The first talk at the Smart Expo that I attended was delivered by Saeed Shah, the sales director of Australian Wine Index (AWI).
Australian Wine Index is a fine wine broker which sources and purchases fine Australian wine for investors. They will also help to find suitable storage space for your wine, and advise you on different exit strategies when the time is ripe.
The reasons given by Saeed why we should invest in wine include:
- Wine has outperformed other investments.
- Recent UK report by Wine Asset Managers (WAM)
- Return of 16% over last 7 years
- Wine is a relatively low risk investment.
- Finite commodity
- Limited supply & growing demand
- There is huge growth potential.
- US no.1 wine consumption market in the world
- China 45% growth over the next 10 years
- Global demand
- Auction houses: Christie’s & Sotheby
- “Nuevo Riche” in emerging marketings like China, Russia, Eastern Europe
Wine is an area that I haven’t invested in before as it is something not close to my heart. Even though I was told that I don’t have to be a wine drinker to be an investor, somehow I feel that I would be at a disadvantage when it comes to the product knowledge.
So how exactly do you invest in wine? These are the steps shared with us:
- Selection
- Storage
- Trading
1) Wine selection
- Ratings (Critics) – RPJ’s Wine Advocate
- Regions – South Australia & Margaret River
- Vintage, Vintage and Vintage
- Research
- Strong ties with vineyards
- Build collections with intrinsic value
2) Wine storage
- Home storage – bad idea
- Perishable product
- AWI has a tie-up with Cougar Express Logistics whereby investors can store their wines and have their own individual account
3) Trading
- Exit strategies – Friends, collectors, merchants
- Auctions offer best option
I can’t really elaborate on the points given in the presentation by Australian Wine Index as I’m pretty much a novice when it comes to wine investment.
477 comments
antipasti says:
March 31, 2011 at 8:44 pm (UTC 8)
Can someone who can read mandarin check this website and see if there is any mention of the wine auction on 25th March 2011?
http://www.alltobid.com/guopai/
This looks like it is the Shanghai International Commodities Auction. If this assumption is wrong, appreciate if you could let me know too. Thank you.
Ann says:
April 3, 2011 at 3:57 pm (UTC 8)
Hi antipasti,
I check the website you provided, but no any news about wine acution…
EW says:
April 4, 2011 at 10:23 am (UTC 8)
Ok…..if anyone suspicion of AWI auction, u check to see if they did any lab reports for the wines they wanna auction in Shanghai. Because according to several merchants who export to China, they told me all the wines needed lab reports and mind u it’s 1 report per label. I bet there’s more than 100 labels AWI wanna auction off. Who’s going to pay for the reports? That’s the reason why many merchants only wanna sell wines to HK and let the HK merchants dealed with transhipment issue.
Jay says:
May 23, 2011 at 2:40 pm (UTC 8)
Actually there’s a news on the following link:
http://www.alltobid.com/guopai/contents/156/1465.html?__r=2046
However, I am still skeptical. AWI keep mentioning liquidation of the Portfolio will be easier if I owns a vertical, horizontal or whatever collection. Keep asking me to buy in more.
Honesty speaking, I rather trade. Full control on my side. Haha
Would like to check if there is anyone who managed to liquidate or sold off their wine collection in the Shanghai Auction?
Grape Hope says:
May 28, 2011 at 12:56 pm (UTC 8)
Nothing mention about wine auction.
Grape Hope says:
May 28, 2011 at 1:00 pm (UTC 8)
http://www.alltobid.com/guopai/contents/67/1404.html
The only mentioned about wine Auction is Chinese Aged Rice Wine Auction on 9 June 2011.
Robert says:
April 1, 2011 at 5:31 pm (UTC 8)
We have closed applicantions for wines to sell for the moment. We will advise you once more when we are ready to take on more stock for sale.
Regards
robert@wineexchangeasia.com
kk says:
April 1, 2011 at 7:52 pm (UTC 8)
Yes you better start looking for lawyers urgently because you are going to need a lot of legal help once you receive the writs from us. This is going to be a criminal case and we have a big enough group now to warrant an investigation. Please don’t go into hiding when the time comes.
Grape Hope says:
May 28, 2011 at 12:54 pm (UTC 8)
i had checked earlier with Shanghai Auction, they seem like don’t hv much biz. bond w AWI.
But AWI ever advertised and showed that they already had the understanding for the cooperation.
Let act together.
kk says:
April 1, 2011 at 8:12 pm (UTC 8)
AWI marketed its Shanghai auction on internet’s free press websites. If it is that authentic, why put it on dubious and unknown news sources?
http://www.free-press-release.com/news-shanghai-international-commodity-auction-guopai-signs-joint-agreement-with-australian-wine-index-1292588224.html
Unfortunately, some victims actually believed its authenticity because it looks like a real piece of news and ended up buying more wine from AWI. Got to take my hats off.
To show you how easy it is to put up a news, look at this http://www.free-press-release.com/news-shanghai-international-commodity-auction-guopai-signs-joint-agreement-with-australian-wine-index-1292588224.html
kk says:
April 1, 2011 at 8:13 pm (UTC 8)
Sorry I meant this.
http://www.free-press-release.com/news-australian-wine-index-shanghai-auction-1301659513.html
kk says:
April 1, 2011 at 8:16 pm (UTC 8)
I am forming a group of investors who believe they are scammed by AWI. The number of responses I have received is growing but the rate is not fast enough, I need more of you to join us. Regardless of whether the intention is to take action against AWI or to make plans for alternative exit strategies, none of these can work without strength in numbers. Join us to form a critical mass by going to this website http://australia-wine-index-fraud.blogspot.com/
Ann says:
April 3, 2011 at 4:11 pm (UTC 8)
Hi Kk,
i support what you have done against AWI. but can we take a legail method to sue AWI? Otherwise our portfolio can not be recovered…
Australian Wine Index Scam says:
April 4, 2011 at 1:59 am (UTC 8)
Australian Wine Index is a complete joke.
Grant Burge says:
April 4, 2011 at 7:38 am (UTC 8)
Agreed… and with alot of people’s money sucked and stucked in those wine. They sent those valuations reports with 10-20% percent increase a year, but yet cannot sell anything even at cost. It is that fishy.
If you want to talk to them, tell them you want to buy a few 100k of wine. I am sure you will be hearing from them real soon…not just one, but many of them will be calling you…
kk says:
April 6, 2011 at 8:37 am (UTC 8)
I have received news from a member of my group that AWI emailed him that the March auction has been postponed.
http://australia-wine-index.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=news&action=display&thread=20
Did anyone else received this email?
Ke says:
April 6, 2011 at 10:19 am (UTC 8)
Yes. I recieved the same mail.
Doulos says:
April 6, 2011 at 10:32 am (UTC 8)
Yes, I rec that email saying they can’t preceed at the moment due to regulatory in China and they are working at it and will inform us of a new date later.
They also invited me for a open communication session with AWI Managing Director, Andrew Bassett.
EW says:
April 6, 2011 at 2:43 pm (UTC 8)
Pls everyone, I cannot believe you all out there still believe in more of AWI stories. Just sell whatever you can asap if you want to get back your money. Full amount I doubt so, but certain amount for sure , maybe 50% . As I said earlier, auction wines in China need not only import papers, lab reports as well who’s going to pay for such lab reports.
WAKE FROM YOUR DREAM
JW says:
April 7, 2011 at 11:11 am (UTC 8)
Edward Davidson promised to schedule my wines for auction in June. He signed an agreement stating that in the event the auction falls through, AWI will purchase my portfolio and at certain agreed pricing and make payment by end of July. The agreement was printed on AWI’s letter head, with Edward’s signature and AWI’s company stamp. Now he’s denying he ever signed such an agreement and has fled to Shanghai. He’s handphone is no longer contactable.
lioninvestor says:
April 7, 2011 at 12:03 pm (UTC 8)
That sucks. Can that be taken as a case of cheating and reported to the police?
JW says:
April 7, 2011 at 2:00 pm (UTC 8)
Apparently the case has been taken up to Andrew and there’s going to be a discussion with them on Tues. We’ll see how things go. Hopefully I don’t have to turn things ugly with them.
Desmond, Bid for Wine says:
April 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm (UTC 8)
We have helped many ex-clients of AWI and UAG liquidate their wine holdings and continue to do so.
Desmond
Desmond@bidforwine.sg
http://www.bidforwine.sg
http://www.bidforwine.co.uk
Lawrence TH says:
April 14, 2011 at 10:15 am (UTC 8)
hi need some tips from wine expert here. Recently someone call me offering a fixed return of 12% in a year to buy french wines , they seems to be a reputable company as I have visited them in their office. Has anyone here came across this investment? please enlighten me on this issue. thanks alot
EW says:
April 14, 2011 at 11:01 am (UTC 8)
What’s the company? Anyway french wine eventhough the chances of profit is higher than all aussie wines. But still it totally dependent on wine critics and vintages. Mainly bordeaux I presummed. Eg. vintages like 07, most of the people who bought en premier did not made any money and some even lost money on it. Mainly because 07 is a water shed vintage. Burgundy and Rhone are a totally different story. The most highly profit vintage is the 08 which see some Chateaux went up more the 300% upon ep price. The next highly speculative vinatge will be the 10, but I doubt the price will open cheap.
So Lawrence, if you think of investing in wine, are you prepared to drink everything if they don’t sell or made any profit?
JW says:
April 14, 2011 at 11:16 am (UTC 8)
Till now I’ve not heard anything good about wine investments. If the french wine broker that you mention is in Tanjong Pagar, forget it. Their customers are in worse state than AWI. At worst case, at AWI anything happens we still can withdraw it and get ourselves drunk.
Not sure for other companies……mostly would be like the other wine brokerage that folded. All wines are considered the company’s asset and are auctioned off to repay creditors. End of the day you’ll be left with nothing.
By the way, heard of someone who invested in French wines and could not get his 5 digit investment back.
Lawrence TH says:
April 14, 2011 at 1:35 pm (UTC 8)
Dear JW and EW
Thanks for the info.
EW: the co is located in a high end shopping mall in orchard, they have nice office and i was impressed, but other then impressed, I still made up my mind to do my own research first before i invest in the fixed return of 12% a year. Do you think i can go ahead, am i safe?
Of course i cannot afford to drink them if the wines are not making money, but looking at the fixed return of 12% a year , i guess I do not have to drink them .
JW: thanks. Any advise on this co , will the investment be safe?
JW says:
April 14, 2011 at 2:36 pm (UTC 8)
Basically if the wine’s not under your name forget it. No one here has any idea about the company that you mention…..no track record not safe…..if they can’t give you an concrete exit strategy…not safe……really……I’m prepare to lose all my 5 digit with AWI. If you are not willing to lose. Don’t go ahead…..rule of thumb. Invest what you are willing to lose.
Lawrence TH says:
April 14, 2011 at 4:05 pm (UTC 8)
JW, thanks.The co seems to have 5 years in business. They used to be in tanjong pagar area , recently moved to orchard. As for exit strategy, they told me to sell back to them after 12 months and give me fixed returns , is this consider safe? I really dont know about what is safe or not , but the 12 percent fixed returns is rather tempting, it is even better then all the banks in singapore for fixed deposit.
The reason why I am asking is because I need some money ready for my wedding, so i need to ask around in this forum. Hope someone can give me more info on investing in wines.
Doulos says:
April 14, 2011 at 4:21 pm (UTC 8)
Don’t be tempted by the high return, is a jackup figures. I got stuck until now without been able to liquidate money for my wedding. Keep it in bank is safer since you need it for wedding. Wine investment is not as liquid as it sound and is not regulated so is a high risk investment.
Mummy says:
November 12, 2011 at 5:53 pm (UTC 8)
Don’t just trust in nice office. Profitable Group has a nice office in Tanjong Pagar and they were in business for a few years too.
I’ve been scammed out of a five-figure sum and recently I was trying to sell my AWI portfolio but the sales rep Charles refused to reply my email.
Now that I’m checking up on AWI then I realised I’m going to be scammed a 2nd time. This is really painful!!!!!
I suggest we should stay off all this unofficial investment business and just buy into stocks and shares directly or just stuff our pillow with our money.
Twice scammed by all these alternative investment and I’m not going to trust any of them.
In fact, I’m surprised that MAS is not actively regulating these investment vehicles. Our government regulate maid agencies. private education agencies and housing agents but these investment firms where people can lose up to $200k is left unregulated. Something is really not right.
And these scammers know that reporting to police also no use. After they shifted our money out, what can police help in? We still can’t get our money back.
Can someone please give me a glimmer of hope that I can get my 5-figure sum back from those wines????
Robert Rees says:
November 13, 2011 at 3:34 pm (UTC 8)
We have been helping a number of people sell their portfolios. If you would like to send me a schedule of what you own I would be happy to evaluate it for you.
Regards
Robert
Ex Employee says:
November 21, 2011 at 10:51 am (UTC 8)
You will never see a penny from AWI, it is all a rather large ponzi scheme covered legally by the local laws. The old MD has fled to Shang hi and the staff are slowly leaving. A closure is in sight. The best option is collectively head to the office and seek revenge behind closed doors.
If you are really interested in seeking revenge and or any money back let me know?
Ex Employee says:
November 21, 2011 at 10:55 am (UTC 8)
Unfortunately you will never see any money returned unless you collectively join forces and head down to the office before their planned closure. In their carefully planned ‘ponzi’ scheme they have drawn in a buy back option where they buy back the stock to stop the client screaming to the press or other potential clients.
There is one other option to consider, let me know if you are interested?
steve says:
January 9, 2012 at 5:16 pm (UTC 8)
Hi,
I have read your forum through AWI and I would like to talk to you on how can I help you.
Reach me in my mobile : + 65 96386916
Look forward to hear from you. I will be away from jan 16 to 28 2012. call me once you recieved.
grant burge says:
April 14, 2011 at 4:30 pm (UTC 8)
Hi Lawrence,
my opinion is do NOT take the risk…it is not worth it.
- you may not be able to afford to lose this money…it is for your wedding?
- ok… 12%, what if the company close shop on the 11th mth?? even the wine in your name, you may have to come up with more money to withdraw them (gst + alcohol tax)…
- yes, you may use the wine for your wedding dinner…but this is provided the wine is under your name in the warehouse, what if they are not?
- AWI in the past told me they can achieve 20% per annum, but in the end, at best, the 20% is on paper…. i offered them to sell at 20% loss, they also cannot do it… so, you still believe in 12% buy back? If yes, refer to #1…
- high returns comes with high risks… r u game to lose all?
- i am not saying this is likely to be ponzi or boiler room scam, but if it is too good to be true, it is very likely you will not see your money eventually…. why eventually? usually, to make it convincing, they may pay you 1st few times to get to ‘hooked’ big time….
I think it is better for your to FixD your money with bank and have a great wedding when the time comes…
rgds,
JW says:
April 14, 2011 at 5:31 pm (UTC 8)
I agree with Doulos and grant burge. Now that you mention that it used to be in Tanjong Pagar area, especially Tras Street, 100% hoax. You’ll NEVER get your money back. Not even a single cent. My friend was overcharged by them. They admitted it. Say will refund the excess….it never happened. DON’T take that risk though it’s very attractive. DON’T risk your money and marriage. Not point over ‘promised’ 12% returns. I totally agree with the illiquidity of wines. I’ve been in it for 8 years……one of the first few clients of AWI…..my client number is definitely somewhere near the top….look at my plight…..basically there’s no free lunch. Aren’t examples around and here enough to deter you? Make your choice, lose out on the possibility of making 12% returns (we too can’t be 100% sure that this isn’t a hoax) or lose all your investment/money, ruin your wedding and ruin your life. If you are prepared for the latter situation and want to take that risk by all means go ahead. There’s no one stopping you. After all it’s your money. The rest of us can’t make the decision for you.
Ex Employee says:
November 21, 2011 at 10:58 am (UTC 8)
DO NOT INVEST IN WINE IN SINGAPORE. IT IS ALL A SCAM !! I WORKED @ AWI FOR A PERIOD.
Lawrence TH says:
April 15, 2011 at 10:14 am (UTC 8)
Dear jw ,grant burge and Doulos
Duulos thanks and will talk to my girl friend about it.
Jw :You are right , the co used to be in tanjong pagar, can you tell me more about what happened to your friend and why didnt he go and report if they promised to refund and never happened?
although i have not yet invest in the 12% fixed return, but can i ask a few questions so that i will have a clearer picture,
1.what if i invest and by 12 months they did not pay me back the initial invetsment plus 12 percent fixed return which they promised?
2.Grant burge mentioned that what if the co close in 11th month, what can i do ?
3.does black and white means anything in wine investment
4.has anyone else been to the co other then me , it is rather nice and do you think anything will happen since they spend so much money in the office
5.I have read up so many commments about wine invetsment here, but why there isnt any government body who can do something about them
6.is guarantee returns safe
hope i can get more info from all investors
thanks and appreciate
EW says:
April 15, 2011 at 11:50 am (UTC 8)
Hi Lawrence,
No wines so far, guaranteed 12% fixed return. Yes, some do returned more than that, but only a handful of the top premium labels, mostly french, which most of these goes direct to the regular buyers year in and year out. It’s seldom flowed out of the market. Those you see in the markets are most likely 2nd or 3rd hand transaction done already. So if you think Australia wines can goes up so much, think again. In fact with the wines market so open up, you can look up the price online, there’s several online wine shops in Australia which are very reliable. In fact if you buy direct from them, you can get discount about 15% off from the retail value online for the tax etc. Also some provide free freight to Singapore when you buy beyond certain amount.
grant burge says:
April 15, 2011 at 10:40 am (UTC 8)
Hi Lawrence,
it is good that you are finding out more before ‘investing’.
2. When a company closes shop i am very sure you will not able anyway high up on the list of creditors… so what is your chances of recovering money?? close to zero.
3) black and white… u want to bring them to court if they dun pay? All the trouble, cost, mental of going thru?? When you can avoid it in the first place?
5) wine investment is not regulated…. government dun control….
6) who gurarantee? The company that does not honour the white and white or closes shop??
i was a victim of these wine investments…. still have a few boxes of the wine at home…. drinking them every now and then…
i think it is not worth the risks and your marriage for the 12% (that is if they materialised and realised… we are not talking about paper gain… )
grant burge says:
April 15, 2011 at 10:43 am (UTC 8)
corrections:
2. When a company closes shop, i am very sure you will not be anywhere high up on the list of creditors… so what is your chances of recovering money?? close to zero.
JW says:
April 15, 2011 at 10:48 am (UTC 8)
The fact that you are still asking means you have not really understood what all of us are saying. If you are impressed by their company go ahead…..Has it ever occurred to you where did they get their money from to do up such a posh office? Note: This is a rhetorical question. Look at the spa saga. Aren’t they done up well, didn’t they go on TV? Didn’t they have multiple posh chains in prime area? Finally what happened? You can still choose to believe what you see though, I can’t stop you from thinking so.
FYI, this form of investment is not regulated by MAS. If you ask why is the government not regulating, ask the gov. Don’t ask us. In fact even if the gov is involved, they can’t do much. It’s your investment decision. Why does the government have to be held for your wrong investment decision?
We were previously guaranteed but look where we are at now. We can go to court……then you got to chalk up extra for legal fees. Are you prepared to chalk up legal fees? Is the legal fees going to be worth it? Such cases can go for years. Basically if I’m going to court it’s no longer to get back what I invested. It’s to bring them down. Since I’m going down, might as well pull them together to keep me company. But even with all that said you still feel that it’s too good a chance to miss, no one can stop you. Make your choice, invest with the potential of 12% ‘guaranteed’ returns or lose it all. If it’s a risk worth to take for you, go ahead. We’ve already said our piece.
Lawrence TH says:
April 15, 2011 at 12:09 pm (UTC 8)
Dear All
Thanks , I guess I will not go ahead to invest with the fixed return, spoken to my girl friend, she told me there is no such thing as “guarantee return” no free lunch. She also told me that why dont the company keep the wines themselves and made extra 12% rather then giving the 12% to me.
I understood now, thanks all.
Eddie says:
April 15, 2011 at 12:51 pm (UTC 8)
Lawrence TH,
Why don’t u consider investing in Hyflux Pref Shares ?
These are “guaranteed” 6% returns. (They can’t pay ord shareholders till they pay the pref shareholders)
The subscription is on till next Wed 12pm. U can apply thru DBS or UOB internet banking.
Also, if you have at least 150k to invest, you might as well consider a commercial property. These are not subject to the existing housing rules and the yield for most commercials are close to 10%.
grant burge says:
April 17, 2011 at 12:06 pm (UTC 8)
Hi Eddie,
I am new to this, and thot this is what they say about pref shares.
the ”guaranteed” returns for the pref shares are not guaranteed if the company is not doing well, unfortunately.
http://www.martinlee.sg/preference-shares/
in order of ‘safety’, bonds->pref shares-> ordinary shares.
and there is implication on the pref share price when the interest goes up ( which is likely direction for the future)…
btw, for the 150k in commercial prop, most likely, there will be a loan to take, so the return may be lesser than 10% after deducting the cost of loan…. but surely a better investment than wine. But as they always said, location is key when it comes to property… residential or commercial.
have a great weekend.
rgds,
Pete says:
April 18, 2011 at 11:32 am (UTC 8)
Hi Lawrence
You are not the only one here received the call , i too, but told them off.
Julian says:
April 19, 2011 at 5:49 pm (UTC 8)
To many Ex AWI an existing wine brokers on here! Many of them chatting and cheating behind assumed names.
Watch out anyone who believes what they are reading.
Carry on and listen to your girlfriends advice there is no such thing a free lunch.
If you spent time on worth while due diligence no of you would have got burnt.
Tham says:
April 26, 2011 at 9:13 am (UTC 8)
Dear All
Look below , hope this will happen to wine investment too. companies in sg is doing fixed returns, guarantee returns..all need to be check.
SIAS aware of plight of Profitable Plot investors
Apr 25
SINGAPORE: Securities Investors Association Singapore (SIAS) said it is aware of the plight of people who have invested in various Profitable Plot schemes.
In a media statement, SIAS said it will conduct a dialogue session with concerned Profitable Plot investors at 7pm on May 28 to discuss possible action for investment recovery.
SIAS will also assist with legal counsel.
Land banking firm Profitable Plots Private Limited is currently under probe by the Commercial Affairs Department.
Previous reports said that investors have put in some S$23.5 million in the company’s products.
About 4000 such investors who bought the products expecting high returns are now at risk of losing their money.
Some investors have alleged that the risks of the investments were never fully explained to them
Choi says:
May 3, 2011 at 4:34 pm (UTC 8)
At this present time , I cant believed people still goes into “guarantee return” ” fixed return”,investment, grow up guys.
Jay says:
May 23, 2011 at 2:45 pm (UTC 8)
Guarantee return have! Why dun have. Only thing is lesser then inflation lor. Like 0.125% pa that kind of stuff. Its guaranteed! LOL
alex says:
May 25, 2011 at 2:38 pm (UTC 8)
Any AWI investors have already signed the Auction Authorize Letter for the Shanghai Auction held in August?
Invest says:
May 30, 2011 at 1:43 pm (UTC 8)
I am having problem with getting money from Premium Liquid Assets , anyone else?
so1trg says:
May 31, 2011 at 4:18 pm (UTC 8)
Hi Invest,
I did managed to get back my investment monies with profit from PLA. However I was very careful with them wanting to exit at the first possible instance.
I bought the 08 En-Primeur and exited last year Nov 10.
They are a bit slow, maybe you want to be a little patient with them.
Just to add that when I exited they asked me if i was interested to invest in their “Fixed Deposits” investment type in their En-primeur 10.
Also I noticed throughout 2010, they were hawking some kind of “collective investment schemes” with their wine. Bundling different wines together in a fund or something.
Invest says:
June 1, 2011 at 9:04 am (UTC 8)
my payment is over due by 12 weeks. many calls , no answer , broker no reply no answer. anyway i have made a police report and to commercial affair department. it does not matter to me anymore. let the CAD handle.
Ann says:
June 29, 2011 at 4:18 pm (UTC 8)
Have you got any reply from CAD? Will it be useful?
winebuyer says:
June 9, 2011 at 12:56 am (UTC 8)
Hi Invest
I have bought wine from PLA myself in HK, is there any way to verify that the wine my certificate represents really exists and belongs to me? Are you in Singapore?.
PLA_BadNews says:
June 9, 2011 at 12:53 pm (UTC 8)
I heard, and I’m sorry, that PLA is effectively bankrupt. Staff haven’t been paid for two months, high level executive went on holiday never to return, and people (like “Invest”) are filing police reports.
PLA SCAM says:
June 16, 2011 at 8:18 pm (UTC 8)
they are a SCAM. everyone report to CAD in Singapore if you have not heard from PLA in the last few weeks.
TC says:
June 17, 2011 at 10:36 am (UTC 8)
PLA HK office in police probe.
http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20110617/1706HNP014.pdf
Robert Rees says:
June 22, 2011 at 11:42 am (UTC 8)
We are currently buying Kilikanoon 2003 vintage wines. Please contact me if you have any of this stock.
derek says:
June 24, 2011 at 9:39 pm (UTC 8)
have 2005 kilikanoon boxed flagship collection and 2005 torbreck run rig shiraz viognier
Robert Rees says:
June 26, 2011 at 10:43 am (UTC 8)
We have interest in those. Please email me at robert@wineexchangeasia.com to arrange an evaluation.
Ann says:
June 29, 2011 at 4:24 pm (UTC 8)
Hi guys,
AWI has changed the procedure to withdraw the wine in storage. I got an email saying that we are allowed to take out our wine only “assisted” by AWI’s staff. How rediculous! Has anyone bring out his/her wine from Menlo recently?
Ann says:
July 1, 2011 at 3:16 pm (UTC 8)
Does anyone receive call from AWI recenty by saying ” eveything is in hand, the China auction is in process and the result will be out on August. U will get your wine back” sth like that.
JW says:
July 1, 2011 at 5:38 pm (UTC 8)
You mean you received a call from them/who? What’s your portfolio like? Have they sent you documents to sign to authorize sales of your wines at Shanghai? Did they mention anything about what happens when the auction was unsuccessful for 3 times and attempts to sell locally in China fails? Will the wines still belong to you and what’s the storage, insurance, bank transfer charges like? What happens when all else fails and your wines are already in Shanghai?
Marcus says:
July 3, 2011 at 12:09 pm (UTC 8)
Hi, I invested in AWI. When I want to trade them, there need me to invest more inorder to go into NOV China Auction. Is there any condidtion in order to fgo into auction?
EW Yeo says:
July 3, 2011 at 3:22 pm (UTC 8)
Previously was Aug now Nov? Pls this will not happened, why u still believe in them?
Kk says:
July 3, 2011 at 3:37 pm (UTC 8)
Their first auction is still on Aug. Nov is going to be their 3rd one.
derek says:
July 8, 2011 at 1:21 pm (UTC 8)
be it 1st /2nd or 3rd auction.more important is whether anyone had successufully allocated for any of the said auction and wat kind of procedure that awi have adopted?
Bid for Wine Singapore says:
August 4, 2011 at 1:50 pm (UTC 8)
We are buying Torbreck ‘The Factor’. Please contact us if you have any in stock.
Thanks.
derek says:
August 4, 2011 at 4:42 pm (UTC 8)
have 2005 Torbreck run rig shirza vionger. may reach me at 96793689
Ann says:
September 9, 2011 at 4:54 pm (UTC 8)
R u the trader? What is the valuation?
Rob says:
August 29, 2011 at 9:37 pm (UTC 8)
I see that the 1st auction was on Sunday (28 Aug). Downloaded the catalog and the reserve prices are twice what you find on any wine search website. It would be nice to see the results.
swat says:
August 30, 2011 at 12:45 pm (UTC 8)
Most of the wines are not sold in the auction. Wonder what’s the next step AWI will take to get them sold off.
Ann says:
September 9, 2011 at 4:26 pm (UTC 8)
what is the result for China auction? Anybody knows?
Doulos says:
September 9, 2011 at 5:09 pm (UTC 8)
Didn’t u rec their email? The auction result is here http://www.australianwineindex.com/auction.html.
Out of the 93 lots, only 16 lots are sold. So what do u think?
kk says:
September 10, 2011 at 12:31 pm (UTC 8)
At least the 16 lots got sold had at least 10% to 60 % profit.
K Tan says:
September 10, 2011 at 5:30 pm (UTC 8)
So what happens to those not sold?
Lim eric says:
August 30, 2011 at 9:50 am (UTC 8)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1326741302120&set=a.1313695055972.43748.1638550283&type=1&theater
just click or copy/paste then do the detective work
photo > person > now working for > connection???
take a look through all those pics
Mike says:
September 2, 2011 at 11:32 am (UTC 8)
I have been asking for my wine to be divested. But AWI kept avoiding the matter.
Give Up says:
September 2, 2011 at 12:37 pm (UTC 8)
I tried over a two year period asking the crooks at AWI to liquidate my wine since 2007, and they have never been able to do it. And today they just sent us email asking for more money to pay for continued storage of the wines they have been unable to liquidate.
Ann says:
September 9, 2011 at 4:53 pm (UTC 8)
Any updated result from China Auction?
JW says:
September 9, 2011 at 6:34 pm (UTC 8)
Go here to see the results of the auction and judge for yourself. Anyone who went for the auction?
https://live.alltobid.com/BidWeb/Auction/AucLotList.aspx?AuctionId=2720067742
Dunavox says:
September 14, 2011 at 2:12 pm (UTC 8)
Now, they want to charge storage fees. I had invested since 2004 and since they could not divest my investment, they had waived the storage fees. They are not willing to do it but they still cannot divest my investment. Sigh…
Crap investment.
Robert Rees says:
November 14, 2011 at 9:08 am (UTC 8)
I am buying Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz in case you are holding this.
Robert
jay says:
September 23, 2011 at 4:21 pm (UTC 8)
Hello All, I am looking for some wines (prefer french fine wines) for export.
If you have wines to sell, kindly email me at wines4wines@gmail.com
Thanks all
Robert Rees says:
November 12, 2011 at 11:49 am (UTC 8)
I am looking for up to 15 dozen Fox Creek Res Shiraz 2005.
K Tan says:
November 13, 2011 at 8:12 am (UTC 8)
Robert,
I understand from a few friends that you are helping to sell wines of AWI investors. Unfortunately you are doing it at dirt cheap prices.
As a consequence you are doing a disfavor to all the AWI wine investors out here! I hope you can be more considerate in your dealing as you are also killing your own business in the long term!
Good luck
Robert Rees says:
November 14, 2011 at 9:03 am (UTC 8)
I am distressed to hear that anybody would think that we are doing a “disfavor” to anybody wishing to sell their wines. I cannot comment on how much you may have paid for your wines, but what I can assure you and anybody who wishes to sell their wines through our sales portal that we utilize many different global and domestic pricing models in order to arrive at an evaluation of an accurate and efficient price and in agreement with the seller, we proceed to exit them from their holdings quickly and effectively, with rapid and accurate payment.
We have serviced many grateful people and as a consequence we do not advertise the service and rely on referrals only. With this commitment to service and action, we have sold thousands of dollars worth of wines which otherwise would still be gathering dust in expensive storage.
I wish you good luck with your endeavors and reaffirm our commitment to helping those who otherwise would be stuck with an asset which cannot be liquidated.
Diane says:
February 18, 2012 at 8:31 pm (UTC 8)
I believe those people who sold to you are in a desperate situation. They are totally frustrated with Wine Investment that they just want to get out of it and forget it.
It is true that you are helping them but on the contrary, you are spoiling the market with your “dumping” at dirt cheap prices.
As such, by helping a few desperate investors, you are depressing the prices in the market and making the situation worst of for existing wine investors to exit.
If you want to help, please help to export to bigger market in US or China etc rather than dumping the wines in the little Singapore market.
alex says:
December 7, 2011 at 12:31 pm (UTC 8)
Any AWI investor manage to liquidate their wine through other sources? What is the procedure and any additional cost incurred?
Robert Rees says:
December 8, 2011 at 11:07 am (UTC 8)
We have been assisting many people to sell their wines. If you would like to send me your list of wines I will do an evaluation for you. Our next sale of investment wine stock is in February.
Andrew Tay says:
December 9, 2011 at 1:32 am (UTC 8)
Robert, can u let me hv yur email address?
Robert Rees says:
December 9, 2011 at 11:12 am (UTC 8)
You can reach me on robert@wineexchangeasia.com
Diane says:
February 18, 2012 at 8:24 pm (UTC 8)
Be prepared to make a big loss via Robert. He is making big bucks through huge volume. In fact its “dumping” at your expense.
Robert Rees says:
February 18, 2012 at 12:01 pm (UTC 8)
We are currently buying the following labels:
Katnook Odyssey (Particularly looking for 2001)
Elderton Command (Particularly looking for vintages older than 2000 and 2005/6)
Charles Cimicky Reserve Shiraz 2004/5
Diane says:
February 18, 2012 at 8:25 pm (UTC 8)
Can you publish your offer price here.
Henry says:
February 20, 2012 at 4:42 pm (UTC 8)
Diane,
The price of Robert’s are the mkt price of the wines. Of cos after deduction of the his commission, you’ll find that you are getting less back. In fact all merchants charges a commission or transaction fee, even auction house do. Just in case you don’t know, auction house like sotheby’s they charges something like 22% + auctioneer fees. Fyi, those wines Robert mention, cannot even get into Sotheby’s auction. Mainly, in Sotheby’s auction only top french do sell in such auction. Well if you think that holding back your stock from AWI, the price will go up, then good luck to you. Fyi, buyers of these wines, want them to be provenance proven. If the storage condition are not optimum, you can kiss all your money good bye.
Anyway, why not drink them all, yourself? Most of the AWI stocks are good wines except they are not the investment quality.
Robert Rees says:
February 20, 2012 at 9:19 am (UTC 8)
Hi Diane
Please contact me at robert@wineexchangeasia.com and I will be happy to provide you with an evaluation for the domestic sale of your wines.
Robert Rees says:
February 20, 2012 at 10:50 am (UTC 8)
In arriving at an evaluation of a market price that enables the client to exit his/ her holding, we evaluate the wine’s prices on a global basis and arrive at a figure that represents the ability to sell – rather than sit at a retail price indefinitely. We are not a retailer. We are a platform that liquidates wines.
The client is totally free to accept or reject such an evaluation.
As to export to America and China, I am not sure how you have been advised, but the paperwork required to achieve this is very complex,time consuming and expensive. I understand that some people are doing this already through their original brokerage house and I encourage you to do the same.
Our charges for the sale of wines are 15%, which again surprises me to read your allegation that Wine Exchange Asia is making “big bucks”. I would imagine that as an experienced investor – you expect to pay some kind of cost in order to sell an asset. Once again, you are entitled to utilize our services or not.
I wish you well with your endeavors.
Robert
Diane Saw says:
February 21, 2012 at 7:30 am (UTC 8)
The point is the way you are pricing the wine, you are depressing the market prices here and blocking the exit of investors through the normal channels. Its like an “illegal hawker” or “pirate taxi operator” in pricing their services. I am sure you have made many wine retailers and wholesalers unhappy by destroying the expected market prices of the wines.
I hope you will have a taste of your own medicine soon. Would be happy to see you packup and retire.
Here I plead with all wine investors not to sell via your channel in order to protect the price and interest of fellow investors. In addition, we should warn new potential wine investor not to fall into the same situation as us. With that, hopefully the supply in Singapore can be contained and therefore the price as well.
Henry says:
February 21, 2012 at 2:58 pm (UTC 8)
You can plead…but who’s going pay for their storage incurred? The thing is the storage here are so high that it’s appreciating much more than all those wines the people here are selling. In fact, I know some of the wines at cellardoor are selling about the same price as Robert is selling. In case you never read what I posted before, those wines people are selling are just not simply speculating grade. If those were Lafite, Latour, DRC etc….those price Robert is offering, I would tell those people who selling to him, not to sell him. In fact I would offer double what he’s offering.
Bassett's belly says:
February 21, 2012 at 2:56 pm (UTC 8)
Dear oh dear Diane. Its time you faced the hard truth. You paid well over the actual value of your wine and are refusing to admit to yourself you made a poor financial decision. You honestly believe that your wine will reach a market value similar to the price you paid?
The reason Robert sells the wine at the price he does is because thats the market rate for this wine, not the overinflated price you paid for it.
There are no smart wine investors, its a sham. But the less stupid ones are the ones who are offloading their stock while they can or at least drinking it.
Some of the wines that AWI sold are coming into their prime now, with your strategy they will at some point be past their best and even harder to shift.
Sell now while you can for whatever you can. You will never ever make a profit off wine investment in Singapore.
Your strategy of expecting people not to sell or demanding that potential investors do not buy just so you can try and artificially inflate the value of your own overpriced portfolio is almost as ridiculous as the amount you paid for the wine in the first place.
Wake up and smell the coffee Diane.
Henry says:
February 29, 2012 at 12:30 pm (UTC 8)
eh…..wine investment does made profit, but not from aussie wine.
eddie says:
February 28, 2012 at 12:52 pm (UTC 8)
Any AWI investor contacted by Jeremy Brown from Provenance Global? He claim to be a fine wine broker and is able to help AWI customer to sell off their wine.
Anybody has engaged his service?
Distressed says:
March 12, 2012 at 7:18 am (UTC 8)
I received his mail recently. May want to see if there is a collective few who can engage them as a group than individually…it is unfortunate that I lost my confidence in the ability to sell my wine from AWI long ago….
Henry says:
March 13, 2012 at 11:45 am (UTC 8)
Depending on what you have. Penfold Grange, Hill of Grace, Chris Ringland should not be a problem selling with a good price, but the rest. Good luck to you.
Actually it’s also depending on what’s the price you looking at? If you want your cost, you can forget abt it. No one would pay such price. Even at cost you should get less after deduction of GST+Tax+commission etc.
norman says:
May 15, 2012 at 12:14 pm (UTC 8)
Any outcome from Jeremy Brown, Provenance Global?
AWI Victims says:
March 15, 2012 at 11:52 pm (UTC 8)
Dear all, Robert Rees is not sincere in helping people. He is only interested in particularly. If you ask about other range of wines, he will never reply your emails.
MummyJY says:
March 16, 2012 at 6:58 am (UTC 8)
To be fair, Robert is running a business and not a charity. If he takes on wines that he can’t sell at the moment, he will be incurring storage cost for nothing. And if Robert doesn’t take the wine at the moment, it can only mean that there’s no market for it so we had been double scammed by AWI, who didn’t sell our wine as promised, and didn’t sell us wine that is in demand. So, our anger should be directed rightfully at AWI, and ourselves for not doing enough research to fall for such scams.
In fact, AWI had the cheek to call me to sell me more wines, when I put in a request to withdraw my current stock a few days back. Of course I gave that trader, Tom, some advice, but nicely though as I don’t want to fall to the same low level as them.
And some more bad news, to withdraw the wines from their warehouse, I have to pay duty and GST and they claimed it worked out to be about $14/bottle. I told them to give me a breakdown how they arrived at that figure as it seems double compared to the formula I retrieved from the Customs website. I’m still waiting for a reply from them to see what exorbitant figure they are going to quote. So see, it’s triple scammed on silly me.
I am definitely going to lodge a police report, though my police friend said that I have no case, since it is a business transaction I had entered into willingly, to buy wine from someone selling it, and who didn’t state in black and white that they will in return sell it for me, only through lots of verbal promises. Seems like AWI covered their bases well, so perhaps all our brains here could work to see if there are loopholes where we can get back at them. I think that is more productive and could help to prevent other innocent people from getting scammed.
And I am going to make noise to MAS (not sure how yet) too about why they are allowing more and more of such scam companies with no sustainable business model to go around touting that they are investment companies able to make good returns. Gold now seems to be the new vehicle so hopefully none of us here has gone on to invest in companies claiming that they can give interest on gold.
Surely as a regulator MAS could do something about this, just like how other government agencies are regulating all property agent firms and the private schools and the maid agencies. Simply lazy and lack of rigour to say that we should check their website for their Investor Alert list, which only includes companies which had already scammed. I always thought that prevention is better than cure?
I am treating this as really an expensive lesson learnt and there’s no one to be blamed, except myself and AWI.
Henry says:
March 16, 2012 at 11:57 am (UTC 8)
You guys/gals must know a lot of AWI labels cannot sell at all? Of course Robert is not going to offer you anything, if he offered you too low, you felt insulted, too high no one would buy from him.
Just curious what does everyone have and what’s the price you guys wanna sell? You can email me? If not too much quantity I can ask around.
Robert Rees says:
March 17, 2012 at 10:20 am (UTC 8)
Dear “AWI Victims”
I find your comments flabbergasting. You somehow seem to have mistaken my offering to help people sell their wines as some sort of philanthropic gesture where I am going to sell everything you own at the price you want.. I am receiving around six new sellers per week asking for assistance. The time taken to evaluate each application is very long, and it may come as a surprise to you but the sale of secondary market wines is not the core platform of our business. We sell commercial wines at bargain prices every single day. I do not know who you are as you do not actually mention that, but I can only assume that you have been one of these sellers. Some people own thousands and thousands of wines needing evaluation and we apply the same global price evaluation approach to each and every one of them.
In order to speed up the process for the more impatient of people, I give them the most recent trading prices for the wines which i think have the best chance of selling rapidly, and then of they are interested in taking the process further i evaluate their wines using the method above. It seems to me that you are one of those.
It is now more than obvious that not all of these investment wines have any hope of garnering any kind of return and in fact I would say that I have not seen a new or different wine from these sellers for six months. Many are now approaching a stage of maturation where they are going to fall away and be undrinkable. I have seen a lot of this already. This means that if I am not responding to your demand to evaluate every wine, I have either tried and failed to sell a particular wine, I just have too much of it available right now, or the wine is past its drinking age and therefore of zero value to my clients.
If you do not like the level of service I am giving – you are doing nothing more than harming others chances of getting out of this mess by denegrating what help I am able to give through Wine Exchange Asia. You are taking your anger and frustration out on the wrong person – you would be well served thinking about where you bought the wines and how those particular people are moving to assist you instead. Your allegations of insincerity could not be more misguided.
AWI Victims says:
March 17, 2012 at 3:00 pm (UTC 8)
And we definitely agreed with what DIana Saw says…
We have not even got the service from you. Just asking around for quote. And by the rate of you promoting, it will goes no where…
AWI Victims says:
March 17, 2012 at 2:48 pm (UTC 8)
Roberts Rees, what we meant is that you simply do not display the courtesy to reply people’s email. living people in the air. if you cannot sell our wines, please do say so. we are not angry but you attitude display over here is simply too reactive.
If you are confident of your service to people, you would not have been so reactive.
Basset's belly says:
March 17, 2012 at 3:21 pm (UTC 8)
Oh for the love of god what is it with you people? Can’t you just admit you were stupid when you bought this wine. Its not Robert’s responsibility to get you and Diana out of the mess you created for yourself. he doesnt have to reply to your emails which no doubt complain about the prices he can see it for.
Robert is offering a service which benefits himself as he is in business for HIMSELF. He is confident that he can sell the wines that people want at the price people will pay. If you bought the wrong wine at a ridiculous price because you did absolutely no research yourself then YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME.
If you have wine that Robert can sell and are willing to let it go at a price he can sell it for then let him know. If not, stop being a poor investor wasting a successful businessman’s time.
AWI Victims says:
March 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm (UTC 8)
@ Basset’s belly AH….. benefits himself AS HE IS IN BUSINESS HIMSELF. MORON OR IDIOT LIKE YOU CAN ONLY WIRTE THINGS TO CHEAT PEOPLE EVEN FURTHER…
IF U HAVE CLEAR CONSCIENCE, PLEASE DO NOT APPEAR HERE.. DUMB ASS~~~
AWI Victims says:
March 17, 2012 at 5:46 pm (UTC 8)
@ Basset’s belly for the love of GOD somemore…. using the name of GOd in vain.. you will have to be accountable of what you say…..
SUCH LOWY IDIOTIC SCUM !!!! PLS F OFF IF YOU HAVE NO SPECIFIC SOLUTION ..
Basset's belly says:
March 17, 2012 at 7:14 pm (UTC 8)
Ok, lets get a few things straight.
Firstly, as previously said you only have yourself to blame for accepting AWI’s offer of wine at the price they stated. YOU did not do any research. YOU agreed to enter into the agreement, YOU paid for the wine so YOU are to blame for getting yourself into this mess. NO one put a gun to your head and made you buy it at the absolutely ridiculous price you did.
Robert is not selling wine to get you out of this mess YOU have got yourself into. He is in business to make money for himself. Everyone who runs a business is in it to make money for themselves. If you and him can come to an arrangement that is MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL (meaning it benefits both of you) then by all means do so. If he doesnt want to buy your wine its because the wine YOU bought has none or very little value on the open market because YOU failed to do your own research.
Next, I hate to be the one to break this to you but ‘God’ doesn’t exist. Never has done, never will do. So if I want to use the lord’s name in vain I can do with absolute assurance that nothing whatsoever will happen to me.
Did you pray that god would come to your rescue and save your hilarious embarrassing wine portfolio? I’m betting your prayers wer not answered. He never answers prayers because he doesn’t exist. if he did he would be responsible for children dying of cancer, people burning to death, war, rape, torture etc. Why on earth would you want to believe in something that causes all of that, let alone ‘worship’ it?
Now, my advise to you would be to accept that YOU made a mistake buying wine without doing any research then accept any price you can for it and accept it gracefully.
Then with what little money you get back invest in some anger management lessons. Your comments this afternoon are nothing short of an embarrassment, as is your grasp of the English language.
AWI Victims says:
March 17, 2012 at 5:52 pm (UTC 8)
@ Basset’s belly AND HEY PLS MIND YR OWN BUSINESS… we NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PRICES… SO PLEASE STOP ACTING HERE IF YOU ARE ROBERT REES YOUR SELF…
AWI Victims says:
March 17, 2012 at 5:36 pm (UTC 8)
Basset’s belly PLEASE SHUT YOUR MOUTH IF YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO SAY. AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. BUSY BODY CRUDE ASS!!!! WE ARE NOT STUPID!!!
AH.. YOU MUST BE ONE OF ROBERTS PEOPLE!!!!!! SO STOP APPEARING HERE IF YOU HAVE NO SOLUTION FOR PEOPLE.. IDIOT!!!!
AWI Victims says:
March 17, 2012 at 6:01 pm (UTC 8)
People here again… DON’T BE DUPED BY THIS Robert Rees or the idiot Basset’s belly.
They are the same people here creating trouble. The good thing is we never ask him to sell our wines.. We got a Far better offer than his.. and exit real FAST…
Please do not be duped again..
Basset's belly says:
March 17, 2012 at 7:21 pm (UTC 8)
Someone wo buys australian wine at a vastly inflated price because he did no research and then can’t sell it leaving himself with a catastrophic loss is in no position to call anyone an idiot.
Basset's belly says:
March 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm (UTC 8)
So let me get this straight. One minute you are crying because Rober itsn’t ‘helping’ you when its not his just to help naive people who don’t research their investments, and now you are telling us you got a ‘far better offer’ and have sold your wine.
Sweet baby Jesus! You’re an even worse liar than you are investor and that’s saying something!
Ann says:
May 8, 2012 at 4:50 pm (UTC 8)
@AWI victim: how did you manage to sell your wine? anyone interested?
Basset's belly says:
March 17, 2012 at 7:29 pm (UTC 8)
Someone wo buys australian wine at a vastly inflated price because he did no research and then can’t sell it leaving himself with a catastrophic loss is in no position to call anyone stupid.
Robert Rees says:
March 17, 2012 at 7:52 pm (UTC 8)
I am not interested in justifying what I do any longer in this forum. You will not be receiving any further responses from me here. Those who wish to contact me are free to do so. I wish you well.
Diane Saw says:
March 18, 2012 at 5:29 pm (UTC 8)
Robert,
Before you started your underpricing of the AWI wines in the local market, I was able to sell the Molly Dooker Carnival of Love to a local wine shop for more than $200 per magnum bottle but recently you destroyed the whole market and I would be glad if I get anything above $150 now. Just an example of how you have destroyed the wine market prices.
You wrote in your email that “This means that if I am not responding to your demand to evaluate every wine, I have either tried and failed to sell a particular wine, I just have too much of it available right now ……………” I have already said that you are “dumping” the wine in such a small Singapore market, which of course will reach saturation in no time. This “dumping” business is OF COURSE NOT SUSTAINABLE.
I have told you that if you are really helping the desparate AWI investors, you should look into exporting into a bigger market. This of course is not easy but I understand that there is someone who is trying to do it now. I hope he will be successful and bring hope to the others – he makes money and AWI investor may make or loose but as bad as now.
Please try dumping your commercial wines in the market and have a taste of your own medicine. Tell me, if you loose money in your business using the same strategy, is it due to the excessive price of the wholesaler or is it your own misdeed that depress the market price?
I am glad that finally you have make a committment not to solicit here and leave alone the AWI victims here. This is very much appreciated and please don’t come back to the forum as “Henry” or “Richard”………………
Diane
Message to “totally desparate” AWI investor:
The current situation that we have arrived at is a total destruction of the wine prices for the wine that we are holding. Just a simple logic, how much wine can be absorbed by the local market? So its simple economics, if demand disappear, what price can you sell and you can see here that people are not receiving reply to their request to sell and people using scarecrow tatics that wine has turned bad. Withdraw your wine and drink for yourself to know the truth.
The only way out is liquidation has to be through a bigger market elsewhere. I understand someone is working on it and I wish him success and brings hope for AWI investors.
Henry says:
March 18, 2012 at 11:39 am (UTC 8)
I see that, there’s a heated arguments here since the 15th. Well this is a buyer and seller market. “AWI victims” if you have a better alternative than Robert Rees, why don’t you share it here?
People get into AWI investment mostly are selfish because in the first place. They’ll afraid that by letting too many people into this, will eat up there profit so most of them never ask or don’t bother to ask, they believe everything they see from the chart.
To share a story， I got a call from a sales from AWI some years back. Asking me to buy some of the wines from AWI. I told the sales, aussie wines price don’t fly. The sales reply to me, ” Oh so you know abt wines, yup the price don’t really go up. Thks.” He put down the phone and I never heard from him again.
Anyway to those bought AWI wines, don’t get into another scheme by buying more from any brokers just that he/she tell you they can get rid of your AWI stocks.
I said this before and will said this again. Aussie wines are good but they are simply not investment grade wines. No matter what price they promised you, it’s all fake. Free storage? It’s all in the cost already.
I got friend who’s also helping people getting rid of AWI stock told me that many of these people does not wanna face up to the reality that their wines are really not as worthy as they were promised by AWI.
Diane Saw says:
March 18, 2012 at 5:42 pm (UTC 8)
Henry,
Your statement “Aussie wines are good but they are simply not investment grade wines” has been repeated. Please confirm that you standby your statement?
Upon your confirmation, I am going to forward your message in this forum to the Australian High Comm, Trade Secretary and also all the Wine Export Associations in Australia.
If you are right, the outcome could be good evident for all AWI investor for any “misrepresentation” by AWI.
By the way, in what professional capacity or qualification are you making all these statement here? I assume you are not an AWI investor as understood from your message above, so no vested interest. Would be interesting for the reader here to understand you.
Henry says:
March 19, 2012 at 11:58 am (UTC 8)
Diane, you can argue about it, but if you go around looking for some price on aussie wine price. Eg, I bought Penfold Magill 91 from UK cost only 40gbp recently. But If I were to get George Roumier Chambolle Musigny 96 now, it’s easily cost 90 gbp where upon released, it’s only maybe 15-20 gbp in 1998?
You can forward all my quote to the High Comm but I’m quite sure they’ll defend it all the way or even Wine Export Associations in Australia. I may not have a capacity or qualification. But definitely playing in the fine wine market for at least 10 years. Apparently you know nothing about about fine wines market. Btw if you want qualifications, you don’t really need qualifications in this market, you need experience, if you check carefully which who can command the price of wines. Currently the market react mainly to Robert Parker for bordeaux and Allen Meadow for burgundy. These two does not even have the title master of wine or MW and they were trained in law. But when the scores are good on certain wines it jump few folds easily.
Another thing, I think that why aussie wines are not investment grades, it’s because the production level is too high. If you compare the annual production of Penfolds and DRC. You’ll see why……
Diane Saw says:
March 18, 2012 at 9:39 pm (UTC 8)
Anyone read the special feature on wine investment in the paper (I think it is Sunday Times) two weeks ago. Many questions not clearly answered by AWI with this new Singaporean MD – formerly broker of AWI. Can you believe that the paid up capital is only 130sgd!
Interesting points to discuss:
1. It mentioned that Wine investment is not under the jurisdiciton of MAS. Is it true that any investment company not registered with MAS is not under its jurisdiction?
2. Why Registry of Companies and Businesses allow a wine investment company to be incorporated with such a small paid-up capital? or so claim investment company to register a company without clearance of MAS?
3. Maybe AWI is just a wine brokering firm or retail company under registration but try to represent itself as investment company – could that be possible.
4. Any possibility of class action suit against AWI if they are selling non-investment wine as claimed by Henry?
Any friends of MAS, Reg of Companies, Commercial Affair Department or commercial lawyers care to check and comment.
Martin Lee says:
March 19, 2012 at 3:18 am (UTC 8)
Hi Diane,
a lot of alternative investments like wine, land, etc do not fall under any particular regulation of MAS. Thus, they are all unregulated investments. If anything goes wrong, the end investor will be lead on a wild goose chase from MAS, CASE, CAD to your lawyer among others.
For registry of business, you can start up a company with any amount of paid up capital.
MummyJY says:
March 18, 2012 at 10:40 pm (UTC 8)
Not sure if this is the article Diane is referring to. It appeared on Business Times on 10 Mar.
*******************************************************************************
Business Times – 10 Mar 2012
Investing in wines: caveat emptor
It’s best to deal with regulated entities and to be clear about exit procedures
By GENEVIEVE CUA
PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR
INVESTING in wine would seem to be an attractive proposition: an alternative investment that supposedly zigs when the market zags. What’s more, price appreciation of the finest French wines has been stratospheric, thanks to voracious buying by the Chinese.
But many investors here who have invested anywhere between tens of thousands of dollars to well over $100,000 in wine have found themselves in a pickle. Notably, there have been three failures of so-called wine investment firms – Premium Liquid Assets, Universal Assets Group and Assetton Wine Investments – with police investigations reportedly underway on a couple of them.
Over the last 12 months, grumblings have also intensified in the blogosphere over Australian Wine Index (AWI), a firm set up in 2003 to advise and help clients invest in Australian wines, dubbed ‘New World’ wines. AWI procures wine on clients’ behalf. The wines are stored locally in clients’ names and the firm is supposed to help clients ‘exit’ or sell the portfolios, hopefully at an attractive rate of return.
But clients complain of hard-sell tactics by AWI brokers and of the inability to sell their wines. Clients are apparently told by some brokers that a ‘proper’ wine portfolio must have at least three lines. Clients are then reportedly pressured to buy more at the risk of not being able to exit at all.
Along with alternative investments such as offshore land banking – where clients have come to grief – wine investment is a murky, unregulated area.
This means that while you take advice from a broker who propositions you with so-called investment-grade wine that supposedly has appreciation potential, such brokers are not licensed and do not have to comply with any disclosure requirements. This is unlike regulated financial investments such as unit trusts, where advisers are subject to strict licensing and education requirements, and all marketing materials must comply with strict rules, ranging from restrictions on performance forecasts to the size of any fine-print details.
Says Wine Exchange Asia’s Lou Ghirardello: ‘We’ve seen some spectacular failures such as Premium Liquid Assets . . . There is almost a blind trust that the government or regulator will protect local investors here . . . Unfortunately, it’s predatory behaviour on the part of brokers. They have the knowledge, they know the market – and they prey on the gullible.’ Wine Exchange Asia conducts Internet auctions and sales of fine wine, and also offers a managed cellar service.
Mr Ghirardello adds: ‘What’s disturbing is that when you make a phone call with a view that you expect to sell the wine on the basis of some huge investment value, there is – if not a legal responsibility – then a moral responsibility for the seller to inform the buyer what the true market is for the wine. That’s where I believe there is a fundamental breakdown. People are buying wine based on pricing which is either not easy to discover or totally subjective insofar as they may be paying retail price for the wine.’
AWI managing director Alvin Lim concedes that the exit strategy hadn’t been thought through in the past. ‘We are trying to help clients exit their wines.’ Last year, the firm partnered an auction house in China and two auctions were held. He says the firm has helped clients to sell $6-8 million worth of wines at auctions.
But the China auctions are halted for now. Response to the second auction was poor, and Chinese buyers who have the option of buying in Hong Kong baulked at duties of 48 per cent should they want to consume the wine. Most China buyers, he says, buy for consumption.
While he is negotiating with AWI’s China auction partner for better terms and with other Hong Kong auction houses such as Christie’s, he is also planning to set up a ‘New World’ wine exchange platform to provide another avenue for clients to sell their holdings. The platform, which is expected to launch in May, is likely to be open to clients who have invested for at least 3-5 years. It will be open to buyers globally.
Based on ACRA filings, AWI reported revenues of $10.7 million in 2010 and a pretax loss of $851,000. It has total assets of $4.3 million and total liabilities of $5.08 million. Its paid-up capital is $130. This writer asked Mr Lim to explain the assets and liabilities as the company appeared to be technically insolvent.
He said: ‘Australian Wine Index is a fully audited business which operates legally and is above board. As a privately owned company, we do not comment on internal matters like our paid-up capital or our balance sheet.’ However, the financial strength of the company is arguably an important issue for investors to ascertain.
Mr Lim, who first joined AWI as a broker in 2005, became a director in 2010. ‘I made it my goal to help clients trade their wine successfully with a reasonable profit.’
On hard-sell tactics, he says turnover among brokers has been high. ‘Trading wine is done by our team of traders, not the brokers, and there is no restriction which says a client must have more than one wine or a certain specific minimum quantity invested with us. Neither is it in our stated terms and conditions. However, certain collectors do prefer to buy collections of wines rather than individual vintages – hence, we try to sell clients wine for them both individually and as collectors.
‘Having said this, based on the investor feedback you’ve brought to us, we will review the practices and sales techniques of all brokers and traders working at AWI to ensure they comply with company policy on this.’
Exiting or selling wine is a costly exercise as well. Investors have to pay AWI a brokerage of about 5 per cent and the auction house may take a commission of about 12 per cent. There are also moving and storage costs.
The rub, however, is the purchase price: are investors buying at retail or wholesale prices? In answer to this, Mr Lim points to the sale of Hewitson 2009 Private Cellar Barossa Valley Shiraz en primeur at S$158 per magnum (1.5 litre) bottle, including refrigerated shipping, three years’ storage and insurance. The same Private Cellar 2009 is quoted by Hewitson Cellar Door at A$70 (S$93) per 750ml bottle, he says.
This appears to be an Australian retail price. If exported to Singapore, it must be discounted by a 10 per cent Australian GST and 29 per cent wine equalisation tax.
But based on a search on http://www.wine-searcher.com, the price of the 2009 vintage is reflected as at about S$39 a bottle by a merchant in Finland. The price includes sales tax.
Clients who want to find alternative ways to sell through merchants here are also caught between a rock and a hard place. This is because while some wines are reportedly of good quality, the rush to exit causes a surge in supply which then predictably dampens prices.
Meanwhile, on the question of possible regulation of alternative investments such as wine, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) says it ‘strongly encourages’ consumers to deal only with regulated entities. ‘If consumers choose to deal with persons who are not regulated by MAS, they forgo the protection afforded under laws administered by MAS. We have also provided resources to enable consumers to conduct some checks on parties they intend to deal with.’
These resources include a register of representatives and a consumer alert on the dangers of dealing with unregulated persons which can be accessed at http://www.moneysense.gov.sg.
Ann says:
May 8, 2012 at 4:42 pm (UTC 8)
it is really a good article which i should read before i purchase.
Bassett's bulging bank balance says:
May 10, 2012 at 1:05 pm (UTC 8)
Anne, all you had to do was double check the price of the wine you were purchasing on the internet beforehand. Any smart investor would have done this.
It amazes me how careless and blind some people are when it comes to investing. I honestly believe the world would not have had the awful recent debt crisis is people who do not know how to use money were restricted from handling it.
Tummy Tan says:
May 15, 2012 at 3:56 pm (UTC 8)
If investors have the holding power, then hold and wait, or do whatever you want with your wines.
If you are a poor investor like me, and can’t afford to lose everything, cut loss and move on. This game is for rich people with deep pockets.
I learnt my lesson, wine is for drinking.
And those on AWI’s list, will most likely have received other kinds of investment opportunities e.g Whiskey investment and most recently investing in Trees. Ha! The addressess of all this companies are all on Nanking Row.
I now get a kick out of talking to these salesmen for hours. Well call me a loser. I dont care. I sold my wine. Have you?
norman says:
May 17, 2012 at 10:26 am (UTC 8)
Who have you sold to? I am looking for all possible avenues to
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