Hong says:
May 16, 2012 at 11:07 am (UTC 8)
Valid means facts and statistics which are in Goldco books you can access and prove it with statistics eg. how much sales make per day or how much redemptions collected from clients and assess i whether it is gain or loss or otherwise you can’t post anything without any judgment. Better contact an insider in GM2 so that we can learn better. Please make sense when you contribute. everyone wants to hear new and exciting stories. i love too and am waiting for everyone.
Nur says:
May 16, 2012 at 4:22 pm (UTC 8)
Hi everyone,
I was approached by someone from The Gold Guarantee Singapore, they are operating here in Malaysia. Anyone can advice me about this company?
Thank you.
Dari Sekinchan says:
May 16, 2012 at 10:42 pm (UTC 8)
Hi Nur.
I have to advice you to not touch that golco for the moment until they are fully incorporated in Malaysia with a proper local banking facilities. I tell you why,
In the recent years i was agent from TGL, Genneva and my last embarked is at CSG.
My leader in CSG has since last 1-2 months back has been courted by Gold Guarantee and hence we were being introduced to the company. We are a bunch that was introduced by our CSG leader to the goldco and were told how wonderful this goldco is.
A few of us from our bunch has then enquired about this goldco at SSM and BNM. Unknowingly we unintentionally alerted BNM about this goldco and they wonder how does the money shifted to Singapore without declaration for every gold purchased and transaction to the Singapore office, even how does the gold being imported into Malaysia without record. We happened to revealed some info of the company and modus operandi to them in the proses.
My guess is BNM may now started a silent probe and if they concluded the probe and may start to arrest the relevant people involved and launch a full fledge investigation. If that happens BNM may also inform the Singapore counterpart.
So for the time being i think you should keep out of it.
Nathan Kadair says:
May 16, 2012 at 11:37 pm (UTC 8)
Harbouring undeclared funds in and out of Malaysia is a serious offence and can be charged under smuggling crime. If the Unit Penyasatan Khas of BNM is aware of this then i can expect two persons Mr.Lian & Ms.Ng from the TGG office in KL could be nabed under handcuffs and detained for investigations. Whats more if what have been mentioned here the gold bars are harboured into the country undeclared to the local government. Probably by now the goldco could be monitored by MAS for its “outgoing” & “incoming” activities for all you know.
Sean says:
May 17, 2012 at 10:11 am (UTC 8)
There have been consultants of GM2 made reports to SSM with the instruction of the PL. Maybe BNM too.
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 12:03 pm (UTC 8)
Dear Dari Sekinchan
You wrote, “In the recent years i was agent from TGL, Genneva and my last embarked is at CSG.”
From your past posts on this thread, it is very obvious you are against the goldcos, what made you join as agent and when/why did you stop? Or are you still an agent with a goldco now?
Dari Sekinchan says:
May 18, 2012 at 9:53 am (UTC 8)
Mr. Anon Me,
Why am I against goldcos? I tell you why,
I first joined TGL, I so proudly introduced to my friends the mother schemes of all investment schemes, then it shut down on me.
Prior than that Genneva First generation got raided and my income gone,not to mention I have investors still have money stuck in their park ins which will never get it back. Later everyone found out that they had been doing illegally.
Now CSG went bankrupt, all my investors can’t continue with the program and forced to keep the gold at 25% above market price.
I have left out in the cold when commissions are deprived.
The current GMSB already says it out publicly they can have the rights not to buy back. Investors can stand a chace to lose 25-30% outright at an instant if the situation is not right.Now you tell me, is this model legitimate?
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 10:18 am (UTC 8)
Dear Dari Sekinchan
I did not ask why you are against goldcos.
What made you join as agent and when/why did you stop? Or are you still an agent with a goldco now?
If you do not wish to answer these questions, pls state so. I may then form my own inference/opinions/views. Thank you
Dari Sekinchan says:
May 18, 2012 at 1:02 pm (UTC 8)
Nop I m not anymore after CSG.
What made me join the goldcos? I guess it’s a part of greed factor.
Paul Sim says:
May 16, 2012 at 9:18 pm (UTC 8)
Hi there,
I have been following this thread for quite awhile now and I’d like thank ms LMM for all her persistence in sparring no effort in her advise against Genneva, while other post from KLBull, PCwong, BBQ & Suzie Wong seems to me like more of a personal bombardment in a debate that has left 2 questions unanswered, 2 simple questions by Anonymous to those who earlier predicted the doomdays of Genneva and the sunshine holidays by the directors in a certain date/ month…
I have notice that Anonymous Me and LMM seems to be of a more genuine character holding steadfast their cool temperament throughout the course of questions and insults from all the other nonsense remarks that to me really seems to be like at their best trying to divert readers attention to the original focus.
From my own conclusion and personal opinion, it is a risk but it is still a calculated risk and it really caters to different appetite and personality. I wouldn’t risk borrowing money just to go into Genneva’s program but yes, if i do have extra money sitting around, yes i would.
As i have said, this is my own personal opinion and in no way should it be an advice to any readers on a yes or no if Genneva is an ideal investment platform so please I hope to be respected by not having anyone flame me for my remarks.
Thank you
merlion says:
May 17, 2012 at 11:10 am (UTC 8)
‘Anon me’ is a more genuine character with cool temperament? Go back and read this thread from the day this clown made his appearance. He is at times offensive, abrasive and contradictory, deliberating rubbing people the wrong way. He talks about other people’s impending death in his examples. He is a sicko.
LMM, I agree, is steadfast. No problems there.
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 12:15 pm (UTC 8)
Dear merlion
You initially said on May 11, 2012 at 10:13 am to “Keep the comments rolling, the good, the bad and the ugly included”. Your next post questioned why I keept my comments rolling…?!?
I replied you in all fairness. You feel the example I used is inappropriate and I apologise for offending you. Pls read in my example how ridiculous I tried to make myself sound when I gave said example.
LMM – No direct answers from him/her.
merlion says:
May 18, 2012 at 12:17 pm (UTC 8)
You make much more than your fair share of bad and ugly comments but when it comes to personally offensive comments made in poor taste, you cross the line. Yes, you are ridiculous.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 2:58 pm (UTC 8)
Dear merlion
I quote from your post to me on May 13, 2012 at 10:11 am:
“You are now like a rabid dog that bites itself.”"You seem to have deep seated psychotic issues that need be urgently addressed. Go see a shrink. Goodbye, fool.”
This was posted in response to my reply to you.
Dear viewers – You may go back to page 12 to see the actual wordings on my reply as well as merlion’s and make a fair judgement on what merlion deems as personally offensive comments.
Anonymous me says:
May 17, 2012 at 11:02 am (UTC 8)
Dear all
As this is a new page on this thread, I would like to ask the 2 questions first put forward in mid-Apr 2012. Unanswered till now.
1. If goldco survives past May without significant increase in gold prices, what are the possible reasons? Is the initial view of such a deadline flawed?
2. Upon passage of 1 year, premium is recouped. Upon passage of 4 years, the gold purchased is “free”. Is this fact agreed upon?
Dear p c wong – Per your post on page 12 May 8, 2012 at 7:11 pm, whereby you predicted May collapse with 90% certainty and June collapse with 100% certainty, question 1 would include the month of June as well.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 6:00 pm (UTC 8)
No replies.
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 1:53 am (UTC 8)
SUCKER BETS
In Genting Casino, you can play the game of French Boule. Very simple rules. On the betting board, you can bet on a digit from 0 to 9 (I.e 10 digits). A golf ball is then rolled by a player onto a tray full of shallow numbered cups. The digit on which the ball finally rests is the winning no. A RM1 winning bet pays RM8, thus you end up with RM9. If you bet on every digit for a roll, you parlayed RM10 but you will get back RM9 on the winning no. Your guaranteed loss is therefore 1 for every 10 betted. In gaming theory, it is said that for this game, the casino has an advantage of 10%.
Suppose I set up an illegal French Boule game, and offers to pay only 6 for winning no. The house advantage is now 30%. Would you play this game with me? Suppose you ask your friend who you think is an investment expert, and he advises you that whether you should play or not depends on your risk appetite,and whether you have excess cash or not, I.e. if you like taking risks and you have plenty of spare cash, you should take part, after all, no risk no gain. Does not this kind of answer presume that whatever is the actual analyzed odds against you is not relevant? Can you see the stupidity of this advice? Even if you have plenty of spare cash, is it not the height of stupidity to throw it all away by taking gambles against hugely unfavorable odds??
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 9:47 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
My assumption here is that the illegal French Boule example you illustrated is meant to mirror the goldco.
In which case, the example provided is misleading and incomplete. You conveniently forgot to add that for every RM10 betted, house gives you RM7.50.
Regardless, to bet or not is up to the individual. To follow an advice or not is also up to the individual.
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 10:33 am (UTC 8)
How did you end up with the the 7.5?
The illegal French Boule game is proposed not to mirror any GOLDCO but to show that whether to take a gamble is NOT dependent on whether you have the excess cash BUT rather on whether the odds are favorable or not. Therefore if someone advises you to gamble if you have the excess cash (and not borrowing money, or using retirement funds) without bothering about whether the game is fair, is less than clever, to put it mildly. This is the
fundamentally flawed investment advice that some writers are flogging on this
blog. Very dangerous advice!! Are these writers GM2′s planted moles???
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 10:56 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
Lucky for me, I mentioned excess cash, risk-appetite, and that the final decision is up to the individual.
I did not mention favourability of odds, so I must not be one of the writers you mentioned.
If the example is proposed not to mirror any GOLDCO, it surely is irrelevant in this thread as it is about a completely different thing/topic. Pls repost it on the correct thread.
Thank you for the highly anticipated red herring.
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:11 am (UTC 8)
How did you end up with the 7.5 in the French Boule example?
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:19 am (UTC 8)
The relevancy of the illegal French Boule example is that GM2 investment is in the same category of “Sucker Bets”.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:34 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
7.5 came from the same dreamland where you got your 6.
Shall we all start posting irrelevant and misleading comments about foodstalls, soyabean companies, stationery shops, fish-sellers, hospitals, internet companies, telcos, transport companies etc? Surely they fall in the same category of “companies”?!?
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:57 am (UTC 8)
I am now incontrovertibly convinced of the veracity of the numerous epithets by various contributors on this blog, touching on the matter of the existence or the lack thereof of a certain greyish matter residing in the cranial cavity of certain posters purporting to be spewing out wisdom.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 12:09 pm (UTC 8)
Agreed. Unable to utilise said greyish matter to reply sensibly, such contibutors resort to postings such as can be seen above May 18, 2012 at 11:57 am.
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:15 am (UTC 8)
GOLDBEAM continues to post a Recommended Selling Price for gold on it’s members’ website, in clear infringement of the Competition Act 2010.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:38 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
Pls use all the sincerity in your heart to report them via email/phonecall to the authorities. It will be a great and herioc service on your part for all. Thank you
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 12:37 pm (UTC 8)
I have no investment in GM2 nor any knowledge of its internal workings nor any other relationship as staff or associate or consultant or friend or relation. Let anyone who has investments and/or is aggrieved by the operations of the company to do the necessary.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 2:35 pm (UTC 8)
Dear viewers
p c wong predicted 90% certainty of GM2 collapse in May and 100% certainty of collapse in June on page 12 May 8, 2012 at 7:11 pm.
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 4:16 pm (UTC 8)
I repeat my prediction:
GM2 fails in May : 90% probability
GM2 fails in June : 100% probability.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 4:42 pm (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
Tsk tsk. That is really impolite. To secretly change the wordings on your own prediction.
I hereby repeat p c wong’s own words from his post on page 12 on May 8, 2012 at 7:11 pm for the benefit of all viewers.
“I predict with 90% certainty that GM2 will collapse in May 2012. 100% that it will collapse in June 2012.”
Note how “certainty” has now been replaced with “probability”. Not so certain now?
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 5:02 pm (UTC 8)
You mean to say you do not understand that 90% probability and 100% probability is the same as 90% and 100% certainty??? I continue to be amazed by your singular lack of understanding of basic English!!!
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 5:28 pm (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
They may be the same meaning, but the spelling is different. Should this be attributed to your lack of sight?
How about the word “fails” and “collapse”? Are they the same meaning?
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 6:07 pm (UTC 8)
Oh, So now you are the resident expert on linguistics, semantics and etymology!!!
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:49 pm (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
I never claimed anything with regards to linguistics, semantics and etymology. Just more accusations from some posters like youself.
How about the word “fails” and “collapse”? Are they the same meaning?
When unable to answer, don’t forget to throw yet another red herring. All viewers and myself are expecting your next reply to this post to be a fishy one.
Suzie Wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 2:51 pm (UTC 8)
Anon me,
Once again, you fail to know the meaning of the word “prediction”! Need help?
Suzie wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 2:57 pm (UTC 8)
Anon me,
Once again you fail to know the meaning of the word “prediction”….need help?
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 3:46 pm (UTC 8)
Dear Suzie Wong
Pls explain your understanding of the word “prediction” and how I may have failed to know its meaning. Thank you
KLbull says:
May 18, 2012 at 3:17 pm (UTC 8)
Dear All,
The use of Bayesian probability affirms what my instinct tells me : this Anon schmuck is a provocateur from the goldco. No rational person can be so obstinately obtuse and defiant in the face of so much hostility unless he has a pecuniary interest in what he does. He arouses antagonism with practically every comment. The best thing to do is just to completely ignore him.
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 3:58 pm (UTC 8)
Dear All
My instincts tells me:
KLbull makes accusations without proof.
KLbull is correct in that much hostility has been shown to me.
Antagonistic reactions are aroused when posters are unable to answer my questions or when proven wrong.
Despite his best efforts and contrary to what he keeps advising others, KLbull is unable to ignore me.
Dear KLbull – Like I said many times, its like leading a bull by its nose ring. Prove me wrong by permanently ignoring me and do not post further comments/ditties/newsflash related to or insinuating me or my posts. Let’s see you even try. Cheerio
KLbull says:
May 18, 2012 at 4:12 pm (UTC 8)
You incredulously stupid greenish schmuck. Each comment, ditty, newsflash is to draw out your reaction. More evidence according to Mr Bayes Theorem. More concrete conclusions to be drawn. Have’nt you learned from your disastrous entanglement with the one you declared the WINNER?
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 4:29 pm (UTC 8)
Dear All
I guess at least some or all of my instincts were correct, particularly that with respect to KLbull. He certainly proved me right with regards on how to lead a bull.
Dear KLbull – You are oblivious of the disastrous consequences with respect to some of your own comments, ditties and “newsflashes”. Each one shatters your image, repute and credibility in the eyes of viewers (excluding some posters who require your help to throw red herrings all the time for them). Now onwards, each red herring you throw for them only serves to degrade their crebility in the eyes of viewers.
There was no entanglement (maybe “entrapment” as you put it yourself) with greenhorn. He/she asked me questions, I answered honestly, directly and without ambiguity.
Here bull… here bull… (tug nose ring).
p c wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 6:14 pm (UTC 8)
On the contrary, I find KLBull’s writing to be the epitome of poetic and literary virtuosity, always hitting the nail on it’s head. I take off my hat to him!
Anonymous me says:
May 18, 2012 at 11:57 pm (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
In that case, do take heed to his advice and ignore me.
Prove me wrong by permanently ignoring me and do not post further comments related to or insinuating me or my posts. Let’s see you even try. Cheerio
Dear viewers – Let’s see if we have another bull waiting to come out from its closet. Drumroll pls…
Lee Mei May says:
May 18, 2012 at 6:40 pm (UTC 8)
Dear All,
It is sad to see fellow forumers being lured by one with the sub-primary school kid mentality (my apologies to primary school kids who are above or way above this mentally handicapped deviant). Such deviant are to be pitied and not made use of as a subject for fun.
To me, if in spite of the facts and figures going against the survival of the goldco, in the current 6 months gold price reversal, if they do, it is a miracle and we should all celebrate that people who had been lured into the scheme can get a second chance. You may ask, what next? Well, if greed prevail and they are adults, then they have to face the consequences. Ours is not to condemn but to educate.
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 12:18 am (UTC 8)
Dear fellow forumers of Lee Mei May
It is indeed sad to finally see how LMM views the forumers who stick by him/her and throw red herrings for him/her consistently and without question.
1. He/She mentions “one” with sub-primary school mentality.
2. He/She goes on to admit that his/her fellow forumers were successfully lured by the “one” (as I have shown repeatly with the bull and its nose ring).
3. He/She is implying her fellow forumers have mentalities lower than the “one”.
4. These fellow forumers of his/hers are below this mentally handicapped deviant “one”. As a result, they were lured.
Dear viewers – Note how LMM’s thinly veiled show of sincerity and “pity” is betrayed by the usage of words like “mentally handicapped” and “deviant”. LMM advises all that such deviant are “are to be pitied and not made use of as a subject for fun”… I am sure you can see and judge for yourselves that that is exactly what LMM and his/her fellow forumers have been subjecting me to.
Dear Lee Mei May – Pls answer:
1. If goldco survives past May without significant increase in gold prices, what are the possible reasons? Is the initial view of such a deadline flawed?
2. Upon passage of 1 year, premium is recouped. Upon passage of 4 years, the gold purchased is “free”. Is this fact agreed upon?
Suzie Wong says:
May 18, 2012 at 10:19 pm (UTC 8)
KLBull n PC Wong,
Let not some poster’s contumelious remarks exasperate you. He/she seems hell-bent on obfuscating. Oh what an affront to the intelligence!!
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 12:24 am (UTC 8)
Dear suzie wong
Pls reply my posts dated May 16, 2012 at 11:36 am and May 18, 2012 at 3:46 pm. Thank you
Martin Lee says:
May 19, 2012 at 2:37 am (UTC 8)
Hi everyone, I would like to remind all to remain cordial in your discussions. No personal attacks please or I might have to start moderating some of your comments. Thank you.
p c wong says:
May 19, 2012 at 9:31 am (UTC 8)
GENNEVA GOLD INVESTMENT – THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL FACTS
It is a new page, and a recapitulation of the facts may be beneficial to newcomers to the blog:
#. GM2 sells gold at a 25% overprice to spot gold.
#. GM2 delivers the physical gold and still pays HIBAH of 3% pm (promo rate) on total investment, and agrees to buy back on maturity of term at the original buying price BUT paying of HIBAH and buy back is at GM2′s “discretion”.
#. For an investment, GM2 also pays 0.5% pm and 0.3% pm to consultant and senior consultant, respectively as commission.
#. GM2 transacted RM800m business in MTH of Jan 12 alone, BUT it is a SDN BHD with paid up capital RM50,000.
#. Its Bank Negara Licence is for “leasing and factoring” not exactly relevant for gold trading.
#. GM1 was raided by BNM and closed down, and was found to be short on the gold stock and cash shown in its books to the tune of tens of millions.
#. GM1 and its directors/controllers/masterminds are being charged in Court for illegal deposit taking and money laundering (see BNM website, Fraud Status Report).
#. The same masterminds are now operating GM2, but on Syariah platform.
#. Upon your investment, 80% used to pay for gold, thus 20% net cash left for GM2.
#. The 20% left to pay HIBAH 3%, commissions of 0.5 and 0.3% i.e. 3.8%pm or 45.6% pa.
#. Net cash held only 20%, thus the 45.6% pa payout represents 45.6 x 100/20 = 228% pa return on the 20% held. Thus to sustain the payouts, GM2 must generate a return of 228% pa on the net cash held!!!
#. If GM2 sticks to payout for ONE term of 3 mths only, and declines buyback, then GM2 has paid out 3.8% x 3 = 11.4%. Then there is sufficient cash left from the 20% to cover payout and squeeze out a profit of 20 – 11.4 = 8.6% !!
#. Several other goldcos with similar business model have been raided or closed down or absconded including TGL, GM1, SGV, Bao Hing Trdg, Bestino. When Bestino of Ipoh was raided by BNM, it was found that RM411,000,000 belonging to 6,700+ investors was missing.
#. If there is an unfavorable mismatch between the rate of redemptions and the rate of new sales, GM2 with negligible equity capital will immediately face a cash flow crunch as there is ZERO capacity for holding any significant stock of gold. Thus buybacks WILL be declined.
#. If buy backs are declined, the very raisin d’etre for the investment evaporates and customers are left holding grossly overpriced gold !!
#. After paying for the gold you wait some 3 weeks to collect the bar, and after you deliver gold at sell back you again wait some weeks for payment. If something happens to GM2 while you are waiting, your money is 100% gone !!
These are the facts. Readers are welcome to correct me where any aspect of them is wrong. Readers can also judge for themselves whether this investment scheme qualifies as a “sucker bet”.
#. GOLDBEAM association fixes the daily GM2 gold price, BUT the GM2 masterminds are on the committee and seem to control it.
Anonymous me says:
May 19, 2012 at 11:55 am (UTC 8)
Dear p c wong
1. Are potential buyers aware of discretionery clause? It is not mentioned.
2. If GM2 sells at 25% above spot price, why do they have 20% cash left after paying for the gold?
3. There is already existing 20% (or it is 25%), so to sustain payouts, you need to deduct this 20% from the 45.6% first. So (45.6%-20%) x 100/20 = 128%. They need to make 128% pa return on the 20% held. Do you agree this is correct?
4. If existing is 25%, they need to make 82.4% pa return on the 25% held. Do you agree this is correct?
As you indicated above, “Readers are welcome to correct me where any aspect of them is wrong”. I am seeking elaboration/clarification on some of the points you have recapitulated. Thank you
p c wong says:
May 19, 2012 at 2:24 pm (UTC 8)
If you had read the post more carefully (or maybe you deliberately choose to obfuscate), you can see that at #2, payment of HIBAH and buyback is at GM2′s “discretion”. Or are you going to tell me that “discretion” is spelled differently from “discretionary” or is in some other way different, therefore I need to be corrected??
If 1 KG gold iS 160,000, then 25% markup is 1/4 x 160,000 = 40,000. Therefore the investment is 200,000. But the markup as %age of total investment of 200,000 is 40,000/200,000 = 1/5 or 20%. !!! You really need to revise your high school MATHS before you ask such questions !!
Your other comments are too convoluted and complicated and I must admit I cannot follow your logic or calculation so I will leave it at that. But my above 2 comments may have already enlightened you as to the possible answers to your questions 3 and 4.
In writing this I must admit that I have tried to be respectful of Mr Martin Lee’s entreaty to all writers to maintain civility, courtesy and due respect to other writers.
Lee Mei May says:
May 19, 2012 at 9:51 am (UTC 8)
Dear All,
Please let us get back to the forum subject instead of responding and following the one with the sub primary school mentality who is hell bent to play games to distract all and sundry from really going into serious aspects of goldco scams. Thank you.
p c wong says:
May 19, 2012 at 10:20 am (UTC 8)
Well said !!!
p c wong says:
May 19, 2012 at 10:50 am (UTC 8)
Say GOLDBEAM price today is RM200/gm. You invest in 1 kg 999.9 gold and pays RM200,000 to GM2. The term is 3 months. Because of 25% overprice, the gold actually costs 100/125 x 200,000 = RM 160,000. After GM2 buys gold at RM160,000 and delivers it to you, GM2 is left with RM40,000. Note that GM2 does not need capital to operate as they are using your money you paid first to go and buy the gold. GM2 promised to pay you 3% hibah and 0.8% commissions to uplines, thus they pay out 3.8% on the RM200,000 (!!!) for 3 months totaling 3 x 3.8% x 200,000 = 22,800. Now they are left with cash of 40,000 – 22,800 = 17,200. Their office overheads and admin costs are not considered. Suppose you roll over after 3 months and there is no change in gold price i.e. still at 200/gm. Straightaway there is not enough money left in GM2′s hands to pay the next round of HIBAH and commissions !!! When asked how they sustain the scheme, the answer is some wishy washy “secret recipe; proprietary trading system; spot market hedging; blah blah blah !!!
In the world of high finance and Wall Street financial market stock, option and futures traders, if you can get a return of >20% pa ROI consistently over 4 to 5 years you will already be in the league of all time champions, of the likes of Warrren Buffet. Here we now have our homegrown financial prodigies in the incarnation of GM2 who deigns to achieve returns of 228% pa on the net cash handed in (the net cash after paying for the gold i.e., as gold does not pay interest or HIBAH to the holder), and there are no shortage of believers who are convinced that after 3 short years ( 3% x 36 > 100%), their investment is doubled !!!
Fools and their money are soon parted.
Lee Mei May says:
May 19, 2012 at 9:04 pm (UTC 8)
Dear PC,
Thank you for your enlightening write up.
Here i would like to add 2 observations :
1. UOB gold account
If a customer buys gold on Wednesday 16/05/2012 at USD1,540/0z this week and sells the gold end of the week at USD1,584/oz he has a gain of USD44/oz or RM4.40/gram. UOB spread is RM2/gm. The customer will make RM2.40/gram or 1.5% on his capital
No hazzle with holding physical gold and the attendent risks;
He/she has a safe haven in the account;
Best of all, he/she can go in or out of the market without being tied to a fixed tenure;
The risks associated with the price of gold declining is minimal as long as the holding power is there for the customer to go in and out at the opportune time of his/her choice;
No dependency on agents to handle your gold for you.
2. Goldbeam
Please note that Goldbeam is an inhouse price fixing mechanism of this particular goldco and the “association” only comes from the fact that ALL consultants and senior consultant must become member before they are eligible to their commission. The membership comprise of the goldco, its management and consultants nearly 5,000 of them who pays and entrance fee of RM25 and annually RM24
p c wong says:
May 20, 2012 at 2:53 am (UTC 8)
Can anyone enlighten me on what are the criteria to be satisfied before GM2 admits you as a consultant? How do you get promoted to senior consultant? Does it involve front loading, i. e. do you have to buy a certain minimum amount of gold to qualify?
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