Martin Lee @ Sg
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Genneva Gold

Someone sent me a question to ask me about Genneva Gold Sdn Bhd.

According to the information on the website, Genneva Gold sells you Gold Bullion at a 2% discount to the market price with a buy-back guarantee.

At the end of one month, the buyer can

  1. Sell buy the gold to Genneva Gold at the market price based on the time he bought (thus making an immediate 2% profit)
  2. Keep the Gold Bullion.
  3. Rollover. Meaning do step one and buy a new Gold Bullion at a 2% discount to the current market price.

The deal seems too good to be true because the company is essentially selling you gold at a 2% discount and giving you a free put option.

There doesn’t seem to be any downside for the investor. If the price of gold goes down, he can sell it back to the company. If the price of gold goes up, he can keep the gold and sell it on a secondary market by himself.

genneva gold

genneva gold

Anyone considering this investment should ask important questions like:

  1. How does Genneva Gold generate revenue/profit from this entire transaction?
  2. Assuming an investor does just the bare minimum and rollovers his investment for 12 months, he would have made a 24% return. How does Genneva Gold substain this payout?
  3. How do you verify that the gold you receive is worth its weight in gold?

There is a “Terms and Conditions” to the 2% discount thing though. I would be interested to know what they are.

Leave a Comment:

6630 comments
Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

We have been observing for a while and somehow it’s not encouraging. From many instances like sudden migrations to delays of comms and hibah, also many undesirable charges like RM5 per transaction of hibah,ever escalating training costs and unnecessary Goldbeam subscriptions (even going increase soon). I wonder what’s next?

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Kardashan says 9 years ago

Today in the meeting there are 2 things which is obvious, one is the almighty PL said in the next 2-3 weeks there will be a crunch on the non schedule competitors and the other is KC Liew is not opening the JB branch as what was told earlier by PL, the francise is still being auctioned. So we see in the next 3weeks if there’s any signs on the crunch or else we shall award PL the Bullshitter Of The Year Award second half of 2011 while first half of the year award already awarded to him on KC’s opening of JB.

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    Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

    Ya we see what is going to happen in the month of July, if there’s nothing happen then we shall shut our ears to PL and I heard that KC didn’t have any involvement in the JB branch and instead had even exited his clients early and ventured into another goldco.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear All,

      KC may know something that most consultants/customers does not know and is therefore making an exit from this goldco. All the telling signs are there that the goldco is going to do another “invitation” to the friendly Country Bank to raid and suspend them and free them from all liabilities. Or else, to do a “TGL Singapore” stance of “voluntary liquidation”. Best of luck to the gold investing public.

      Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Kardashan,

    GMSB aka Dimensi Sentosa had submitted to and noted by BNM to carry out “Leasing and Factoring” as a Schedule Business. The gold trading activites is not “noted” by BNM and BNM had categorically emphasized that in the exchange of e-mails with interested parties. Hence, if the Finance Minister were to sign into effect that gold trading business is only to be carried out by “Schedule Businesses, then there will be “no man standing” after such a “stroke of the pen”. Happy gold trading.

    Reply
BBQ says 9 years ago

Recently Special Branch of PDRM had some breakthrough, looks like we have more ‘drama’ to follow on in time to come.

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Datuk George Ginibun says 9 years ago

There are so many con business of this nature in the past. Is this Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhdgenuine. Does Bank Nergara approve such business?

In their souvinir book Ther YDP Agong, Seri Paduka Permaisurs Agong, PM Najib, Tun Dr. Mahathis all appears in their souvinir book. Does this mean that the Gov’t is involved? I feel that the official phographs of our rulers, Gov’t, to appear in such a business proposal is HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE and IMPROPER.

Comments from the authority will be much appreciated, before the public is con again.

Thanks

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Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

Hello all, I don’t know if any of u face this problem? When co ask u all to submit the clients bank info in a form we all submited, I hv submitted full details with clients photostat ic also, then waited almost 2 weeks no news, then go complain then they ask to submit again the same full set of documents, after one week later no news then complain again, then they say check the list of names in the file, ok found the customer name inside, feel relief but customer said no money banked in. Then co staff said wait after 2 days to clear, now already after 2 days still don’t have , then just now staff ask to comeback Monday if don’t have request for cheque,probably by the time they issue is already tue or wed, then by the time the cheque clear already July . Kani nah…

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Klang Agent says 9 years ago

Hi,

Anyone of you have the contact info of Precious Metal S/B ?

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    Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

    U can call them at 03-77811731 , u can speak to ms.Jo Ann Len if u are intrested to be a consultant, she is the company’s administrator there.

    Reply
    Serene Sia says 9 years ago

    It seems Precious Metal Sdn Bhd is the only company I know in the industry to welcome all consultants of Genneva with open arms while the other goldcos have been filtering and declining applications by the Genneva consultants.

    Reply
Forceum says 9 years ago

Hi all,

As what GMSB’s lawyer said about the Finance Ministry would one day sign a movement to put a crunch on the non schedule goldcos, it seems too far fetch, I think the company has it’s inferiority complex about the consultant would jump ship due to the non efficiency of the company and it’s discretionary terms. One thing is for sure would happen in the near future that probably the company may even know it could happen is the bankers could even get themselves into this platform one day. Looking at the history of banking, when insurance industry stated in Malaysia previously they were monitoring from afar and later they themselves jumped into the band wagon. Even they would do this gold platform one day, park-ins or paper gold is no issue as they are banks, many billions of funds are put in as FDs and so what is the issue with park-ins? as banks we are not worried. So even if the Finance Minister would sign a movement which is far fetch doesn’t mean the company won’t face competition from the banking sector.

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    China man says 9 years ago

    Forceum,
    Yes I agree. Regardless what Genneva does to protect or dominate, there will be bigger and more superior entity that will get in their way like PB.

    Reply
    Nur says 9 years ago

    Not to mention MBB too.

    Reply
    Volk says 9 years ago

    PDRM also.

    Reply
      Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

      Maybe MACC also? Since BNM has raided them before, then now possibility of PB & MBB trying to derail them, possible PDRM and maybe MACC intervention. Wow I think this company has a complete record of risk factors… Lol

      Reply
Fonz says 9 years ago

Isn’t it funny? It is very clear that gold trading is not in BNM’s purview. BNM made it very clear in the Telelink email. So what if Genneva is their schedule institution? Any gold trade in any kind of platform is no business of BNM unless it’s deposit taking and laundry business. I have checked with someone inside BNM. Donno why Genneva is like getting your brother’s approval to get married rather than your dad.

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Fonz,
    The link with BNM is that the goldco claims to be “Shariah Compliant” (remember the launch of the Shariah Compliant programme on 15/12/2010 where TDM stand in for DYMM).
    The goldco had sumitted to be registered as a Schedule Institution to carry out “Leasing and factoring” and BNM had taken note that such submission is in order. Hence, if the business of the goldco had been carried out based on leasing and factoring, it would have come under the purview of BNM and “buyback” would have been legal. In fact, it was earlier announced that the goldco would follow this path, but changed their mind. Why? No cap on rebate? Can legally buyback? Does not fit the business model? Why is their Punjabi loyar talking about Schedule Institutions being the only one allowed to do gold trading when gold trading is not even under BNM purview? The agenda is to sustain their business model by having a “mad rush” to this goldco to buy gold and avoid collapse as the definition of a ponzi is that later players will pay for the gains of earlier buyers until the weight of the earlier buyers cannot be carried/sustained by the later buyers and more so when the goldco is siphoning the “gains” elsewhere. Happy gold buying.
    You have Pat Lu wondering what happen to his golden goose and Raymond wondering whether to go back to insurance when the fat lay sings Frank Sinatra’s “My Way”.

    Reply
    man says 9 years ago

    It was 6 months ago when i first attended the forum when Phillip Lim was saying in the meeting that the company obtained license and approved by BNM and it became so called ABOVE BOARD. It was all encouraging and i went round telling people about it , until now i realised i made a fool of myself. Probably a whole lot of agents made the same mistakes.

    Reply
      Ruben says 9 years ago

      Oh ya tell me about it. I will never believe what the company says this time especially the lawyer and PL.

      Reply
Ananda says 9 years ago

We have to pay RM270 to go hear bad news, stupid company. Discretionary this and that. The propaganda story isn’t good news as well because they themselves are vulnerable to the previous AMLA violation that is not resolved yet, even the park in 67m still tail gated by cops. So I think they are in hotter soup compared to the others.

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Ananda.
    What they are saying are :
    1. Buy back is discretionary. If they have gone into the leasing platform, buy back is legal. So why are they not on the platform where they are a “scheduled Business”?
    2. “Hibah” is discretionary with the shariah compliance whereas the rebate is an accepted business practice without the shariah compliance. Is there a hidden agenda other than to cut down on the rebate.
    3. The S&P signed between GMSB and the customer mentioned that delivery of the gold can be physical or “constructive”. In other words, the goldco can only give the buyer a “Certificate of Ownership” and they are deemed to have delivered the gold.
    All these work against the buyer, in addition to the very high mark up on the gold and the buyer not given the “Certificate of Origin” for the gold which is the normal practice with those above board gold trading companies.
    If you study the documentation in the case of Genneva Sdn. Bhd., it is as if they anticipated/welcome the BNM raid as they already have all the protection built=in by their smart lawyers.

    Reply
    Yan1970 says 9 years ago

    After all these revealations on the last Sunday I m having goosebumbs. A lot of things don’t sounds right. Especially a lot of made up stories by the lawyer.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Yan,
      Today is 16th June 2011, Let’s see how soon the commission will be paid.
      Goldco blames bank for delay in hibah payment, new story push blame to their own accounts dept not being able to cope and the consultants for not giving correct information regarding their customers’/their accounts and using paper scrap to provide the account particulars. Imagine, a goldco boasting of a billion ringgit monthly turnover not providing a standard form for the customer/consultant to fill! First batch hibah cheques for submissions dated 1-7/6/2011 announce to be out 15/6/2011. How come cheques can come out but bank transfer cannot? You can form your own conclusion why payment is dragged 1/2 month.
      Reason is in the business model’s sustainability. At MYR1 billion, monthly payout will amount to the following (simple deduction only):
      1. Hibah, MYR1,000,000,000 x 1.8% = MYR18,000,000
      2. Commission, at 0.8% = MYR 8,000,000
      3. Expenses, at 1% = MYR10,000,000
      Total = MYR36,000,000
      At 25% mark up, new gold purchases required = MYR36,000,000 x 4 = MYR144,000,000 or MYR144 million and that is on the lower level of costs. So keep your ears tuned to the new business as this will indicate the direction the goldco is going.
      That is the reason there are promotions galore for “new business” and branches are mushrooming. Customers beware. Consultants are addicts and most cannot be saved as there is till now no effective way to wean them off this “money machine” even though they can see the money machine heading for self disctruct after the money had been siphoned off as in the case of one GSB.

      Reply
      Thomas Sung says 9 years ago

      Agree ! Agree ! I am a lawyer myself and investor. I was brought to the meeting last Sunday by my agent and I know what the other lawyer said is full of air.

      Reply
      Magnum PI says 9 years ago

      Is the Punjabi lawyer working for BNM or Genneva? Why not ask him to replace KC Liew ?

      Reply
Gani says 9 years ago

Hargopal the Punjabi lawyer was trying to advocate on the Ministry Of Finance may one day impose a policy that probably only allow schedule institution to operate gold trading is way too far fetch, the way I see it is a deception. The company knows with the discretionary terms,cut backs of hibah rate and commissions would send the consultants working for the competitors. That’s why they need to come out with a ‘story’ to try pecify their consultants to stay on loyal with them. I know the ‘propaganda’ won’t work because in the first place if the Finance Minister would do such a thing he’s asking for trouble. What more De Gem Bullion which owned by Poh Kong which happens to be connected to the Ministry Of Finance will be the largest to get hit if the minister do such a thing.

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Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Hey Pat Lu,
You sound like Frank Sinatra singing “My way” into the sunset, except for the fact that he is the master but even then he cannot control his fate, while you are the addict whose goldengoose is on the way to menopause or even a worse fate. Happy golden eggs collecting and make sure that you have a reservation for the lifestyle vacation overseas because the events that are unfolding now may have your customers on your tail in the not too distant future. Where money is concerned, no amount of spin will take the heat off and by then your masters will not be here to back you because they too will be going for a very looong lifestyle vacation.

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    Facts Up says 9 years ago

    I think most of the consultants need to go on a long vacation from now on as they have spoken to their clients based on the pre-discretionary specifications or at least wear a Kevlar vest…haha

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Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

Discretionary hibah ! Discretionary buy back ! Then tell me what the heck should anyone buy their gold at a discretionary price of RM187 per gm?

And…

The Bangali loyar think we are still kids or what? The Ministry Of Finance propaganda story is the stupidest thing I ever heard. I am also a government official myself and I know it’s absolutely BS!!
He’s a loyar for heaven’s sake!

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    Edward says 9 years ago

    It is so obvious that he has a vested interests in the company. His job is only to explain about the AMLA & BAFIA but he end up giving us sales training. What’s more he talks about non schedule institution are so called vulnerable, what about GMSB itself is already vulnerable due to the previous doings that is still unsettled. Like the RM67m park in scam. Not to mention GMSB gets a show course letter from BNM. Didn’t they told us that they have good relationship BNM? Now what happen?

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      Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

      Have to check out this bangalee, it seems so obvious he’s getting a cut out of the sales we do, otherwise why is he so enthusiasm about the company’s business? His job at the training is only to educate us on AMLA and BAFIA and not educate us how to sell, that’s PL’s job. Can we expect the bangalee to run the mon and tue meeting sometime soon?

      Reply
    BBQ says 9 years ago

    Today is at whooping RM190 per gram, that’s a huge price to pay for a discretionary gold isn’t it?

    Reply
      Xanadu says 9 years ago

      Only fools would buy at 190 now especially on discretionary terms. Still there would be con-sultans make fools out of clients.

      Reply
Tampin Gold Agent says 9 years ago

The bangali lawyer said based on past record they have been paying hibah, based on past record they have been guaranteed buying back, that’s past tense. After 12 June 2011 we’ll see.

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Punjabi lawyer also said Finance Minister will sign to only allow Scheduled Business/Reporting Institutions to do gold trading. Ini Loyar boleh pakai kah?
    Is it ethical?

    Reply
      Kardashan says 9 years ago

      The punjabi lawyer forgot we got camera anabled handphones, I have recorded every single word he said even on video, my friend have on his mp3 recorder throughout, we will varify that statement of his with BNM investigation chief and someone from inside Ministry Of Finance, we probably forward the recordings to MACC to inform them if the company actually ‘feeds’ anyone in the ministry for them to implement such movement.

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        Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

        Dear Kardashan, pls also send a copy to the BAR council to verify if this LOYAR is practicing lawfully? I doubt so, he’s now seems like a businessman more than a lawyer.

        Reply
        Hamid says 9 years ago

        He also forgot that theres also spies from BNM unit penyasatan was there too.

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Sean says 9 years ago

After today the big word finally revealed! DISCRETIONARY!!! We consultants had just been screwed from behind. Now all the clients will be refused of cashing out after 6 months regardless of whatever reason unless it’s renewal. Mark my words! You are all trapped !

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Sean,
    These are the same people who carried out the “Park-In” scam. In my view, in 5-6 months’ time, the price of gold would have risen appreciably and your customers should just keep the gold, even if the goldco is still around.
    However, it has to be mentioned that the S&P spells out very clearly the obligation/undertaking of the Seller to purchase the “gold product” and it is not discretionary. Clause 2.5 of the S&P reads :
    2.5 Purchase Undertaking of gold products
    The Customer may exercise his right to sell his gold products within the period specified in Section 4 of the First Schedule.
    Upon the Customer exercising his right to sell the gold products, the Seller undertakes to purchase the gold products from the Customer at the price stated in Section 3 of the First Schedule within the time specified in Section 4 of the First Schedule.
    It is only discretionary, if the Customer does not exercise his right within the specified period.

    Reply
    BBQ says 9 years ago

    Of he screwed you consultants from behind, what u expect? He’s a Bangali ma…

    Reply
kuching buyer says 9 years ago

9/6/2011 still dint see any “hibah” in my account yet! luckily i am using internet banking, i cant imagine how those aunties & uncles go to the bank counter update their bank book everyday……….

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    Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

    Report this to BNM. The company blamed CIMB for the non efficiency, if that’s the case why still use CIMB. Change bank if CIMB sucks but they better be sure it’s CIMB sucks and not the company themselves sucks.

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      Hanif says 9 years ago

      I am a management staff of CIMB, I have been following this blog for months but particularly this topic caught my attention. Now the company blamed the bank for the flaw, first of all, all branches are governed by the KPI. It is very crucial for the bank not to miss out any order for any transaction. As we speak now we have already received complaints from our customers that they did not received their due hibah is because due to bank’s negligence but we ran a check at the branch and found that only a small portion of the transaction order given and that was also cleared. Please refer to the company about the hibah issue and on the banks side we have cleared the air.

      Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    To all GMSB Consultants:

    No point ranting and raving. Teething problems are expected, so kindly be patient. Tell all customers to call their banks to check if their Hibah are in.

    If not, here’s what Consultants should do, as adviced by GMSB:

    At Genneva’s front desk, collect and complete two copies of ‘Customer Bank Details Submission Letter’ (CBDSL) and attach the following:
    1. Copy of Customer IC.
    2. Copy of Customer Hibah Letter.
    3. Copy of the first two pages of savings book or top part of customer current account statement where name and account number are clearly shown.
    4. Get customer to sign both copies of the ‘CBDSL’.

    A copy of ‘CBDSL’ will be returned to you for your records as proof of submission.

    GMSB seeks your cooperation to expedite matters. Please follow procedures and everything will be resolved within a week of submission.

    Thereafter, it’ll be a breeze. Then you’ll have more time to do other things (such as selling gold) instead of submitting, collecting and banking in Hibah cheques for your clients. 🙂

    Hope this helps. Cheers!

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Hey Pat Lu,
      Maybe you have not seen the posting by Hanif from CIMB and is continuing the spin. In Hanif’s posting it is clearly stated that CIMB on its side is up to date on all submissions made by the goldco. Can GMSB words and documents be trusted? Try to avoid representing the goldco if you are still not up to speed as one day you will be left high and dry.

      Reply
Pontian Guy says 9 years ago

Theres been one signs after another that tells the company’s situation, maybe the consultants know and doing something about it and some knows but trying to stay positive and tell themselves everything is ok, the same attitude of the previous TGL agents before it got slammed. Some just stupid and donno anything and some don’t want to know, some know but make donno. Whatever the consultants wants to react is their purgative but don’t forget it is the clients that trusts them and they better don’t screw up.

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kuching buyer says 9 years ago

new rules again, start from 1/6/2011 no need to submit hibah latter, they said the money will credit to customer account “automatic” after 2 days the hibah date, customer will need to pay Rm5 per transaction. My hibah dated 4/6/2011 but i havent see any “hibah” in my account yet……….keep waiting………

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    George says 9 years ago

    my hibah on 3/6/2011 and i have early before 2/6/2011 already provided my CIMB account info and as at today evening no hibah in yet. i guess non KL based hibah would be very much delayed and delay in anything is extra profitting for them.

    Reply
Serene Sia says 9 years ago

Seriously now that i’ve learned that the approval from BNM is just a deception, i feel so stupid. My client believed me when i told them we are approved by BNM. So one day when they learned that it was all deceptions, what am i to say to them?However they are now stuck for 6 months and i m sure they have some concerns in between the 6 months period and cant get out.

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Serene,
    Since your customers are already holding on to their gold, their exposure is already pass the maximum. So, every month’s “Hibah” is a bonus. Just hold on for the next 6 months. Then cash out, if GMSB is still around, and then go into pure physical gold at the low entry point and getting the cetificate of origin and the hallmark gold.

    Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    Hi Serene,

    Don’t feel ‘stupid’. You probably repeated to your client what you were told by your up-line who used the wrong term “approved by BNM” in one sweeping statement instead of “fulfilled all Bank Negara’s requirements as a scheduled Institution under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institution Act, 1989 (BAFIA); and classified under First Schedule of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act, 2001(AMLA) as a ‘Reporting Institution’.” …A mouthful indeed. :p

    Perhaps your up-line did not attend the first Syariah Compliance Briefing on 12 March 2011. In addition, it’s stated clearly on page 2 of the manual:

    * Genneva does not require BNM’s approval
    * Gold trading business is NOT under BNM purview
    * Laid down under the M & A
    * Authority – SSM or CCM

    Perhaps you’ve been relying on your up-line for updates instead of attending the weekly consultant forums?

    Whichever the case, I highly recommend that you attend the New Consultant Orientation to get a refresher as soon as possible. Please refer to the Genneva Calendar of Events at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/genneva-calendar-of-events/ — do call Genneva office to reconfirm in case there is a change of schedule.

    I would also recommend you correct the misinformation with your clients. It’s a genuine mistake. I’m sure they will appreciate your sincerity and continue to entrust their savings with you.

    Feel free to call me if you require further clarification.

    Cheers and all the best,

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Hey Pat Lu,
      If you had followed the postings in Uncle Martin Lee’s LionInvestor you would have learned that the claim of approval is from non other than the speakers at the Monday meeting of GMSB. Are you aware that GMSB have now been slapped with a show cause letter by BNM. Maybe you can find out its content and keep the crowd informed of development. Your goldengoose is fast getting past its fertility period and maybe getting into menopause. Happy golden egg collecting.

      Reply
Magnum PI says 9 years ago

Dear Lee May Mei,

Apart from the deception the company impress upon the consultants, now we see another propaganda to squeeze more money before it all ends here. From day one we have been seeing the kind of style they operated is pretty much similar to the underworld operators. Seriously the goldbeam is nothing more than just a propaganda for their own cronies to make money,fast money from the consultant’s wallets. I have heard enough of their bullshit and i say its time to move on.

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AN says 9 years ago

People,

Any investment carries risk, high risk, low risk. Depending on the level you are comfortable with your investment risk, once assessed go for it.

There is NO SUCH THING as a GUARANTEED WIN for any investment. Do your due diligence.

Whether Genneva business model is sustainable or not, time will tell. And there’s no need to argue until the cows come home unless you yourself is made a victim of this ‘Genneva Scam’……

As for me, I bought 5KG (am not a sales consultant) since its inception in Singapore office 2008, and until now the Singapore office has never delay payout when the Gold is due for ‘SELL BACK’.

All I see at the Singapore office is, it seems every month the sales is soaring. When there is insufficient Gold to be purchase, we just wait for stocks to be available and then pay up and get the Gold.

No such thing as pay first and get the GOLD later!

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Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

To all GMSB Consultants and GoldBeam members and ROS,

The Secretary General of Gold Beam has issued the calling of the AGM to be held on 18th June 2011 complete with agenda and the proposal for various changes in the Constitution of the Association.

1. Constitution of the Association (Persatuan)
In the first place, the Persatuan had violated to Rules of the ROS by not providing a copy of the Constitution to its members or even having a copy displayed in its premises for members to be able to view such document
2. Venue of Annual General Meeting (AGM)
The Persatuan is officially located at Kuchai Lama and the bulk of its members are residing in the Klang Valley in particular and peninsula Malaysia in particular. As such, what is the rationale of holding the AGM in Kota Kinabalu in Sabah? Why don’t we have it in Beijing or Moscow? What is the quorem required? Is Gold Beam the instrument of Joseph Kow? If so, why bother to “force” the consultants to be members?
3. Accounts of Gold Beam
The first item of the agenda is to present and pass the accounts? Has the accounts been audited by independent auditors? Why is the audited accounts not appended to notice of meeting together with the Annual Report?
4. Change of Rules
The agenda include several items where the Rules are to be changed including the increase in the spending of the committee without providing any reason or rationale for such increase.
The Rules are also to be changed to increase the entrance fees and subscriptions. What is the basis for such change. Is it to meet the deficits of GMSB?
The change of Rule is proposed for foreigner to become members. Is it legal?
The Rule is to be amended to allow for office bearers to be appointed for a period of 2 years but who has the right to make such appointment in a Persatuan where every member has an equal right?
5. Proxy
The notice of meeting does not come with a form for proxy voting even with the venue being so far from its registered office.
6. Quorem
What is the quorem for the meeting.

What is being done is more appropriate for a Sole proprietorship where Joseph Kow as sole proprietor is making all the decision. The Registrar of Societies will be duly informed of such manipulations of Gold Beam and all member can e-mail me to be include in the protest at
[email protected]
Thank you for standing up to bullying

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Following is the content of the AR Registered Letter postmarked 02/06/2011 sent by the Manipulation Arm of Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd which calls itself Persatuan Pengusaha Jongkong Emas/The Giold Bullion Entrepreneur’s Association of Malaysia (GBEAM)

    Date : 23rd May 2011

    Dear Sir/Madam
    RE : PERSATUAN PENGUSAHA JONGKONG EMAS/THE GOLD BULLION ENTREPRENEUR’S ASSOCIATION OF MALAYSIA (GBEAM) : NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

    NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT the 1st Annual General Meeting of the Persatuan Pengusaha Jongkong Emas Malaysia/The Gold Bullion Entrepreneur’s Association of Malaysia (GBEAM) will be convened and held at the Promenade Hotel, Teratai Room, Kota Kinabalu, Sabah on 18th June 2011 at 3.00 p.m. for the following purpose :
    AGENDA
    1. To table the Treasurer’s report and the audited financial statements for the year 2010;
    2. To elect office bearers;
    3. To table the activities of GBEAM for the past year;
    4. To amend the by laws of GBEAM to enable foreigners to be menbers of GBEAM;
    5. To amend the by laws of GBEAM to empower the secretary and chairman to approve a larger sum of monies for expenditure;
    6. To amend the by laws of GBEAM to appoint the office bearers of GBEAM for a period of 2 years;
    7. To amend the by laws of GBEAM to include the option for menbers to join GBEAM as Preference members and
    8. To amend the by laws of GBEAM to raise the Entry fees and monthly subscription fees for members other than Preference members for the coming year.

    The letterhead bears the association name and address as follows :
    PERSATUAN PENGUSAHA JONGKONG EMAS MALAYSIA
    (1590-10-WKL)
    No. 43, Room 1, Jalan Kuchai Maju 6, Off Jalan Kuchai Lama,
    58200 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

    In line with requirements for any amendments to the by laws (constitution), it is always required that the full text of the amendments as proposed to be provided to the members before the AGM together with the proxy forms.
    Is GBEAM in compliance with the requirement? Is GBEAM allowed to hold the AGM at a far away corner of the country?

    Reply
      Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

      It looks to me that Genneva has it’s own in house income tax dept for the consultants aka Goldbeam, if you don’t pay you don’t get your comms. They can raise the subscription and don’t you dare oppose or you don’t get your comms. Then there’s this Syariah training which squeeze some juice out of you from time to time. Then they also squeeze the customers from stamping, they make clean profit of RM10 per stamping, estimated 35,000 stamping done up to date, similar of 35,000 hibah pay outs for each case, individually they make another RM4 clean profit per case every month. Then coming soon the consultants stand to lose out 0.2% of comm by the next renewal. Hibah down another 0.5% to 1.5%’ wah… The directors and cronies will be so fat until the most expensive diet program can help them. Condolence to the poor consultants being bullied like a dog.

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear Old Uncle,
        They said even every dog has his day, but for the consultants (not those in the PL, KC, Fat Mama, Local Jim Ron aka Sarawak Joe clique) have all the time to only take all the spin and B***S**T from the Trio now that KC is put out to pasture in JB.
        Because of the addiction to the Vitamin M dished out by the goldco, no choice lah. If die , die lah bacause already left the job for the Vitamin M of the goldco. Must struggle through thick and thin, but in the end, when the ponzi had played out its last chapter, how to face the customers oh? Like Stephen Covey says, “Begin with the end in mind”. That is the reason, I am keeping my physical gold, which is helping me to maintain my purchasing power. Why buy the gold at such high premium and let those spin masters pay you back your money slowly and spend sleepless night wondering when the goldco will collapse. Worst case scenerio, when you are re-newing your contract, they have your money but you are still not given the gold, and presto all the Datos and the trio have taken a flight to their dream holidays. Bye bye dear. Cry also no tears oh!

        Reply
          Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

          I just finds it unbelievable when this goldco has a bad history of losing customers money in their RM67m scam and make a comeback to dig for more and yet ends up scooping up almost RM1b of new revanue. The directors should write a book titled Con Tactics 101.

          If Genneva can con off RM67m and still can make an explosive comeback with new RM1b revenue, then James Iseli and Sue How should make a comeback to gold biz and probably they will make a new record of double what they did the last time.

          Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Dear BBQ,
At this juncture, the goldco may even invite the BNM Investigation Unit to come in to save them from the business model failure. History repeating itself? Start SGV again? But then they cannot as the Directors are also in GMSB. Start another one or use the “Bank” they are buying over.
Tune in to the following :
1. Goldco group is the first to purchase a bank;
2. Goldco is getting the Minister of Finance to limit gold trading to Schedule Business/Reporting Institution only;
3. Goldco is chartering a plane to fly consultants to Beijing;
4. Goldco is having a lucky draw to give away prizes including Camry cars and Rolex watches;
5. Goldco is extending promotion for another year;
6. Goldco is rewarding its consultants a lifestyle package;
7. Goldco is giving senior consultants a chance to profit share;
8. Goldco is buying a building for its corporate HQ and inviting the PM for the house warming
But then, where is the money coming from oh.

Reply
    Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

    from where the money come from? from the coffer lo…. when they done depleting the account again then we see whatever fancy they will come up with, probably another migration or something.

    Reply
    Klang Agent says 9 years ago

    On your description 1, this i m waiting to see what bank are they going to buy? Now it seems already desperate for funds until forced customers to migrate to fill in their financial pot hole.

    On your description 2, this one also i am waiting to see, if they so terrer can get the finance minister to only allow GMSB to do gold which means Public Gold, De Gem Bullion,Hong Cheong ,Poh Kong,Tomei all those big time gold boys all have to ta pau!

    Seriously i have enough of ther bull pooh ! Can’t they just be honest and humble?

    Reply
    George says 9 years ago

    so finally the big tai kor had revealed on tuesday that the company was never had any approval nor licensed. it was all along PL and the company had decieved and misled us for the entire year and why now only reveal the thruth? Is it after they had secured everyone for at least 6 more months after the migration? Now that we know they are so called still ‘illegal’ per say,so what happens after 6 months from now? or maybe in between the 6 month?

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear George,
      Quote “How else am I going to tell you that the migration from SGV to GMSB is vital to safeguard our platform and our Iron Rice Bowl. Would you like to see the company follow another goldco which had gone into voluntary liquidation, since we are running so short of fund and if we do not get the re-balancing fund from the migration, then all of us will go find another source of income. I am planning on retiring this coming December (2011) and need another 8 months to build up my retirement fund. So please, do not upset my apple cart. If you are not happy, please leave/resign. Thank you. Unquote

      Reply
        Sean says 9 years ago

        Is this quote by u or PL?

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          This is the spin that is expected from GMSB when they are covering covering one spin/lie with another.

          Reply
      Forseum says 9 years ago

      Now T.Sri Teh Hong Piow ….hahaha …because all you consultants have been fooled by the company while Khairuddin and partners…hahahaha their way to the bank!

      Reply
        XxX says 9 years ago

        The agents in Genneva are not very smart people aren’t they? Easily decieved by the company. Hmm, it seems 2000 not very smart people in the agency force.

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          Actually the CON-SUNTANs are smart and know the game and are manipulated by the clique of PL, KC, Fat mama to bring in the customers. They are addicted to the Vitamin M and it is the customers who are being led to keep putting in the money. Remember, as PL said, where else, with minimum schooling, can one earn 6D income every month except with get rich fast schemes like this one. Take a look at Pat Lu of the Golden goose
          who tries all the tricks to bring in the customers and consultants.

          Reply
    E.H. Wong says 9 years ago

    I don’t know about all you people but I have never believed a word this goldco and their two chameleon leaders says. Since they have screwed up before they are capable of screwing up again. Me and my clients are just mentally well prepared in event of history repeating itself. The due 6 months from now I m out of here.

    Reply
      kami-agent-bodoh says 9 years ago

      kalau syarikat tak tipu kamu macam mana syarikat boleh sampai sales 1 billion?

      Reply
      XxX says 9 years ago

      There are a lot more deception than just this, why can’t they read the signs? Is it so trustworthy the company? That’s what the previous batch of consultants thought before July 2009

      Reply
BBQ says 9 years ago

Do u know that every week there were hundreds of call-ins via 1-300-88-5465 (1-300-88-LINK) to BNM and walk-ins to query BNM if they have granted GMSB license and approvals.

Investigation unit which happens to be the BNM’s ‘unfriendly’ party to GMSB have been wondering if the company have been mis-use BNM name to promote or solicit sales. Sorry to say they are on it as we speak, if they find that the company is guilty of such doings, they could be charged under act of fraudulent and breach of BNM’s policy by advocating false information to the public that involves BNM such as “approved and licensed”.

Last couple of month back we even see some of the agents handling out flyers outside of banks that say “approved by Bank Negara Malaysia”,dont be surprised that investigation unit might have a few copies with them as evidence.

If i m not wrong, the penalty for such offence could be suspension of the company up to 90 days.

Reply
Kardashan says 9 years ago

On tue forum PL mentioned that they are not approved nor licensed by BNM. That wasn’t what he said 5 months ago. Back then he and KC were emphasizing that they were above board, APPROVED and given license by BNM. So which is which now? I have been talking to clients on what they mentioned 5 months back, now is like a slap on the face.

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Kardashan,
    BNM only “noted” the submission of GMSB aka Dimensi Sentosa as a Scheduled Business/Reporting Institution and that submission is based on “Leasing and Factoring”.
    The Shariah Compliance is not a licence but a trading/business platform with a BNM oversight committee overseeing the GMSB’s own in house Shariah Committee headed by Eminent Syariah Banker Aziz.
    So your colleague Pat Lu was talking about his senior having a letter from BNM, which he quoted extensively, as having the approval and licence from BNM. CON-SULTANS can con some people all the time, all the people some of the time but unfortunately not all the people all the time. Why doesn’t any of you ask your colleague Pat Lu to take his/her “senior”s letter and go see BNM officials to confirm its authanticity? Pat Lu is so proud to be able to make so many people laughing all the way to the bank, him/herself included.
    Please remember the guidelines given by “Wanderer”. Please note that :
    1. Migration of accounts from SGV to GMSB is to collect Top-up/balancing money (to top up rather dry coffer);
    2. Perpetual “Promotions”
    3. Openning of new branches
    are “signs/omens”.
    The most dangerous period is when the customer is not holding on to the gold. That is when you have no collateral and can lose all. Beware. One fine morning when you wake up, that may be the start of your nightmare and many will be singing “scooby, where are you”. But all the friendly faces of PL, KC, AK, Fat Mama, Fat CupC and off course the Dato’s may not be there to help you. It may not be external intervention. It may be the sustainability of the business model.

    Reply
      Serene Sia says 9 years ago

      Who is Fat Cup C? Is it Rita Goh?

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        If I am not mistaken it is Yeo not Goh (I got it wrong earlier)

        Reply
    Tampin Gold Agent says 9 years ago

    I also remembered clearly those statements were also mentioned at a gold talk by KC months ago. Now PL turn around and said it’s otherwise. I m sure many more had the impresion that is BNM approved and licensed.

    Reply
      Klang Agent says 9 years ago

      If not approved or licensed by bank negara then why we become suckers for the company to settle for 1.5% hibah and 0.5% comm? Is the management or PL think we stupid?

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear Klang Agent,
        Not stupid but addicted and like all addicts cannot live without the vitamin M.
        GMSB and all the chameleons before it (GSB & SGV) knows that the business model is not sustainable at the rate of rebate and commission and needs to cut it down before the platform collapse. Neither the Schedule Business/Reporting Institution nor the Shariah Committee sets any limit on the rebate/Hibah and Hibah by its nature as an incentive is a payment made at the discretion of the company from the profit it makes. All these talk of limits are the goldcos’ spin.

        Reply
    Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

    You know ar the two jokers who runs the meetings every week,now only one joker,the other joker said to be opening JB but no sign of him on the JB venture, however I can only describe them as “human also them,ghost also them”. Last time PL said with such pride that “no more worries about bank negara coming up to the office,we are above board”. Now… “we are not approved by bank negara”. What kind of talk c*ck is this? Then the famous phrase “we must protect this platform”… I just curious of why he have such inferiority complex about this platform? Anyone care to enlighten?
    So now everyone just tell your customers, we are just the common Joe in the business. Nothing special about Genneva.

    Reply
      Serene Sia says 9 years ago

      Oh new topic! I too can testify that I was also given the impression that the company was given the unfair advantage over the others of BNM approval and license to oparate this platform, so what happens now? No more money to give the BNM officials hibah?

      Reply
      Sean says 9 years ago

      If i may, i will enlighten you on why is PL is so inferior about the platform, firstly now we know finally that it is all along wasn’t any blessing by BNM in the first place,he knew it all along but afraid to let it out,fearing that if the consultants knew, they won’t do the business, therefor the six figure overriding won’t be imminent. As he had always mentioned in the meetings that he were from the hard life and difficult times before, therefor he is always afraid to go back to the rags, so he has always emphasize that always protect this platform.

      Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear All,
      BNM had stated very clearly that it does not regulate the gold trading business and that they had only “noted” the submissions made by GMSB aka Dimensi Sentosa to be a Scheduled Business/Reporting Institution to conduct business in “leasing and factoring”. The Shariah Compliance is only a platform for doing business and neither constitute any “approval” or “licence”.
      Pat Lu and/or his/her senior had committed a serious offence in claiming that BNM had issued a letter of approval/licence for the GMSB gold trading business of which he/her had quoted extensively.
      Now that it comes from the horse’s mouth GMSB does not have BNM approval/licence, is it not clear that the migration is done for the sole purpose of getting the customers to re-balance their accounts with the rising gold prices and not because of the risk posed by BNM/authorities. This is to protect the platform from collapse due to the unsustainability of the business model.
      The question is , FOR HOW MUCH LONGER?
      A rough calculation shows that assuming the month sales at RM1 million, their outflow will amount to
      1. Commission to consultants : RM9 million (Figure from PL)
      2. Rebate/Hibah at 1.5% : RM15 million
      3. Expenses at 1% : RM10 million
      Total : RM34 million
      To breakeven at 25% profit, the new sales will have to be
      : RM136 million
      All the B**L S**T about hedging on gold prices, refining and minting, and profit from trading in gold jewelry is the creation of the mind of the addict.
      Not to mention hedging on gold price, the goldco is not even buying any gold at all by using the customers’ gold left in their care for 2 days to roll.
      All should beware. The last in (or the last remaining) will be paying the price for the lifestyle of the rich “Shan Ju Pai”. The date with destiny may be as early as July 2011 but if there is heavy new sales, it may be prolonged by a quarter of a year. There will be more promotions to get the heavy sales and this will push the goldco into deeper water. The end result is the same. The goldco use the excuse that only 1.5% hibah can be given using the Shariah compliant platform when the Business Transformation is from SGV to GMSB, but the new sales drop drastically despite the Hu ha of 30 kg new sales per day. So now it is like the textile shops having year long promotions.
      Happy gold trading.

      Reply
        Pat Lu says 9 years ago

        PROVE IT, Lee May Mei, re. your comment:
        > Pat Lu and/or his/her senior had committed a serious offence in claiming that BNM had issued a letter of approval/licence for the GMSB gold trading business of which he/her had quoted extensively.

        That is a serious allegation, LMM. Read my post dated May 5, 2011 at 2:55 pm (UTC 8); Point 4, copy paste here for your easy reference:
        4. I quote Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd …has fulfilled all Bank Negara’s requirements as a scheduled Institution under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institution Act, 1989 (BAFIA); and classified under First Schedule of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act, 2001(AMLA) as a “Reporting Institution”. More details, click on the above link.

        Please check the dictionary for the meaning of ‘approval/licence’ and ‘fulfilled’.

        Nonetheless, in a nutshell, for anyone who wishes to know the FACTS, not hearsay, rumours, assumptions or predictions by naysayers, skeptics, Self-Appointed Prophets of Doom…

        * Genneva does NOT require BNM’s approval
        * Gold trading business is NOT under BNM purview
        * Laid down under M & A
        * Authority – SSM or CCM

        Cheers!

        Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
        Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

        Reply
Wanderer says 9 years ago

Hey,

This is based on my experience as agent of these gold companies. Whether they are scam companies or not, we do not know and there is no point speculating or arguing about it. If you are still interested in going forward with it always keep in mind these simple rule:

1) Always have gold in hand!!
Don’t EVER be consumed by greed and go for their park-ins. Even if they offer you 100% return. Reason is, if you have gold in hand, whatever happens to the company you still have at least 60-70% of your capital and a possibility of more in time to come when gold price goes up.

2) Auto-renewals
Try to look for companies that has auto-renewals or ties you down for a duration of time. Reason is, during renewals, there’s always a time frame when you don’t have gold in your hand while your money is still with them and thats dangerous!! Coz the authorities can come anytime and you’d be as good as dead.

3) Risk
There is a 30%-40% risk in this game. Always remember that. and if anything happens.. for god sake stop whining about the company or the agent. I know that sounds brutal but you were made aware of this risk and it was your choice to come in. There’s blogs and forums on the net with all the pros and con of this business.

3) Retirement plans
Don’t be bamboozled by agents telling you about putting all your money for some retirement plans and blah blah blah. This gold plan is only for those who has extra cash to put aside and willing to take the 30%-40% risk.

4) Loan
Don’t freaking take a loan for this investment!! If you have done it.. ARE YOU NUTS!?!? Put only what you have, not what you don’t have!! However tempting it might be to use the bank’s money, this method is suicidal.

5) Regulation
Don’t be fooled by any claims that it is regulated either by syariah compliance or bank negara. There is no regulation on this business. Its purely buying and selling of gold and if the company is around, you get your 1%-2% rebate.

This is just for those who are still looking to investing in gold through these companies despite what is said in the net. Personally, I’m still putting my money in one of these companies and yes I still have clients but i make sure they are made well aware of all the risk involved.

If you are interested in gold you can always buy it the unit trust way which is in small amount. You still can make a return of about 5%-10% pa.
Or
you can always go for more legit investments that gives you around 10% pa.

The decision is always yours to make.

Cheers.

Reply
kuching buyer says 9 years ago

My hibah letter submitted on 17/5, 30/5 the staff of Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd told me they forgot to send my latter to HQ to claim. What kind of joke is this?!?!?!

Reply
    Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

    Again complain, dont you see it is all so obvious on the funds constrain, the so called ‘forgot’ is a perfect excuse to delay the hibah payment. I think the entire east Malaysia hibah claim were forgotten.

    Reply
    KAN says 9 years ago

    It seems we both are the forgotten ones, it’s just funny. I m a KK agent and I also recently experienced hibah letter forgotten to submit to HQ.

    Reply
confused says 9 years ago

Hi folks, I’ve been a silent reader all the while. I’ve heard someone said that the Gold Label has been removed from charges, but im confused becoz last week I called up BNM and they said that they’re stil under investigation. Furthermore, my agent told me that the directors are fighting with the suppliers of the gold because they did not deliver the gold for the GSS scheme. And when I ask whether could I redeem my gold in SG, she said that the BNM is instructing the directors not to issue any letter of redemption for the gold. Please enlighten me as I have about > 50 k stuck in the GSS scheme, and my agent said that theere are still no news. Thanks

Reply
    Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

    There will be never ending BS by this goldco since day one they started and still BS their way even til today. Technically as I know they suppose to be under investigation by BNM but it seems after one year if there’s no charges they have to drop,perhaps they have not officially done it yet. As far as I know this goldco have no intention to return any gold to any of their GSS clients because it’s their jackpot money.

    Reply
    Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

    For Genneva Sdn Bhd, less than a year already the directors been charged and until now not resolved, if TGL suspended after one year and no charges then it’s supposedly lifted off the suspension, otherwise earlier we should have seen some kind come charge already, like Genneva.

    Reply
Sudra says 9 years ago

TGL was said to be lifted last week but since the company already been liquidated then the company accounts has been granted to the directors. BNM will not entertain any enquiries pertaining to the GSS and whatever matter on TGL. This is the cheese of it, why is the old Genneva not lifted? Why is the 3 datos’ case not over? I think PDRM is not letting go due to something.

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    If I am not mistaken, TGL had gone into voluntary liquidation in Singapore but am not sure about the status of the Malaysian operation. Anybody out there who can shed some light on this?
    As regards the Genneva Sdn. Bhd. “Park-in”, since the Star reported that only RM20 million and 5 Kg of gold is only left, is the balance being spirited away (breach of trust) or is the business model faulty to the extent that the company have no more fund to pay its depositors. There are many long suffering customers out there waiting for the return of their “Parked -in” fund. Is the GMSB business model having the same defects? Are the customers gold and fund safe?

    Reply
    Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

    Lee Mei May is not wrong, the model aka the formula lasts about 1 year or more if lucky. Happened to many goldcos and Samudra started almost 2 years ago and seems its a bit long due, now they have too long high time to dig for funds and lucky for the them the migration is the perfect excuse, when is the next due for another coffer burst? This time we are forced to migrate because they dont allow early exit and dont honour the vouchers, after 6 months due i m going to exit my clients if they lasts that long. Then i m going to retire from this industry, too much upsetting. Going back to a more legitimate business.

    Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Dear Pat Lu,

Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd. is only a goldco. The factory is owned by Ng Poh Weng & family and is for doing jewelry. It does not refine and/or mint gold. Even CON-SULTAN have to check your facts. The gold factory other than doing jewelry, only sub-divide the 1 kg gold bars into smaller units of gold bar and coins and charging RM600 per kg gold processed. If Genneva can refine and mint gold, please let me know as I have gold which I need to refine and mint into hallmark gold.

Reply
    Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

    Hi Mei May,

    I can offer my service to refine your gold and mint it into 999.9 fine gold bars or coins in Singapore with certificate of authenticity. Email me @ [email protected]. if you are interested. And if you do your own design & creation, limited edition, you can market it at a higher price, much better than the goldsmith’s price in Singapore and Malaysia. At least 60% mark up.

    Cheers!

    Dennis Lim
    Gold Trader
    Founder of the Singapore Lion Head Gold Bar

    “With Physical Gold, you will not go bankrupt”

    Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    Hi Lee Mei May and all,

    Indeed GMSB is a goldco and is different from Poh Kong. Take a look at Genneva’s corporate videos (both in English and Mandarin) at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/videos/ — clearly stated there (somewhere in the middle of the video)… their business are:

    * GOLD TRADING
    * GOLD RETAILING
    * GOLD MINING
    * GOLD SMELTING

    Google ‘Gold Smelting Process’ — if you don’t understand the meaning. 😉

    Cheers! 😀

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Hey Pat Lu,
      Please read the M&A of GMSB before making all the claims in written or video form

      Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Pat Lu just waked up from a long slumber or maybe he had been following the 6-D monthly earners overseas to enjoy the new “Life-Style” package offered by GMSB.
1. 999 gold can be sold anywhere
Yes, the question is at what price? No certificate of origin only the celup certificate of ownership. May even have to pay for the testing to confirm that it is pure gold. Please note that all the Hallmark gold is 999.9 gold not 999

2. Made in Malaysia business Model
Maybe a variant but the guy who started with the original model is Benny Madoff and he had smiling customers for more than 20 years. The reason for the goldco being still around is the migration at a time when gold prices is rising due to the world financial mess. Just look at the record.
*The customer pays the full price but the gold is still being rolled by the goldco because the Shariah Committee in its payroll close both eyes to the breach of the Tenet that the shariah compliant company must be already own the product it sells, calling it “technical non-compliance”. The goldco’s smart lawyer have even put in a clause in the Sales and Purchase Agreement to the effect that the gold can be delivered physically or “constructively” which means that when the goldco gives the customer a “Certificate of Ownership”, it is counted as a “constructive” delivery.
Trip to China, is slowly being forgotten
GSB Lucky draw most likely forgotten
Promotions galore. Company very generous to give more to the customers. As KC Liew stressed “if the goldco can work with 1.5% “hibah” why give 2%. Why indeed?

3. Commission payments
Technically, the goldco is not late as the memo said, “after 16th of the following month”. That means they have to the end of the following month to pay.
But, Pat Lu is being forbidden to mention BNM and the number of compliants that have been lodged with BNM regarding late commission.
All the spin about commission payments being “late” due to the workload of the administration is B***S**T as in May 2011, even with the migration, the commission was paid earlier than in earlier months. Why? The migration brings in money mah.

4. Business Model
Pat Lu must have mixed up business model with platforms.
The same business model is used by Bestino, TigNet, GPU, TGL Et El., but with the variance that this goldco is a Scheduled Business/Reporting institution and is Shariah Compliant.
As I mentioned earlier, is it Shariah compliant when it is selling gold it does not own and only using other peoples gold to roll. There-in lies the customers’ biggest risk. Gold is the collateral but for a few days to weeks, the gold is still “being processed”.
THIS IS THE CUSTOMERS BIGGEST RISK AND THIS IS WHERE SOME OF THE FAILED COMPANIES HAVE LEFT A TRAIL OF BROKEN HEARTS/SPIRIT. This only arise when the goldco does not have money to buy the gold, but need to use the customer’s gold to roll.
Its Schedule business model is “Leasing and Factoring” and as BNM had advised customers, “Gold trading” is not under its purview. In order to bring in more customers, this goldco is even willing to go to the extent of canvasing the Minister of Finance to put gold trading under Schedule Business.

5. History
TGL suspension had been lifted but are those who participated in the GSS with gold placed in Cisco getting their gold or money back?
Genneva Sdn. Bhd., the original company which operated this business model is still suspended since nearly 2 years ago with RM67 million of the customers’ money. As reported in the Star, their frozen bank account only has RM20 million and 5 Kilograms of gold. So this goldco is praying that with the trial of its Directors for money laundering and deposit taking, the business is closed forever. When the business model fails for the original goldco, can it happen again? It is not the suspension by BNM, IT IS THE MADE IN MALAYSIA BUSINESS MODEL. MALAYSIA BOLEH.

6. Standard Operating Procedure
Crucial is the handing over of the gold to buyers because this is the collateral – Tailored to suit
Constructive delivery of gold. Is that a loophole being created so that the goldco can get away with only a “Certificate of Ownership”
The “Rebate/discount” and “Hibah” is where the company does not have to pay anything if it is not earning profit and when is the company earning profit? How to earn profit when it is paying earlier customers with money from new customers?
The only thing standard is the eternal change.

7. Telltale signs
* Migration – Is GMSB saying that after one and a half years with Samudra GV that the customers are being lured to a “unsafe” scheme?
* Lucky draw
* China trip
* Promotions galore and consultants being pressured to keep bring in new customers/business to keep the platform alive and buy more time.
* commission payments
All customers and potential customers should do their due diligence as see whether this is where the “FREE LUNCHES” is coming from

8. Addiction
The Goldco uses the customers’ money to keep the consultants addicted and to bring in more customers/business to postphone the implosion. When this happens, this will create a record of sorts with a one billion ringgit going with a big bang and as with big bangs there will be many casualties.
Customers are paying 25% premium on the gold they are buying;
Customers risk all during the period between payment and collection;
Customers to be aware that the “Hibah” they collect may not be able to pay for the balancing charges when they renew the contract, if the price of gold increases at the present rate and they will have to do with less gold.
Happy gold buying

Reply
    Naz says 9 years ago

    Lee Mei May have been endlessly mentioning about the RM67m park in that I noticed, first of all its more than RM67m and secondly it is still being tail gated by PDRM as what Sudra mentioned. The true reason the Datos trial being posponed again and again is because the investigation have not rock bottom yet.

    Inspector Nazmi,Corp crime division,PDRM

    Reply
kuching consultant says 9 years ago

I bank in & submitted on 17/5/2011 for 100g of migration, but today 25/5/2011 i still begging for my so called S&P ! my first migration on 11/5 & collected the Gold on 20/5/2011 but today i still begging for my first hibah cheque!

Reply
    George says 9 years ago

    Didn’t you know the company is a bit on the dry side? What you expect? Stop complaining.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      As PL would have said. “Please resign”
      Don’t you realise the difficulties we are facing having to feed you addicts with Vitamin M? What more, we have to risk the whole platform by not giving the gold to the customers within 3 days as it can be construed as deposit taking. But never mind, we do have friends in high places they will never bite the hand that feeds it. What the hell do you think as being the reason that we are having promotions one after another? You think it is fun to give to those dummies out there more than what we need to keep the platform alive? Why in heaven’s name do we have to “leak” the words out that
      1. The Finance Minister is going to let only “Schedule Business” to carry out gold trading business, in which case we will be the “last man standing” and you will have nowhere else to go to satisfy your addiction;
      2. That we are acquiring a bank. It may be in Timbuktu, but it is a bank. Those country folks will not vet the credentials of the owners/directors like BNM/MAS as long as they are taken care of. We Dato’s can then assume the mantle of Bankers, which can bankroll all our deficits and so you folks out there do not have to worry.
      So after all the explanations and incentives, and if you are still not happy, “Please Resign”

      Reply
        Phillip says 9 years ago

        Well well well Lee Mei May! You want to be Phillip Lim? Why don’t you host the Mondays and Tuesdays meetings instead?

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          What a disgrace to be linked to those slimeballs and spin Dato’s/doctors who keep feeding “drugs” to the CON-SULTANS. Sorry lah, not used to working without Standard Operating Procedure and changing like a chameleon. Got better things to do, profitting from pure gold trade. Why dont’t you concentrate on “cleaning” the Genneva name by paying back all those innocent “Park-In” customers. Nearly 2 years lo. TGL already had the suspension lifted. Genneva Sdn. Bhd. still sequestered. What have you all done?

          Reply
          Magnum PI says 9 years ago

          Yeah, ask the 3 Datos and this Dato to k*ss Teh Hong Piao’s *ss to get the uplift.

          Reply
James Cheang says 9 years ago

I have several investment..

Geneva gold 1kg till date it has bought me 24% till date invested over 1 year. 60k, investment i get bact 14.2k approximate.
Yes you think agent is easy job, you wana try ???? Imagine carry few kg gold sent to client , nothin is easy.

Stock USD trading….
34 kusd initial investment, now 39kusd trade citibank BAC MGM S SLV , loosing alot of sleep …stress to make 5kusd…however i also loose on currency usd vs sgp 1.34 now 1.23 !!!!!!!

Other cash …seat in local bank…0 growth 50-60k…. rainly seaon

Unit trust …still lost 30% till date 20k investment …

As you can see this so call genneva gold gave me best return. even if the company bankrupt I still keep the gold. For stock I
trade weekly , market is volitale your stock mayb become paper next day you wake up.

No pain no gain… no free lunch … BTW money is just paper … just treat it as paper, even if you loose it nothin big deal right ?

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    joey says 9 years ago

    WAIT UNTIL YOU GET CHEATED BY THE CON MEN AND END UP LIKE MY AUNT IN HOSPITAL, YOU STUPID FOOL ! BY THE WAY MY AUNT MENTION THAT THE AGENT NAME IS SIMON, A YOUNG MAN. DOES ANYONE HAVE HIS NUMBER!!!!

    Reply
      Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

      Simon Yau? Just go to North Point Mid Valley 21st floor, GrandTag A2A Capital office, you can find him there. However A2A is still run by the goofs that runs Gold Label

      Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    It is really pathetic that whenever there is a comparison or returns on investments, it is invariably with the “ZERO SUM” games such as Mutual funds, stocks, Forex, commodities and such like/variant, where
    WINNER + COMMISSION AGENTS = LOSERS
    Please focus on your objective, which is to protect your savings/fund’s purchase power and where winning is not losing.
    Hence, the need to think “out of the box”
    Since you enterred SGV one year ago, the price in May 2010 is USD1200 per ounce. The May 2011 price is around USD1,480 per ounce. Hence the value of the gold had gone up by USD280 per ounce or 23.33%
    Assuming you had purchase PAMP gold with certificate of origin in May 2010, it would have costed 3% above LME spot and if you had sold the gold in May 2011 at 5% below LME spot
    Your buying price is USD1236/oz
    Your selling price is USD1406
    Your net profit is USD170/oz or 14.17%
    With SGV
    Your buy at about RM152 per gram in May 2010
    In May 2011 you sell at RM183 per gram
    End 2010, when your half year tenure expire, you pay RM21/gm to re-balancing to RM173 per gram which is the then price and you collect RM173 per gram in May 2011 on completion of another half year tenure.
    Therefore, your discount amount to
    12% at RM152 per gram (May 2010 to Nov 2010) +
    12% at RM173 per gram (Nov 2010 to May 2011)
    which amount to 24% per year
    What happens in the event the following were to happen in the period May 2010 to May 2011 :
    1. Goldco suspended and investigated by the authorities;
    2. If the goldco go out of business
    2.1 When you are yet to collect your gold after purchase;
    You lose everything since it is not capital protected
    2.2 After gold collection
    No more discount
    Sell the gold outside at 25- 30% discount
    Well, balance your risks and decide on your destiny.

    Reply
Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

So this month again our commissions late? I start to wonder is the company sustaining financially?

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    This month’s GMSB commission payment started on Friday, 20/5/2011 with those in PL, Fat Mama and their downline. The goldco now have money from the migration top up. It is also rumored that hot money is coming in with one transaction of 30 kg last week which profit will cover slightly over 20% of the commission payment.

    Reply
      Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

      Then what happens when the new money runs out again?

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Ways to generate income
        1. Save money on buying gold by extending the period between purchase and delivery of gold. Use other people’s gold to roll;
        2. Get CON-SULTANs to con more people to buy gold and make the 25% profit on new sales;
        3. Open more branches and use the opportunity for promotion with 2% hibah. Customers will think this is good deal as the normal is 1.5% hibah per month;
        4. Worse case scenerio, where customers have to be extra careful, is to have continuous promotions, one after another like what happened before the migration.
        I am sure these motivated people can think of more ways than the above.
        Watch out for new developments.

        Reply
          Pat Lu says 9 years ago

          Of course lah. Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd is a gold merchant. They refine and mint gold for sale with a difference, with a NEW business model. As we all know, no other goldsmiths share their profit as Genneva does. Genneva doesn’t just sell gold and stop there. They have an innovative business model, the first of it’s kind in the world (Made in Malaysia) and replicated in Singapore, Philippines, China and Hongkong.

          Genneva’s vision is to become Asia’s Largest and Fastest Growing One-Stop Gold Trading Corporation with a mission to provide buyers with the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold. They have fulfilled all BNM’s requirements.

          AND as buyers, we are all holding the gold in hand while enjoying the Hibah that is higher than FD. So what’s wrong with that, really?

          Cheers! 🙂

          Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
          Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

          Reply
        BBQ says 9 years ago

        Lee MM has the very accurate description of signs of trouble, I have seen these signs in other goldco before they collapse, TGL was one of them. As for now the migration of GMSB has raised some funds to hang on for a while but over time it can deplete. I don’t know how many of you actually has the full knowledge of the formula but if you understand it completely you will know the bigger the portfolio the harder to sustain.

        Reply
    Kardashan says 9 years ago

    All the while was usually the comms out promptly on 15th of each month, since couple of months back before the migration frenzy they started delay until 20th and after, isn’t this some signs of money defieciency?

    Reply
      Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

      That’s why many con-sultans lost confidence in the company.

      Reply
joey says 9 years ago

I DIDNT WRITE THAT THE AGENT IS JEFF MEDINA. I SAW SOMEONE USING MY NAME TO REPLY TO LEE MAY MAY.
SO U MEANS THE BOSSES ARE THE CROOKS BEHIND THIS COMPANY ?? WHERE R THEY NOW

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Joey,
    Whoever operates a scam/ponzi is a crook and is responsible for their actions, be it the bosses or their agents. But, Joey, please keep cool, but follow closely. It is slightly over one year from the date BNM raided TGL and suspended its operation. The Genneva “Park-in” subscribers had been waiting since 21/07/2009.

    Reply
Aziz says 9 years ago

Yang sebenarnya, berapakah keuntungan sebulan jika kita melabur sebanyak 300 g dalam Geneeva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd. Tolong berikan jawapan. Saya amat memerlukan maklumat.

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Enc. Aziz,
    Mengikut harga Jumaat ini, ia-itu RM183/gram, kalau Enc. beli 300 gram perlu bayar RM54,900.00 di mana nilai emas yang kamu dapat ia lah 80% ia-itu RM43,920 dan untung Genneva is lah RM10,980 atau 20% dari harga penjualan atau juga 25% dari harga pembelian jika mereka beli dalam sama hari.
    Dalam scheme biasa (bukan promosi) hibah yang di beri ia lah 1.5% dari harga pembelian, ia itu RM823.50 se-bulan untuk 6 bulan berjumlah RM4,941.00. Jika kamu sama masa jadi konsultan, dari pada 300 gram yang di beli, kamu boleh dapat 0.5% commission untuk 250 gram saja (50 gram tidak ada komisyan), ia itu RM183 x 250gram x 0.5% = RM228.75 per bulan atau 1,372.50 untuk 6 bulan.
    Pada hujung bulan enam, kamu perlu jual emas kepada Genneva dengan harga RM54,900 walaupun harga emas telah meningkat/merosot dan jika Encik Aziz mahu menandatangani kontrak baru, kamu perlu beli emas dengan harga semasa itu (current price at time of re-purchase).
    Jika harga masa itu RM200 se-gram, pembeli perlu bayar RM60,000 untuk membeli 300 gram dan dapat resiki untuk 6 bulan lagi.

    Reply
Pillay says 9 years ago

i m trying to locate Sue How of TGL, i actually signed up to buy the gold in GD but she put in the form in GSS, when it comes to delivery of gold she said the gold is in Cisco Singapore, i was jolted but its too late to do anything, that was what i thought, she assured me its the safest place and easy when renewal, dont have to bring the gold up and down, only 1 month later the company was frozen and all my 3 kgs of it gone. Anybody knows where she is?

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Pillay,
    The other arm of the company is still in operation with land banking and it is not difficult to find the crowd. The GSS is like the Genneva Sdn Bhd “Park-in” scheme where your money is parked into the pockets of the company. CISCO may have some sample gold and the company external auditors should audit the gold in CISCO to match the amount of GSS purchases. If there is any discrepancy should be investigated as a breach of trust.. In the case of Genneva Sdn. Bhd. the external auditors had been negligent in not auditing the books since all documents had been returned by BNM to the goldco. No report in 2009 or 2010 and now it is mid-2010. Wake up SSM/CCM.

    Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Dear Joey,
Your aunt is not stupid as the list of those who went into TGL scheme included many professionals and banking seniors. Calm your aunt down and let her know that there are people out here who would like to help.
To start the process, please post the name of the agent who got your aunt into this mess.
I would like to communicate with you directly if you will leave your e-mail or you can e-mail me at : [email protected]

Reply
    joey says 9 years ago

    HE IS JEFF MEDINA.

    Reply
    Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

    Hi Joey,

    I am willing to buy from her the gold bar at S$3.00 above the used gold market price i.e. S$63 per g that she bought from Gold Label since this is her coffin money. You may email me @ [email protected] and see how to arrange to get from you as I am in Singapore.

    Cheers!

    Dennis Lim
    Gold Trader
    Founder of Singapore Lion Head Gold Bar.

    “With Physical Gold, you will not go bankrupt”

    Reply
    joey says 9 years ago

    HI IM SORRY MY AUNT IS IN HOSPITAL NOW AS SHE JUST FELL DOWN FROM STAIRS. I ASKED HER JUST NOW SHE TOLD ME SHE WENT TO THE GOLD LABEL OFFICE IN GARDENS AND THE AGENT INTRODUCE HER TO THE BOSSES, ONE FAT CHINESE LADY, A CAUCASIAN MAN AND FILIPINO MAN. THE CHINSE LADY TOLD HER THAT THEY WILL HELP HER TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, BUT LOOK WAT HAPPEN. BY THE WAY I DIDNT WROTE THE COMMENT UP THERE, WHO IS JEFF MEDINA.
    AND SOMEONE SAID JUST NOW THAT NOW THE PPL INVOLVED HAVE SET UP A NEW COMPANYU. HOW CAN THAT BE. IF THEY DIDNT TAKE PPLS MONEY HOW CAN THEY SET UP AN EW COMPANY. HOW CAN THEY JUST WASH THEIR HANDS LIKE THAT
    TELL ME WHERES THE OFFICE,

    Reply
      Sudra says 9 years ago

      Jeff Madina is the Filiphino man u mentioned here, are u confused who is who? The fat lady is Sue How,half the TGL clients are hunting her down and the mat salleh is James Iseli.

      Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Joey,
      Sorry to hear about your aunt’s fall. To help her to recover fast and hopefully to recover the money she had put into TGL, you have to instill in her the hope and not despondency. We will try to do what we can.
      From your description of the people your aunt met at Mid Valley (I think it is Northpoint and not the Garden – anyway it does matter now)
      The Fat Lady is Sue How
      The Philipino is Jeff Medina and under him there are group managers such as Agnes Goh and managers Daniel Lee, etc
      The big friendly MatSalleh culup is James Iseli, a Brazilian.
      Since, this group is still in land banking and TGL is suspended by Bank Negara Malaysia (not in voluntary Liquidation like in Singapore), there is still hope. The important thing now is to try and gather all the documents and see who are the parties who sold the gold to your aunt. Did she get it directly from Sue How, the fat lady or was it another fat lady Rita Goh who is now with Genneva or was it someone else?

      Reply
        Hitler says 9 years ago

        Almost all the names u mentioned here are people of no integrity,some have conveniently moved on to Genneva and forget about the people they f..ked up with their Gold Label sh..! I have yet to confront the other fat woman who left me out to dry while she conveniently moved on to Genneva for another round of gold mining.

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          Dear Hitler,
          Invariably all the Senior CON-SULTANS and CON-SULTANS are at the Monday and Tuesday meeting between 6.00 pm and 7.30 pm. Of couse during the trading hours they will either be submitting their CPs, making payments or collecting their contracts, gold and Hibah. Now is a good time as commission is being paid. Goldco got money already with all the migration and topping up or re-balancing. Welcome to the world of spin and slime. As for me buy low and sell high. Why pay 25% mark up and get a useless ownership cert when I can have the cert of origin. I can sleep easy knowing that I am the master of my destiny and not leave my destiny to some slimeball.

          Reply
          Sean says 9 years ago

          i know in TGL she abandoned a lot of clients. She has been romouring around to people she knows that other goldcos are on the brink of collapsing, hope this dont happens to Genneva or else she has no face to join other goldcos.

          Reply
          99% fat free says 9 years ago

          I think i know this person who was telling the world other than genneva all the other goldcos not safe, thats funny becos last time she in gold label she said genneva is not safe.

          Reply
          2% hibah 98% fats says 9 years ago

          Heck, what is she doing in Genneva then if thinks it’s not safe in the first place?

          Reply
        H2 says 9 years ago

        I am simply surprised to see someone here mentioned that person joined Genneva. When she was with The Gold Label she adviced me againsts investing in that company with various reasons,mostly trust issues and I listened thus invested with Gold Label. Lucky me I did not take up the Singapore park in scheme.

        Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Sean,
      This CON-SULTAN will con, bite and claw her way to join the elite club of 6-digit income earners. Does she care about those who become her victims? Customers beware! She is the survivarist who will abandon ship and her customers the moment she sense the ship is sinking. Many from TGL will regard her as the saviour who brought them back on the income stream but note that with this business model, history will keep repeating itself and he who does not learn from history will repeat history.

      Reply
        terrence tee says 9 years ago

        i think all the TGL con-sultans knows this lady as the female version of noise above voices, the bising one but when the ship sank is different story.

        Reply
        Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

        I donno if it’s the Rita in Gold Label before , is she the one quite big size one with specs? If she’s the one then ya i remember she told us people in Gold Label that Samudra is not safe. So now very safe is it?

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          Your description fits the Rita who is now a CON-SULTAN in GMSB. Drive a Perdana V6 and most of her clients were ex-Gold Label. Very selfish and only have her interest and agenda in mind.

          Reply
        Hipocracy For Dummies says 9 years ago

        When gold label having good time, Samudra is bad, when go over to Samudra then is good ,others bad… So I think the people she recruited to Samudra or now Genneva will also will be the same type of bozos like her. With that type of leader will get that type of downlines.

        Reply
          BBQ says 9 years ago

          Omg! Poor woman kena taruh by the ex-cons of TGL. Let this sensation serves as lesson to us all, when you are on board a top end vessel,never look down and spike the underdog competitors, you never know when the winds can change directions.

          Reply
Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

Speaking of park ins, GMSB will park in customers’ gold for almost a week each time he does a renewal isn’t it?

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Any period of delivery of gold, after receipt of full payment, which exceed 72 hours is considered as deposit taking. However, it looks like BNM is shutting both eyes by “seeing no evil, hearing no eveil and saying no eveil” unless somebody reports officially.
    The agony of Joey’s aunt should wake up the customers. As for the consultants, there is no salvation in sight as they are addicted until …………….

    Reply
      Tampin Gold Agent says 9 years ago

      It seems BNM has shut their eyes on these gold businesses and also washed their hands with Dettol, lol.

      Reply
Magnum PI says 9 years ago

In this gold portfolio, it’s all about the gold in your hand while it churns returns month to month, it makes no sense if anyone would go for park in schemes regardless if it’s supposedly park in to Singapore or simply paper gold. No one should take this platform for granted that it would absolutely be long term, regardless if it’s above board or not, gold in hand is security that never go wrong.

Reply
    Tampin Gold Agent says 9 years ago

    Yes agreed, always keep gold regardless, now there may not be threat from officials but management could be the issue if any company goes down.

    Reply
    Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

    Not just gold in hand, make sure it’s PAMP Suisse 999.9 with certificate in hand.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Uncle Gold,

      SGV/GMSB dies not give Certificate of Origin. Only their own worthless cerfificate of ownership. Their gold has origin from a “rojak basket” such as korean, nikko, mitsubishi, bunga raya and of course the PAMP Suisse 999.9 gold. The customers holding the gold is being used so that the goldco can benefit from any price increase in the gold and the customers cannot profit from it by selling outside. The other, killing 2 birds with one stone, method of ensuring that the customer cannot sell the gold outside is the huge mark up on the gold price which gives them an instant profit of at least 25%.

      Reply
      Pat Lu says 9 years ago

      Hi Lee Mei May,

      What you term as GMSB’s ‘rojak basket’ of gold, are registered with the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) and are recognized worldwide. View the list at http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=29&title=gold_list

      Cheers! 🙂

      Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
      Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

      Reply
joey says 9 years ago

I REALLY HATE THOSE IRRESPONSIBLE CONSULTANTS WHOM SOLD THIS THING TO MY AUNT. SHES BEEN CRYING AND HAVING INSOMNIA FOR MONTHS. ITS HER FUNERAL MONEY. I HOPE IF SHE DOES NOT GET BACK HER MONEY, YOU IDIOT GOLD CONSULTANTS WILL ROT IN HELL AND YOUR GENERATION WILL PERISH. IF U DONT KNOW OF YOUR PRODUCT, PLEASE DONT SELL IT. DONT THROW PPL’S HARD EARNED MONEY TO THE SEA AND WALK AWAY. ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT BACK 1000X WORSE!!!

Reply
    BBQ says 9 years ago

    First of all, is your aunt invested in the GSS (Singapore Cisco scheme) or she has the gold with her? If she has the gold with her she can now sell for RM143-145 per GM today, many goldcos would buy it in cash term. If she invested in GSS I m very sorry for her.

    Reply
      joey says 9 years ago

      THE AGENT SAID THAT BN HAS ALREADY FROZE THE GOLD LABEL ACCOUNT N TRANSFERRED IT TO THE GSS SKIM I BELIEVE, THE ONE WITHOUT THE PAPER. HE PROMISE THAT THE SKIM IS SAFE, BUT NOW HE IS NO WHERE TO BE SEEN.

      I HATE YOU STUPID GOLD CONSULTANTS. ITS VERY FOR YOU TO SAY OH IM SORRY YOU LOST YOUR MONEY. WELL I HOPE RETRIBUTION PAYS NEXT TIME WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR WHOLE MONEY BUT WHOLE LOT WORSE N GOOD FOR THAT CONSULTANT WHO COMMITED SUICIDE. HE PAID WITH HIS LIFE

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear Joey,
        When you mentioned BNM, it indicates that it is in Malaysia. In Malaysia, BNM had suspended The Gold Label and unlike in Singapore when the company had gone into voluntary liquidation. I understand your anguish and that of your aunt. The important thing now is after TGL had been suspended from operation by BNM many of the TGL agents had jumped over to rival goldcos. It is therefore important that you stay calm and trace those who sold the gold to your aunt. Just put up the name on this forum and other forumers should be able to help you. Remember, TGL also has another arm doing land banking. Therefore it is important you start to identify the people who had got your aunt into this horrible mess. The goldco where many of the agents jumped to is having meetings with its consultants on Mondays and Tuesdays from 6.00 pm to 7.30 pm. maybe if you bring your aunt there (Kuchai Lama Business Park) your aunt may be able identify the agent who got her into this mess.

        Reply
        Sean says 9 years ago

        The agent’s name is found on your TGL invoice, post it here and see if we know him/her.

        Reply
        Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

        Let’s put this website to good use, for those agents who run away from their clients when their company goes down,put his name here and may he be hunted down and whack him until his mother can’t recognize him.

        Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear Joey,
        There is a lot of good hearted people out there who is sticking out for you and your aunt. Please do not wallow in self pity and the urge for vengence. The most important thing is to get justice for your aunt

        Reply
          joey says 9 years ago

          I’VE ALREADY TOLD MY AUNT ABOUT THIS WEBSITE AND SHE IS NOW CRYING HYSTERICALLY. U KNOW SHE IS 74, AND SHE IS A SPINSTER WHO WORK ALMOST HER ENTIRE LIFE TO SAVE FOR HER RAINY DAYS. SHE KNOWS VERY BASIC ENGLISH N MANDARIN N SOME FOOL CHEATED HER OFF HER MONEY. NOW SHE IS THREATENING TO KILL HERSELF AND BLAME HERSELF FOR BEING SO STUPID. IM TRYING TO CALM HER DOWN TO TRACK DOWN THE AGENT WHO ACTUALLY CONNED HER OFF THE MONEY. AS FOR THE COMPANY DIRECTORS, CAN ANYONE GIVE ME THEIR NUMBERS ? OR AT LEAST THEIR NAMES ? I WANT TO KNOW WHO ARE THE PERSONS BEHIND ALL THESE NONSENSE !!
          AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK LEE MAY MAY AND OTHERS WHO TRY TO HELP. THANKS FOR GIVING ME ALL THE INFORMATION

          Reply
        Sudra says 9 years ago

        Usually the rookies agents are the ones who would not take responsibilities when their company folds up,simply they do not know what to do,so the best thing to do is to ignore and hide, on the other hand seasoned agents dare to face it. As we know mostly the newbies are the ones conduct the business without knowledge and just bullshit their way to the closure of sales, although been through training but no experience , sadly after TGL we seems to find heaps of these newbies in GMSB who don’t understand lawful practice and decline the rules of engagement.

        Reply
          Magnum PI says 9 years ago

          What matters to the company now is SIZE, they are proud of their 2000 agents in their force, with only 1% of it commit unlawful practice and do funny things is enough to send the company into the shit hole.

          Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          Dear Sudra,
          It is not only the rookies who goes into hiding. Can anybody contact Sue How who heads TGL or other Senior agents many of whom are Group Managers who have headed to “greener pastures” and do not want to be reminded of this part of their “career history”. These are already addicted to the life-style afforded to them by the goldcos building their “nest eggs” on the tears, sweat and blood of the customers and assuring their customers of how secure the scheme is. The customer should ask “secure for whom”?
          The next thing to beware is the time lapse between paying and getting the gold. If anything happens in this period, it is Sayonara to the hard earned cash.
          Anyway, what is so appealing to have to be in the scheme for at least 20 months to break even if the goldco folds-up. (25% mark up on buying and 5% discount on selling outside with the hibah at 1.5% per month).
          What happened in TGL also happened in Genneva Sdn. Bhd. with the Park in scheme. Maybe Malaysian “mudah lupa”.

          Reply
    Golden says 9 years ago

    Joey,

    someone posted in the gold label section that the people involved are James Iseli, Sue How, Marcus, Jeff and Hans. You can go to the gold label section and do a search.

    according to that post, the person says that they are now running A2A Capital Mgt Sdn Bhd, some land banking company. You probably can find these people that is responsible for your aunt’s predicament at the A2A office?

    Reply
joey says 9 years ago

hi guys, can i know wat is the status of gold label. my aunty has invested a sum there, but have not got back her money since. the agent was no where to be contacted and she went to d co and check but was told d status is unknown. plz help

Reply
    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Joey,

    does your aunt still have her gold? Likely she has to settle for that.

    Reply
    Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

    Hi Joey,

    If your aunt wants to dispose her gold from Gold Label, just let me know. I can buy from her if she is in Singapore.

    Thanks.

    Dennis Lim
    Gold Trader
    Founder of Singapore Lion Head Gold Bar

    “With Physical Gold, you will noy go bankrupt”

    Reply
Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

We have brought up 2 events herein recently, i.e. the final closure akin to the one the American just had with the Death of Osama Bin Laden, but ours is with the seriously biased allegations and malicious accusations toward Genneva and also the stellar strategy of trapping the very malicious and prejudiced minds via self-exposure traps that we hope may bring to an end all these futile debates and foolish reasonings of the many smart-alacks with regards to the Cash Flow Program by Genneva and its competitors.

Let’s move on, what say you?

Reply
    Magnum PI says 9 years ago

    Frankly, I say you should move on and move out of this thread, you seems like an American guy trying to preach American legacy to the Ghadafi’s followers.

    Reply
    BBQ says 9 years ago

    The noisy fella don’t speak the right language here, it’s time he/they bring his/their comments elsewhere. This thread is more of a consultants territory.

    Reply
Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

TERMAKAN UMPAN (taken the bait) finally?

With regards to our strategy to jolt and jolt and jolt further the many prejudiced minds, plus our declarations that we have been in the midst of TENGAH PANCING DIA ORANG DENGAN UMPAN, we hope this will mark the final closure to all these very ridiculous nonsense, foolishness, ignorance and futile debates among the many questioning minds herein.

We also wonder if some of you needed more time to digest what’s happening and to grasp correctly, comprehending the breadth and depth of how far have we gone to.

We have been intending to nab these prejudiced, malicious minds on the hook and get fully self-exposed and to educate them to be more human, more reasonable, and more responsible, LESS naive, LESS ignorant and LESS arrogance, LESS overly self-righteous in making their very remarks, drawing their very conclusions from their very own opinions and making their very judgement calls from now on. At least, be objective, be fair, be well-informed and NOT TO BE UTTERLY PREJUDICED. And please, no place for malice.

We really wonder how do these prejudiced, some even malicious, minds feel now. You are feel to comment though.

Do they feel like TERMAKAN UMPAN, having taken the bait? Do they feel like they are the one who expose themselves “accidentally”? Don’t you agree the strategy is rather stellar?

Come on … Let’s move onto more fruitful and productive engagements, what say you people? Comments welcomed.

Reply
Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

Dear all, esp. those very prejudiced minds,

Both Wylan & MAgnum PI have asked: Why are we so concerned in defending Genneva? Does the company belongs to us?

Well, how about these very prejudiced minds themselves?

Why are they so concerned as well and does the company belongs to them? Perhaps, more specifically – are they NOT having a grudge, MALICIOUS INTENT, some hidden agendas or simply prejudiced or perhaps simply yet grossly mis-informed? It is just a simple YES or NO.

Well, it is only naturally understandable AND only acceptable that one must be of either reasons mentioned in our fourth paragraph when they kept attacking the company, i.e. Genneva relentlessly yet claimed to be doing so for transparency and on behalf of the many so-called victims, uncles and aunties. Claiming otherwise is unnatural and simply so hypocritical!!

Hence, we decided to post herein too despite the fact that we are not consultants. Of course, the objective is to jolt and jolt the many prejudiced minds with a stellar strategy.

How? What strategy? – you may ask.

Well, by clearing the air and restoring reasonableness, by defending what’s truthful while all these while being independent, not siding Genneva or any side, the many prejudiced minds such as yours will start to question if we are indeed consultants. Since we are not, why be bothered? Why defend the company or at least seems to be so?

Many will ask – how could one claim to be independent yet seems to be defending the company. Cannot be!!

Oh, yes! “Cannot be!!” is the aim, “Cannot be!!” is the objective, the climax, the destination, the achievement, the ultimate goals of ours.

Once you think that this “cannot be!!”, it will be the the right moment, it will be ripe that we direct you the following …

===

How could they NOT be having a grudge, MALICIOUS INTENT, some hidden agendas or simply prejudiced or perhaps simply yet grossly mis-informed when they kept feeding on each other’s poisonous faeces and in turn excrete their own versions later? That’s so unbelievable!

===

Well, well, well .. We aim to bring that very question back to the many prejudiced minds, the very owners of these created, fabricated, biased opinions. Please do NOT be hypocritical if you indeed are. Don’t claim that you represent the so-called victims, uncles and aunties and so on and so forth when you yourself are the culprits behinds all these fabricated stories, lies and more lies, highly irresponsible and heavily-biased comments.

You got it now?

Your prejudiced mind jolted now? Is our strategy working?

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Hey, Noiseman,

    What a mouthful. “Syiok sendiri”.
    Objective to jolt jolt the prejudiced mind, prejudiced by what and how? By the vulgarity and rudeness of your input.
    Just tell us
    1. What happened to the RM67 million parked in fund? Are the Directors of GSB still involved with GMSB?
    2. Did SGV seek the approval of the customers to migrate their accounts to GMSB?
    3. PL mentioned that the Minister of Finance will with a stroke of the pen sign an order which will only allow Scheduled Businesses/Reporting Institution to carry the gold trading business. Is it an established fact and what is the time frame?

    Reply
      Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

      I only have a few questions for you Mr.Noise, answer it if you can, don’t answer it if you can’t then forever hold your peace.

      Why are our comms delayed?

      Why is our Beijing trip which is the trophy for our target achievement delayed by so long or perhaps canceled?

      Why is Samudra GV wants to shut down so abruptly and forced all the customer to migrate immediately?

      Why is the customers’ gold delivery delayed by almost a week upon renewal?

      If between the delivery waiting period, something happens to the company, who will take responsibility ?

      Why are the consultants banned from roadshows? Land banking companies were not banned,why should we? We are incoporated with BNM isn’t it? At least thats what the management claimed.

      Appreciate if you can shed some light with us, thank u very much.

      Reply
      BBQ says 9 years ago

      Uncle Gold, he don’t have any answers for you. He don’t even knows what is he saying.

      Reply
      Dari Sekinchan says 9 years ago

      Lee Mei May, your description no.3. – I wonder how this gonna work? It would surely raise eye brows of MACC of whats in it for the Minister Of Finance to agree on such thing?

      Noise above Voices, if you are not an agent of the company I doubt you know how the agents feels about the company, so you should stop commenting here.

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        My friend dari Sekinchan,
        This was mentioned by Hakgopal at the Seminar for Shariah compliant platform and AMLA & BAFIA and BNM observers were sitting at the front row. With the announcement of the migration from SGV to GMSB, it was repeated by PL. Of course, in my view this is a scam to get more kiasu customers to come into the “last man standing”. Does this show how desparate the goldco is?

        Reply
        BBQ says 9 years ago

        If you are someone in power,would you authorize a policy to allow an entity to dominate the industry and you do it for free? Absolutely free? I hope it happens,then there will be a chapter in the MACC, Minister Of Finance and Tuan Haji propaganda drama. Some very public people will be eager to make it a big sensation if this ever happens, you should know who I meant.

        Reply
    Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

    I remembered a fellow in the TGL thread by the name of Ashoka, he was the TGL version of the noiseman, he invaded the thread defending TGL with his heart and soul until the D-Day, til now no sign of him.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Nathan,
      The Noiseman is not an apologist for the goldco. He is one of the top honco. Notice, he always invariable use the plural to denote that he is speaking on behalf of the others in his cabal. His truth is the same “truth” spewed by PL & CK at meetings and his “strategy” is to spin until kingdom come in order that there is always new customers coming in so that the scheme will not collapse. He may get lucky but remember lady luck is capricious.

      Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    You see, you see …

    If those prejudiced minds could not believe what we have disclosed, despite the fact that we have got nothing to do with Genneva, how could these prejudiced minds in turns expect the rest of us to believe all the nonsense and fabricated “truths” that they have posted herein if they are not having malicious intent, hidden agendas and a deep hatred and discontent seeing other people succeed.

    Under so-called ‘normal’ circumstances, we should not have taken a stand against these prejudiced minds but we realize that being investors, not consultants and not any part of Genneva’s management, our stand is pivotal, almost history-making as this will jolt and jolt the many very prejudiced minds in dis-belief. LOL!!

    We believe the stellar strategy is working very effectively in which they didn’t even realized that they have taken the bait and self-expose themselves and their very own character in the process. God is Great!!

    Nathan is trying to say that but he is so wrong – his days are numbered but not ours. How could that be?

    Well, remember that we are not consultants. We are not even part of Genneva’s management. We are only a group of investors who got pissed off with very overly self-righteous yet biased and prejudiced minds trying to intoxicate the rest of us with their version of fabricated “truths” and therefore, how could our days be numbered?

    Mind-boggling to these prejudiced minds, hah? So be it.

    The rest of us are not intellectually-

    Reply
      Sudra says 9 years ago

      Frankly speaking, we don’t need someone here to tell us how righteous is the company and defend their points when in reality the company consider their consultants as fools. The noisiest guy here knows nothing about the consultantship because he is not one. He only interested to defend to protect the platform either to save guard his investment in the company or he’s simply Phillip Lim. Either or is no matter to anyone here in this blog community, as we can see most of us here feels being treated unrightously. So why would anyone here would take his statements in to account? For he being the hero on the wrong side.

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear All,
        As I had mentioned in my earlier thread, the noiseman is either W*****m (as in the conquorer) and S***y (as in bright hot weather) and both the surnames are kingdoms mentioned in the romances of the 3 kingdoms and their Kuan Ti is PL.
        Why when the goldco is putting money into the accounts of the consultants and customers are these people having so many grouses :
        1. There is lack of Transparancy;
        2. Changes are invariably never given in the written form, hence whichever position taken by the consultant can be conveniently interpreted as the wrong one;
        3. Consultants have the bear the blunt of the customers’ anger due to the constant changes;
        4. The Clique is reaping windfall profits from the RM10,000 blood, tear and sweat money from the “Senior” consultants;
        5. There is no “standard operating procedures”;
        6. The business model sustainability is suspect.
        PL, KC had warned against the use of the term “investor” in respect of the customer or purchaser, but the noiseman mentioned that he/she is the representative of the “investors” which place him/her as having invested in the goldco.

        Reply
    Sean says 9 years ago

    You ask us of our agendas, then what is your agenda? Since you said you are not a consultant and don’t own the company in anyway? , secondly you speak of the word ‘transparency’ , I haven’t seen any yet so far by the company.

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Okay, okay. Just like you guys, we have a hidden agenda too. It is equally malicious just like yours.

      Our hidden agenda is to expose you guys through self-exposure via the stellar strategy that we recently declared to you guys.

      We take pride, we take credit in exposing all your lies, half-truths, all your nonsense and what’s not, And this is our hidden agenda. Tough for you guys, hah? Good, hmm, Great!

      Reply
      Sean says 9 years ago

      Expose what lies may I ask? Is it the comms delay? Is it the forced migrations? Is it the company dont honour their integrity? Since u are not a consultant, what do u know? U are not unfairly treated. U don’t speak on behalf of the consultants, so who do u speak for? Dato Ng? Phillip Lim? Tuan Haji?

      Reply
    Kardashan says 9 years ago

    Since he said he’s no consultant in the company, he won’t know the mistreatment the consultants have to face, he won’t experience the comms delay,he won’t have to be dictated by the company, he’s not forced to pay unnecessary money for nothing ie. Goldbeam and the ever escalating training costs, he won’t get told in the face to leave if u don’t like it by PL then all your customers go to the company,lastly he’s not one of the rm67m park in victims.

    Reply
    Serene Sia says 9 years ago

    So mr noiseman, you like to speak for Dato Ng and Phillip Lim? So consultants in the company are idiots? Where is the company today if not for the consultants may I ask? So who should refrain from talking cock here? Have you no remorse for the poorly treated consultants, of corse why do you care? You are not one of them.

    Reply
    Magnum pI says 9 years ago

    Seriously noisy guy, as we can see clearly here, the people here don’t welcome your comments, if you don’t speak for them don’t speak at all, if you can’t be hero of the day then don’t be enemy of the state.

    Reply
    Nee Hoon Tan says 9 years ago

    Noise man has only rubbish in him, nothing more. To reply to what he says will be an insult to us. So far, the moment he comes in, simply skip whatever rubbish that he is going to vomit out. It is a shame such a person is around in this forum. Lioninvestor should take him out totally.

    Reply
      lioninvestor says 9 years ago

      Nee Hoon Tan,

      Actually a lot of his comments have been censored already. Otherwise, the noise would have been deafening.

      Reply
        Nee Hoon Tan says 9 years ago

        Well, if you don’t take him out, there is no need to censor him either. He is not even worth a single eyeball on him, why waste our time on him? So far everything he said, I skip. Just that it is wasting the space on this forum, making it more messy.

        Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

The noiseman must be one of the 2 with surnames sounding like 2 of the kingdoms named in the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms and who are having a court case arising from GSB AMLA and BAFIA. Anyway, since quoting from the Bible, he has at least refrain from valgarity and profanity.

Reply
    Sean says 9 years ago

    The way the Noiseman speaks sounded so alike PL , I wonder if is he?

    Reply
Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

For those who are protective of the ‘gold titanic’ , may I say this, remember those who were protective of the gold label. They were proven so wrong and extinct in this blog site. Whatever positiveness you have about this titanic gold mine,is it absolutely guaranteed?

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Wylan,

    Genneva Sdn. Bhd. used the RM67 million from the “Park-in” to start their business in China and the 3 directors of GSB is still pulling all the strings in GMSB while their Bumi partners pull the strings in the govt department. If you believe PL, GMSB will be the “last man standing” after the finance minister with a stroke of his pen will declare that only Reporting Institutions will be able to trade gold legally. What is going to happen to all those poor goldsmiths who had been in the business for donkey years? So the govt is going to regulate the gold business? Or, is it a scam to make people rush to save the sinking Titanic with new input? Purchasers will be finding out very soon, but sorry, too late lah.

    Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    TQ, Wylan.

    You are so wise …

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Sean, can you please refrain from making comments that are strictly based on your own opinion that are neither correct nor accurate? That is for your own good, Sean. TQ, Sean.

      Reply
    Sean says 9 years ago

    Wylan:
    I remembered clearly more than a year ago on the Gold Label thread, those pro Gold Label rebels were just all out to protect and defend, then after May 2010 they were no sign of them at all.

    Lee M M:
    How could anyone believe that the Malay partner could get the finance minister to authorize a crunch on the goldsmiths? We are talking about Poh Kong, Tomei and all other retail goldsmiths will be affected. Then the next thing will spark curiosity with MACC on what are the ministers getting for doing that?

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Sean, your fabricated story is getting interesting.

      We suggest that you make a movie out of it.

      Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Sean,
      I did pose a question as to whether it is a scam to get the CON SULTANS to bring in more new business or get more business from existing customers as they desparately need money to turn. Hence the migration for SGV ti GMSB to benefit from the topping up/re-balancing. This goldco is desparate to get funds by any mean. Kiasu Singaporeans are cautious after the MAS Investor Alert and only the Uncles and Aunties may be coming in.

      Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Sean said “I remembered clearly more than a year ago on the Gold Label thread, those pro Gold Label rebels were just all out to protect and defend, then after May 2010 they were no sign of them at all.”

      That’s exactly what we wrote about more than 6-months ago.

      Let’s re-visit this one-, two- or even three-years from now and see for yourself what shameful legacy have you left behind for us to remember you by your irresponsible and shallow vision.

      What if this model of business proven correct and everybody, esp. the investors, come out happier, more satisfied and yet the goldco still operating profitably?

      What will Sean says then? And will Sean eats his own words then?

      Will Sean? Will Sean eats up all his own words that he has uttered due to his shallow thinking and lack of vision? Will he?

      Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    Wylan wrote: “Whatever positiveness you have about this titanic gold mine,is it absolutely guaranteed?”

    We wonder if anyone understand your question, Wylan.

    What are you trying to ask herein? Hmm …

    Reply
      Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

      My question is straight forward, Is the platform absolutely guaranteed? Is just a simple YES or NO, is that so hard to understand?
      Mr Voice above Noise, you seems to have huge interests defending the company, are you consultant? What are you associated with the company?

      Reply
      Wylan Goh says 9 years ago

      Mr.Noisy man can’t even answer my simple YES or NO yet made so much noise here. Be gone noisy man…be gone…

      Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    We began to have doubt that you are wise. Perhaps, you have been just “otherwise”

    Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    Wylan, can you please refrain from making comments that are strictly based on your own opinion that are neither correct nor accurate? That is for your own good, Wylan. TQ, Wylan.

    Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    What can be more assuring than holding on to 999 pure gold that can be sold anywhere and converted back to cash anytime?

    Cheers! 🙂

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
Magnum PI says 9 years ago

Last month there were some new consultants made noise to BNM telelink on the delay of comms, BNM got fed up with it and brush it over to SSM. Hope SSM won’t be keh poh and start investigating and raid.

Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    We don’t need SSM to keh poh. We already have Magnum PI mah.
    LOL … LOL!!!

    Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    Magnum PI, can you please refrain from making comments that are strictly based on your own opinion that are neither correct nor accurate? That is for your own good, Magnum PI. TQ, Magnum PI.

    Reply
      Magnum PI says 9 years ago

      Why are you so concerned? Does the company belongs to you?

      Reply
Kohers says 9 years ago

I think the redemption part is the most risky.
You pass them the gold and do the necessary paper work
and wait for the $ to come in. The counter-party risk is too
high. This moment default will be 100% losses.

At least Lehman mini bonds holder get back something as the agency who sold these products are regulated under MAS.

This business model is not sustainable. 24% return simply beat most hedge funds and mutual funds. I think it also beat Warren Buffet annual return.

If this is so true, we have yet see people in this in the Forbe’s List.

Reply
    Sudra says 9 years ago

    Yes you are right, if it’s so called legitimate it would have made it to Forbes, that’s one reason why BNM and MAS doesn’t want to regulate this,previously when the goldcos asked them to regulate this biz model, before they decided to regulate or endorse they would have studied the formula first, probably they don’t find it sustainable and later brushed it aside.

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Sudra, can you please refrain from making comments that are strictly based on your own opinion that are neither correct nor accurate? That is for your own good, Sudra. TQ, Sudra.

      Reply
    Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

    As now you all know that the company delays the gold delivery for several days after payment clears compare to previously, moreover with the S&P is a perfect reason to further delay the delivery. This means the company needs to roll the gold more to generate more ravanue, we see the obvious tactics of desperation in oreder to get financial remedy. Even the comms are delayed, the Beijing trip delayed,then the migration. In common sense a company won’t get into unusual gigs if they do well, only when they are struggling they will start doing funny things.

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Wow! That must be an interesting theory.

      anymore interesting theory that would soon be proven as a fool’s opinion?

      Reply
        Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

        Then why are you telling people to flee the sinking Titanic?

        Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Dear Nathan, O Nathan.

      Why stay unhappy with this so-called “sinking Titanic”?

      Go away being happy. Alternatively, be happy and walk away.

      Why stay here and be utterly unhappy about it?

      Why keep making uncalled-for remarks, uncalled-for comments and uncalled-for complaints and you yourself know being the products of fabrications?

      Be objective, be professional and be consciously-clear about it.

      And stop fabricating rumors, stop fabricating stories designed to mask the actual scenarios and stop misleading the investing public about Genneva. That itself speak volume of your character, your trustworthiness and your own credentials, if you have any of them left in you. Hmm …

      Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Nathan, can you please refrain from making comments that are strictly based on your own opinion that are neither correct nor accurate? That is for your own good, Nathan. TQ, Nathan.

      Reply
Nathan Kadair says 9 years ago

Recently MACC learned that GMSB is supporting the people in the ministry with ‘feeds’. I hope they dont end up having another drama of migration to avoid bullets coming.

Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    Nathan, O Nathan.

    Do you have yet another rumor to share with everybody herein?

    Please do ahead and make it your legacy of shame for a long, long time to come.

    Why not you make movies out of it as well?

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Dear Magnum PI,

      Do you really have anything that really value-adds besides all those unhelpful, stupid theories and fabricated rumors?

      Reply
    Magnum PI says 9 years ago

    Yes it is no secret that Tuan Haji is feeding the people in the ministry of finance, it was also mentioned by KC in the meetings, it’s not difficult for MACC to know, even no one tells them, they are MACC aren’t they?

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      First BNM, then SSM, now MACC … Hmm

      What’s next?

      Reply
Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

To SC Ong,

You’re making comments as though you know better but really, do you?

Reply
Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

The ‘final closure’ should be a pivotal point in the history and chronology of all the futile debates and unproductive arguments that have gone on all-too-far overdue by now.

What say you, Magnum PI?

What say you, Sean?

What say you, smart-alack Jeffrey Lim?

What say you, anjing consultant?

What say you, Kardashan?

What say you, George?

What say you, Nicole & Pat Lu?

And what say you, BBQ?

Reply
    Kardashan says 9 years ago

    Can u elaborate what u mean of the ‘closure’ ? Are u saying that now Genneva is screwed ,so we move out and move on?

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      what do you suggest then? hang on and clinging on to the sinking titanic?

      Reply
    BBQ says 9 years ago

    A reliable sources informed that they are in money shortage, that explains why all these migration gigs, delay this and delay that. For once mr.Noise man has a voice.

    Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    Hi Voice Above Noises, sorry for late reply.

    My 2-sen on ‘final closure’…

    So much of rumours here in this forum, including assumptions and predictions by naysayers, skeptics, Self-Appointed Prophets of Doom and Narrow-minded People Stuck in Old Economy Mindsets (i.e. old conservative ways of making money).

    Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd is a gold merchant with a difference, with a NEW business model. As we all know, no other goldsmiths share their profit as Genneva does. Genneva don’t just sell gold and stop there. They have an innovative business model, the first of it’s kind in the world (Made in Malaysia) and replicated in Singapore, Philippines, China and Hongkong. Genneva’s vision is to become Asia’s Largest and Fastest Growing One-Stop Gold Trading Corporation with a mission to provide investors with the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold.

    Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd is STILL around after all the challenges faced in the past and is growing from strength to strength. Why? because they are focused and single-minded to make the business work. Don’t you think all of us should be doing the same?

    Would whining and complaining about nitty-gritty admin details here for the whole world to read solve any problems? It’s a waste time when one can use the same amount of time to figure out how to solve the challenges positively and constructively with Genneva management.

    Food for thought for all unhappy consultants here: Are you part of the solution or are you part of the problem?

    Cheers! 🙂

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

Now that the FINAL CLOSURE is behind us, shall we move on … ?

What say you, Magnum PI?

What say you, Sean?

What say you, smart-alack Jeffrey Lim?

What say you, anjing consultant?

What say you, Kardashan?

What say you, George?

What say you, Nicole & Pat Lu?

And what say you, BBQ?

Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Item D of the Preambles of the GMSB sALES AND PURCHASE AGREEMENT reads :
Quote
“(D) The Customer shall immediately make full payment of the gold products within the customary (“urf”) period accepted by banking business practice and the Seller shall transfer the ownership of the gold products and deliver the gold products physically or constructively to the Customer”
Unquote
The definition of constructive delivery reads as follows :
“Constructive delivery refers to an act amounting to a transfer of title by operation of law when actual transfer is impossible. Constructive delivery is a general term comprehending all those acts which, although not truly conferring a real possession on the purchaser, have been held by construction of law, equivalent to acts of real delivery. However, constructive delivery is effectuated when there is no actual transfer of goods or their symbol, the conduct of the parties is such as to be inconsistent with any supposition other than that there has been a change in the nature of the holding.”
Hence, in accordance to the essence of the S & P, GMSB is deemed to have fulfilled it obligation once it hand over the Certificate of Ownership to the Purchaser.
BNM must consider whether this clause, in essence, will give rise to acts in contravention of BAFIA.
Clause 2 titled “Sales and Purchase Agreement” under sub-clause 2.1 titled “Sale” reads.
Quote
The Seller as the Owner of the gold product hereby sells to the Customer and the Customer hereby purchases from the Seller, the gold products at the Sale Price as set out inSection 3 of Schedule 1 and shall be paid in accordance with Clause 3 of this Agreement.”
Unquote
Currently the goldco is selling gold it does not own and thereby violating the Agreement and also the Tenet of the Syariah platform which is under the supervision of BNM.

Reply
    Sean says 9 years ago

    As what you described in the contract is sounded like paper gold. Similar to a short term park in or GSS. I think the company going another round of the RM67m spin.

    Reply
Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

To the anjing consultant from kuching,

PLEASE RESIGN!

Reply
    kuching consultant says 9 years ago

    Dear Voice above noises,

    i believe u r philip lim, cos u always ask ppl to resign or ask ppl stick with FD but u never think to improve the image of GENNEVA, shame on u! what? u wanna punch me now??? like how u punch the indian uncle????? hahaha……

    Reply
    BBQ says 9 years ago

    Kuching…anjing… Isn’t Genneva full of those? Lol

    Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Dear Kuching Consultant,
Pat Lu is just a newbie/rookie hoping to become a “Tai Koh” but is being used by the Seniors as the cat’s paw.
How come it takes so long to deliver the gold to the customers if what he told the Lioninvestor that GMSB buys gold to hedge. Pat Lu is so proud of the spread sheet done by his seniors but any accountant will just throw it into the waste bin as being full of B***S***.
Bar coding the gold is just sticking a bar code label to the gold and the goldco is using that as an excuse for yhe gold delivery.
The combined experience of the Directors is more than 60 years according to Pat Lu but the bulk of it is spent in a company that still owes “Park-in” customers at least RM67 million. What is 60+ years of experience compared with Benny Madoff having half that number of years just for one man.

Reply
    Uncle Gold says 9 years ago

    Seems theres a lot of debate here on the genneva platform. positive and negative clashes, its the same scene on the TGL thread, i have been reading it until the day it got raided and siezed operations. Then i figured all these sword fights on the thread in the end like a childplay.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Uncle Gold,
      It may seem like a child’s play but in reality the are people who had put in their life’s saving and who hound the consultants until one of them committed suicide.
      Customers always assume that they are safe because they are holding the gold, but what happens if the goldco goes belly up before the gold collection. With the concentration of customers as happen in the migration period and every 6 months thereafter, if something happens, it is “Sayonara”
      I think you are a happy man , having seen the light. All the best to your future.

      Reply
        joey says 9 years ago

        HI IM SORRY MY AUNT IS IN HOSPITAL NOW AS SHE JUST FELL DOWN FROM STAIRS. I ASKED HER JUST NOW SHE TOLD ME SHE WENT TO THE GOLD LABEL OFFICE IN GARDENS AND THE AGENT INTRODUCE HER TO THE BOSSES, ONE FAT CHINESE LADY, A CAUCASIAN MAN AND FILIPINO MAN. THE CHINSE LADY TOLD HER THAT THEY WILL HELP HER TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, BUT LOOK WAT HAPPEN. BY THE WAY I DIDNT WROTE THE COMMENT UP THERE, WHO IS JEFF MEDINA.
        AND SOMEONE SAID JUST NOW THAT NOW THE PPL INVOLVED HAVE SET UP A NEW COMPANYU. HOW CAN THAT BE. IF THEY DIDNT TAKE PPLS MONEY HOW CAN THEY SET UP AN EW COMPANY. HOW CAN THEY JUST WASH THEIR HANDS LIKE THAT
        TELL ME WHERES THE OFFICE,

        Reply
Jeffrey Lim says 9 years ago

Dear All,
SGV’s recent move to “force” all customers to migrate their account from SGV to GMSB is not binding on customers due to the following :
1. SGV has not seek the consent of its customers to the migration;
2. SGV has not issue any written information to its customers regarding the manner the migration is to be carried out;
3. SGV has to justify that with the migration the terms given by GMSB to the customers are no less favourable than what they are not enjoying. Example, the rebate given by SGV is fixed and backed by redemption voucher, whereas with GMSB the “Hibah” is at the discretion of GMSB.
4. SGV has to prove its link with GMSB.

Reply
Nicole says 9 years ago

Dear all,

It is interesting to read through the comments here.

There are pros and cons in everything. I’m glad to get different viewpoints from many people who left messages here.

Can anyone provide more info about the company Genneva (M) Berhad? Who are the founders/directors?

I hope this is a genuine company that is not emulating the Ponzi scheme. Sounds good but is the commission and Hisbah payout on time?

Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    Hi Nicole,

    Genneva has not become a ‘Berhad’ yet. I hope so. 😀

    Here, to answer your questions…

    1. The company, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd, has been around for more than 6 years with businesses in Singapore, Philippines, Hong Kong and China. Our Board of Directors has more than 60 years of combined experience in gold bullion trading and an extensive industry network in the gold industry. Learn more about Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd’s founders, products, etc at http://rayma.com.my/GennevaGold/GennevaMalaysia-Intro.pdf

    2. The Hibah (monthly returns) are always paid up on time.

    Also read Long Term Sustainability of Genneva’s Gold Biz at http://www.martinlee.sg/genneva-gold/comment-page-10/#comment-109488

    I’ll be at GMSB’s office till 4pm today. Lets meet if you would like to see the spreadsheet or have further questions.

    Cheers! 🙂

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Pat Lu,
      Please try to get your facts right.
      1. Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd doesn’t have a 6 years’ history. It took over Dimensi Sentosa which was registered in 2004 and which was dormant. Genneva Sdn. Bhd. which was suspended by BNM on 21/7/2009 is the company which had set up the overseas branch. Genneva Sdn. Bhd. still owes customers around RM67 million of “parked-in” funds;
      2. In the letter dated 17/2/2011, BNM itself had come out in an e-mail to refute the claim that GMSB had BNM “approval” to conduct gold trading activities;
      3. I do believe strongly that gold ownership is the way forward in view of the current instability of leading national/world currencies, but not in buying gold at heavily marked up prices and being subjected to unilateral actions of the goldco which is prejudicial to my interest, such as having to “migrate” and to re-balance before the expiry of the tenure which only goes to show that the goldco desparately needs new funds to sustain its activities.
      4. The action taken by the goldco is against all trading conventions where the goldco is unilaterally forcing its customers to change their business partner from SGV to GMSB.
      SSM should step in to protect the interest of the customers by declasing the migration “illegal” and against business convention where one party is forced to conform to the other dominant party.
      4. Since

      Reply
      George says 9 years ago

      Dear Pat,

      You remind me of myself when I was with Gold Label those days , when I was making handsome income, so protective of the company, enthusiastic and naive of the outside world other than my own company. Until May 8th 2010, all my perception changed and felt full of regret. I hope you don’t become another me.

      Reply
        Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

        Both Gold Label and Titanic were gone!

        What’s your decision now, George. We see two obvious choices for you herein:

        1. To enjoy the overhang effects and stay put with this “overhang” while keep bringing the glories as well as the ghosts of the past to the forefront to discuss & discuss & debate some more.

        2. Move on, and turn a new leaf. Offer your very best to your clients and leave the past in the past. Let live & live.

        Reply
        Pat Lu says 9 years ago

        Hi George,

        I’m sorry to read about your misadventure and thanks for your kind wishes. I hope you are doing alright now.

        My clients and I are very happy with Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd. We feel secure as we’re holding on to 999 pure gold that can be sold and converted back to cash anytime.

        Best wishes,

        Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
        Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

        Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Nicole,
    Since you are following this forum, I think you may want to think carefully before putting your money in.
    To answer your questions :
    1. The majority shareholding partner is Datuk Ahamd Khairuddin who is doing business mainly in the middle east arena. Thant is the reason the registered office is at Yuan Hj’s office in Maju Junction.
    The other are Tan Liang Keat and his brother
    2. Commission was never paid in time except for CNY and Raya time.
    3. Hibah is paid in time (so far)
    4. Gold delivery is always late and agents/customers are made to wait like beggers in a small office space where there is no queue system and the more pushy gets served first
    5. There is no standard operating system and if there is one nobody knows what it is as the management change them 7/24.
    6. There is an on-going trial involving 3 ex directors who are contributing to the bulk of the 60 years experience in gold trading mentioned by Pat Lu.

    Reply
      Pat Lu says 9 years ago

      None of your claims are true. Commissions were never delayed nor the gold delivered late as claimed since I bought Genneva Gold late Jan 2011 till now. In addition, there is a proper SOP in place.

      I’d advice everyone to go see for yourself.

      Cheers! 🙂

      Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
      Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

      Reply
Kardashan says 9 years ago

My client said he’s been shortchanged, he still have 6 more months before he needs top up and refused to migrate. The company dishonoured the vouchers and he went up to BNM to complained.

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Kardashan,
    BNM already washed their hands by saying that gold trading is not regulated and comes under the purview of the Company Commission of Malaysia (CCM) or Suruhanjaya Syarikat Malaysia (SSM). For vouchers of RM20,000 and below, your client can go to the Consumer Tribunal. For higher amounts, they have to go to court. The goldco really needs the re-balancing to have the funds to survive. As PL said we will defend this platform to protect our 6D commission. Customers can complain but they will be back.

    Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    Hi Kardashan,

    Are you a consultant with Genneva Malaysia? Maybe you are referring to another company.

    GMSB contract is only for 6 months as seen in Genneva Savings Plan on my website…. so how can your client “still have 6 more months”?

    Cheers!

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      You do not seem to know your products. SGV had overhang of their 12 months program. Therein lies the problem. When SGV wanted to keep customers locked up, they give the 12 months program. Please check with your masters.

      Reply
    Kardashan says 9 years ago

    Yes, Lee Mei May is right, it is a 1 year program, last sold 6 months ago but discontinued. Pat must be new consultant, no wonder she haven’t seen the true colour of the company, give her time later she will realize.

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      What’s next when you “see” the true colors then?

      Go and find your happiness somewhere else …

      Instead of being so stressed up, so worked up, why not turn a new leaf?

      Go to other goldco. And make your money, be happy.

      You seems to be trying to tell the whole world you knows better and yet so much more unhappy. What’s the point?

      Why hang on like a ghost from the past?

      Live let live. Move on, Kardashan.

      There’s absolutely only dis-appointments, despairs, emptiness and anger, bitterness with your “overhang”.

      The issue is so clearly your problem, not the 12-months overhang but your very own “overhang”

      Let the whole cyber community judge you morons as who who morons really are.

      Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Kardashan,
      You are humble and truly professional in your approach not like those arrogent bounty hunters who just swallow what is dish out to them.
      * Telling the world that GMSB has 6 years experience when all it had done is take over a dormant Dimensi Sentosa which was registered in 2004. If being dormant is 6 years experience in dormancy, then let it be;
      * Telling the world that GMSB’s gold trading is approved by BNM when there is a letter from BNM specifically pointing out in no uncertain terms that no such approval had been given (BNM e-mail dated 17/2/2011). If you need a copy please let me have your e-mail and it will be sent to you.
      * Ordering its customers to migrate when they have no such authority.
      Tell your customers that the way forward in protecting their saving is to buy gold at a low entry point of Spot + 5% (not spot +25% as being transacted at the goldco) and then enjoy the appreciation. No hassle, no sleepless nights, and most important no deception and twist and turns.

      Reply
        BBQ says 9 years ago

        6 years company? Anyone of you consultants mentioned that is actually linking the new company with the old shit the previous Genneva Sdn Bhd has crapped up. Be careful with your words when you speak out there. It may back fire for all you know.

        Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Kardashan or perhaps Kadazan, can you please refrain from drawing conclusions and giving loose advice that are strictly based on your own opinion which are neither correct nor accurate? That is for your own good, Kardashan or perhaps Kadazan. TQ, Kardashan or perhaps Kadazan.

      Reply
George says 9 years ago

For those of you who are unhappy with SGV or GMSB, there’s a new company Precious Metal Sdn Bhd, a rebranding of Au Niaga, they are in the same office as Au Niaga.

Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    CaesarGold is more attractive, just located on the 3rd-mile square of Old Klang Road, available on the web.

    Reply
      George says 9 years ago

      Precious Metal s/b now giving 3% per month, when was then last time you checked? Consultants done above 5kilos personal sales will be counted as 1% comm.

      Reply
      Sean says 9 years ago

      Ceasar Gold is not attractive compared to Precious Metals S/B, I would personally prefers Precious Metals. Anyway Caesar are said to be reducing their rebates and comms soon.

      Reply
Pat Lu says 9 years ago

Re: George said at May 5, 2011 at 12:49 pm

> For those of you who are unhappy with SGV or GMSB, you can consider new company of Au Niaga rebranded, they are now called Precious Metal Sdn Bhd , they are backed by MKS. Took over by another owner

Hi George,

Interesting. Can’t find their website. What’s their URL? Does PMSB offer similar high monthly returns as Genneva Gold Savings Plan as seen at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/about/

Perhaps Lee Mei May could dissect PMSB, so we don’t have to do the homework, then we invest, maybe… 😀

Cheers!

Reply
Pat Lu says 9 years ago

Hi Martin Lee aka Lion Investor,

Indeed, good questions everyone should ask before investing in any company. 🙂 Genneva’s wealth sharing platform based on Syariah Concept is too good to be true until one has taken lots of time to do in-depth research and do the maths to realize Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd (GMSB) has a sustainable business model. 🙂

For starters, let me share an email (from my supportive Senior Consultant at GMSB) with you and your readers here…

———- Forwarded message ———-
Date: Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 8:03 PM
Subject: Long Term Sustainability of Genneva’s Gold Biz

Please see attached spreadsheet which provides you in-depth analysis of the business model of Genneva Syariah Gold compliant product.

Do note that although mathematically, it would seem that Genneva is giving its investors 24% per annum, but we need to understand that there are few factors to remember.

1. Genneva pays us 2% every month over 6 months tenure, but use our cash up-front for their business. Its cash flow, and they will hedge our cash with gold inventory, which they can sell on the next month (hopefully at higher price, which makes them even more profits; clearly shown in the spreadsheet).

2. Tenure is for 6 months only, and investors need to do re-balancing, which makes the company another round of profits.

3. A certain percentage of investors will surrender their gold & redeem for their original invested amounts. This gold (inventory) will be sold once again to new investors for another round of profit. Company makes even more profit when gold price goes up.

The attach spreadsheet even shows that the company continues to make positive cash flow even when the price of Gold drops. The scenario in the spreadsheet assumes price of gold drops by 16% from 173 to 145 over several months.

Do note that most analyst and experts including those from reputable banks like Public, CIMB and Maybank estimates that Gold price will rise by 20%-25% this year. And we know that gold was up by 25% last year (2010). So, we have to ask ourselves if Gold will drop by 16%…

Lastly, do remember that all the time, the precious 999 pure gold bar is in our hands & possession. And we can always sell it in the open market. Even if Genneva is not around. So our investment is always protected. Its just that we’ll stop receiving the wonderful 2% per month! 🙂

Let me know if you have any other questions. I’ll answer wherever I can. Alternatively, we can also meet representatives of the company in KL.

Contents © Copyright: My Gold Goose Group.

———- End of forwarded message ———-

Serious investors and consultant-wannabes are most welcomed to view the spreadsheet by making an appointment to meet us at Genneva’s office or at a nearby cafe on any working day within office hours.

Cheers!

Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Mr. Pat Lu,

    Your mail to Lioninvestor refers.

    1. Hedge cash with gold inventory
    Article 2.2 Terms of Payment
    The payment of the sale price of the gold products is of the sum set out in Section 3 of Schedule 1 shall be made immediately according to “urf”upon the execution of the Agreement wherein the Customer shall take immediate custody of the gold product.
    This is in reference to your e-mail where your Senior Consultant (or is it CON SULTAN?) mentioned “hedge our cash with gold inventory” (Item !)
    FACT
    There is no inventory. The goldco orders the gold after receiving the payment from the customer and delivery of the gold (gold product) is only made more than 2 days after the receipt of payment by the company.
    At 1.5% Hibah, the goldco is using the 25% mark up to pay the customer for 16.7 months of “hibah”

    2. Tenure
    6 months tenure and any increase in gold price will be paid by the customer to the company at the end of the tenure in the re-balancing exercise.

    3. Non renewal of contract
    The company requires customers to write in one week from the date of the end of the tenure if they do not want to renew the contract and surrender the gold to the company 2 days before the re-purchase by the company. When customer buys gold, the gold delivery is at least 2 days from FULL PAYMENT made, when the company re-purchase the gold customer has to wait for 2 days to get the payment after surrendering the gold.

    Let us look at the practice of the goldco
    In the Sales & Purchase Agreement, the Preamble reads :
    WHEREAS
    A. The Seller is approved by Bank Negara Malaysia under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institutions Act (no date of Act mentioned) to conduct factoring and leasing business in line with the Shariah Principles
    B. The Seller is engaged in sales and purchase of gold products defined in Schedule 2 to intererested customers in accordance with Shariah principle of sale and buy
    What the Sales and Purchase Agreement is saying is that the goldco whilst being a Schedule Business is carrying out its business not in the “approved” category and is therefore not regulated by Bank Negara Malaysia (BNM). Furthermore, BNM had categorically mentioned that there is no approval but only an “acknowledgement” of receipt of the submissions made by GMSB.
    The customers of the goldco is being told that is case anything happens to the goldco, they always have the gold to hold on to and therefore it is vital to evaluate how safe is this scheme.
    1. Collection and return of gold at beginning and end of tenure
    It takes more than 2 days after full payment to collect the gold and at the end of the tenure, the customer surrenders the gold to the goldco at least 2 days before getting back the money. As “Old Uncle” had contributed to this forum, even a one day lapse will violate the financial safety of the customer’s.
    Moreover, under the Syariah platform, The Goldco is NOT allow to sell a “bird in the air” or the gold which the goldco does not already own. This Tenet is continuously violeted rendering a retail sale to become an “indent” sale which is only applicable to capital items and not retail sales.
    2. The Goldco is now desparate in terms of their financial and need the speeding up of the migration and the re-balancing to secure (for a short period) their financial. Customers are being told that they cannot redeem any more redemption voucher unless they are able to explain why they have not migrated from SGV to GMSB. GMSB had given 60 days to complete the migration, but now in their desparation they want it completed before even 2 week is up. The customers holding the Redemption Voucher can go to the Consumer Tribunal or if the sum is big can go to court to redeem their vouchers at the appointed dates.
    3. Other indicators of financial instability
    * Late commission payments
    * Lucky draw from Genneva S.B. days still ourstanding after 2 years
    * China trip
    *The extension of the gold collection period in order to use customers’ gold to roll instead of having to buy any gold. Not only no inventory but some more want to use customer’s gold to roll. The excuse given at the meeting with consultants is that the stock of gold in this country is depleted. I can say for sure that, the statement is not true.
    The coming storm will be bigger than all previous storms put together : Tig Net, TGL, GPU, etc
    With the coming storm as the said Quo Vadis.

    Reply
      Pat Lu says 9 years ago

      Hi Lee Mei May,

      1. I see no contradiction between what my Senior Consultant wrote and what’s in the actual S&P Agreement.

      2. Very happy to migrate from SGV to Genneva Malaysia so I don’t have to rebalance and juggle my cashflow every month.

      3. Due to the large volume of transactions every day, consolidating to improve the SOP (Standard Operation Procedures) takes time. This is neither an indication of ‘financial instability’ nor a ‘sign of desperation’ as you claim.

      4. I quote Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd …has fulfilled all Bank Negara’s requirements as a scheduled Institution under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institution Act, 1989 (BAFIA); and classified under First Schedule of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act, 2001(AMLA) as a “Reporting Institution”. More details, click on the above link.

      Seriously, Mei May, you think GMSB would claim that if it’s not true? Bank Negara Malaysia would be at their backs by now.

      Both of us are looking at the same glass of water. Funny, you are looking at it as empty; while I see it full and overflowing with blessings. 😀

      Cheers!

      Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
      Gold Consultant
      Very happy to work with Genneva Malaysia — literally My Gold Goose.
      Hence, the URL: http://mygoldgosse.wordpress.com 😀

      Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Pat Lu,
    Your Senior Con Sultan is trying to con you into thinking that at ALL TIMES you are holding the gold and it is in your possession and like a good follower you had repeated after him (sorry, you did not repeat after him/her, you quoted him/her wholesale, hook, line + sinker). I think you may be interested to know that Tig Net disappeared with the customers’ gold when it went in for “inspection”. Well with this goldco, there are more than 2 days at the beginning and at the end where your risks are higher than with the goldco folding up. Please explain this risk to your customers. Please tell your customers that the goldco is not contracting as a Schedule Business but only as a goldco in an un-regulated business.

    Reply
      Pat Lu says 9 years ago

      No worries Mei May,

      It’s not an illusion and I don’t do drugs.

      Before I continue, thanks but my Senior is not from any royal family… in his next life maybe. 😀

      ALL the physical gold I bought from Genneva are in my hands; including the gold after migrating from SGV to GMSB last week. In fact, I intend to buy more as no other investment instrument gives me that kind of returns. 🙂

      My clients and I are fully aware, in the event the company disappears (touch wood); we still have in our hands999 pure gold that can be sold and converted back to cash anytime.

      None of us are speculators. In a nutshell, all the reasons why we save in Gold, visit http://www.rayma.com.my/gennevagold/WhyInvestInGold.pdf

      Moreover, the precious metal is appreciating between 20-30% per annum so no loss in the long run. We’ll miss the high monthly returns though. 😉 LOL!

      On ‘un-regulated’ business, I would say ‘un-conventional’… where Narrow-minded People Stuck in Old Economy Mindsets (i.e. old conservative ways of making money) just don’t get it, hence the rumours, assumptions or predictions by naysayers, skeptics and Self-Appointed Prophets of Doom.

      Nonetheless, thank you very much for your concern and advice.

      Cheers!

      Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
      Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

      Reply
kuching consultant says 9 years ago

Genneva stop accept our redemption voucher to stop paying the interest & force all the smaudra GV customer return the gold & top up the price. we will accept top up for the different but why should we return the gold ? i believe protest against will be held in front of HSBC building very soon if the Genneva cant give us an acceptable reason. By the way, we are still waiting for our comsision that suppose to show on 20/4/2011!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply
    George says 9 years ago

    Isn’t that an obvious sign of financial turmoil?

    Reply
      kuching consultant says 9 years ago

      we hope not……

      Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      More than that meet the eyes, George.

      For those who like to always reads too much in-between the lines, these are signs of the last days.

      Read the Bible book of Revelation.

      Hmm …

      Reply
        Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

        “I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich” Revelation 3 ver 18

        Reply
          Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

          The Revelation chapter 3 verse 18 was taken from the Bible NIV version.

          Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    Hi Kuching Consultant,

    Are you really a Genneva Consultant? And, have you have been attending Consultants Meetings regularly?

    Surprised you’d don’t know the reasons why. It was made very clear why we need to migrate and the steps to follow to ensure a smooth migration.

    Cheers!

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
      kuching consultant says 9 years ago

      Dear Pat Lu,
      yes, i am a consultant. I understand why company want to migrate. The problem is the company oledy facing backlog problem, why they want us to return the gold at the same time? why they cant gv us an exact answer when can we bring back our gold? The migration is involve with existing customer why they cant calling the customer when everything is ready? can they exchange the gold on the spot after customer top up? company need time to prepare the cheque? agreement? find, we dont mind to wait for 7 or 14days if the gold is with us!

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear Kuching consultant,
        Your PTA had been assigned the task of system integration but to date nobody knows what this is and where we are.
        The business between two parties has to have the consent of both parties for any change in the terms. In the case of the migration from SGV to GMSB have the goldco obtained the approval of the customer for the change. For any normal business, if one party wants to transfer the business to another party, it has to issue a circular explaining the move and seeking the approval of the buyer, in this case. It has not been done and the buyer has every right not to migrate. Those who are not satisfied can complain to :
        1. SSM
        2. Consumer associations
        3. BNM (since GMSB) is a Reporting Institution even though gold trading is non-regulated.

        Reply
          Pat Lu says 9 years ago

          Hi Lee Mei May,
          It baffles me. Are you really a Genneva Consultant?

          If you no longer believe or trust in the company, then quit instead of stressing out over procedures that need to be done properly. Lets prospect for more clients instead of sweating over the non-productive small stuff and jamming cyberspace with paranoia. 😐

          Most importantly, lets work as a TEAM. Lets work WITH the company and not against it. Be it side income, putting food on the table, financing children’s education, whatever the reason you chose to be a consultant… don’t kill the Golden Goose that lays the golden eggshttp://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/the-golden-goose/ — enjoy the video. 🙂

          Cheers and have a blessed weekend,

          Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
          Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

          Reply
          kuching consultant says 9 years ago

          Dear Lee Mei May,
          There is no two parties, everything must follow what they said. If we not agreed for the migration we r asking to withdraw and get penalty 20% from the purchase price, WTF!
          i also dont know how Genneva compliance with syariah, they are always selling the goods that they dont have! i wait up to 20days to receive the gold for my last purchase !!!

          Reply
        Pat Lu says 9 years ago

        Hi Kuching Consultant,

        Thank you for confirming that you are a Genneva Consultant. 🙂

        From what I understand from your post, the root of the problem is fear. Fear you or your clients won’t get your gold back based on other companies who scammed their clients in the past, correct? [gentle smile]

        Nonetheless, I fully understand your frustration. Lets have a little faith in our company GMSB. And lets be little patient, can or not?

        As mentioned, having attended weekly meetings and having gone through the entire migration process myself; I can assure you they are doing their best. Human beings, not robots lah.

        You don’t have problems with new purchases, do you? The entire migration process takes time. Put yourself in their shoes, then you can understand better…

        1. The recall for our gold is for bar-coding purposes, moving from SGV to Genneva so I can imagine the amount of paperwork that needs to be done – the step-by-step processes we don’t see such as closing your account with SGV; then moving to GMSB officially as a new account, that’s why the contract is for 6 months, not a continuation from previous contract. That takes time.

        2. If you’ve gone through it, you can see there’s a bar-code sticker at the back of each of your Genneva Gold Bullion 🙂

        3. Then S&P Agreements need to be prepared, signed and sealed by both parties under GMSB. That takes time.

        4. Only then can your gold be returned to you under GMSB together with Letter of Hibah, Certificate of Ownership and your Hibah cheque. That takes time too.

        As a Consultant, we should take time to explain the above clearly and objectively to our clients. It’s all about processes and processes takes time.

        None of my clients made a ruckus over the migration. In fact, they are happy they don’t have to re-balance monthly anymore coupled with a new contract for 6 months.

        If you no longer believe or trust in the company, then quit instead of stressing out over procedures that need to be done properly. Lets prospect for more clients instead of sweating over the non-productive small stuff. 🙂

        Most importantly, lets work as a TEAM. Lets work WITH the company and not against it. Be it side income, putting food on the table, financing children’s education, whatever the reason you chose to be a consultant… don’t kill the Golden Goose that lays the golden eggshttp://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/the-golden-goose/ — enjoy the video. 🙂

        Cheers and have a blessed weekend,

        Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
        Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

        Reply
          kuching consultant says 9 years ago

          Dear Pat Lu,
          I agree its all because of fear, why company cant using the safe way for all process? i did mention my last purchase take 20days to wait for my gold, do u think this is not a problem for me? how are we going to explain to the buyer if the gold deliver after 1 week? we are introduce this investment through syariah compliance but the company selling the good that dont have, what a joke? we all know the process take time, so the company must get ready itself before the recall, am i right?

          Reply
          joey says 9 years ago

          SORRY MY AUNT IS IN THE HOSPITAL NOW. SHE TOLD ME THAT SHE WENT TO THE OFFICE IN GARDEN MIDVALEY , SHE MET THIS FAT LADY THERE I THINK SHE SAID IS THE BOSS AND ONE CAUCASIAN MAN AND A FILIPINO MAN. THE FAT CHINESE LADY SAID THAT THE GOLD WAS SAFE, AND SHE IS SECURE 100 PERCENT OF HER INVESTMENT. PLS PRAY FOR MY AUNT AS SHE HAD FELL DOWN FROM THE STAIRS JUST NOW.
          HOW CAN THE DIRECTOR SET A NEW COMPANY NOW, AND MAKE PPL LIKE MY AUNT LOST MONEY ??
          BTW THE ABOVE COMMENT WASW NOT WRITTEN BY ME. WHO IS JEFF MEDINA

          Reply
      Magnum PI says 9 years ago

      Please be mindful with whatever you claim on behalf of the company,please do your homework before younsay anything especially when it could be read by the public.

      Few facts you must know before you say anything.

      1. Dimensi Sentosa is a scheduled institution and it is not licensed nor approved for the gold trade, in the first place BNM scheduled institution do not cover anything to do with gold and it’s trade.
      However if any of you able to trace the background of Dimensi Sentosa,it was previously a company dealing with investment product that went bust and seized operations by BNM itself, then later the “lesen gantung” was then revived and changed hands to Genneva.

      2. Please be mindful that BNM will never get involved with the gold trade from now onwards as they do not see this as worthy of their time and prefers to carry on with other more major matters, they have described it very clearly on the email reply from Telelink unless such companies violate AMLA and BAFIA.

      3. I have checked with a lawyer from Jabatan Peguam Negara, if a goldco do not deliver the product in within 3 days after clearing of payments, it is legally considered as Deposit Taking, so 20 days delay would be more than qualify. Please remember what you have learned during the Syariah orientation at maju Junction, anyone recalls the Syariah advisor said, Syariah compliant means immediate delivery of goods, no hold back whatsoever.

      New consultants please understand your trade rules and facts before making comments against the “old birds” in this trade.

      3.

      Reply
        Serene Sia says 9 years ago

        Absolutely right, I just called up a lawyer who is handling a goldco’s case, in legal of BAFIA , more than 3 days no delivery of product is justify as deposit taking. That’s violation of BAFIA outright. BNM investigation unit is more than qualify to step in now if they want to.

        Reply
        BBQ says 9 years ago

        FYI , BNM has been receiving hundreds of complaints from customers over the dispute of ‘forced migrations’ and quite a sum of it were complaints of no gold yet to received after more than a week payments transacted. So better keep your fingers crossed that they don’t act on it as you know it’s BAFIA they can grill them with.

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          On matters relating to late delivery of the gold the compliant should be to BNM as the Syariah platform does not allow for sale of any item without that item being already owned by seller
          On matters relating to the forced migration, the complaint should be to the Companies Commission of Malaysia (CCM) or Suruhanjaya Syarikat Malaysia (SSM) and of course to the newspapers and through the alternative media. Call Citizen Nades to do a expose in the Sun.

          Reply
          George says 9 years ago

          I don’t think it’s all of the migration customers were delayed of their gold, only some handful, but if the complaints are substantial then BNM or SSM might look into it.

          Reply
          Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

          “BNM has received hundreds of complaints”

          Wow! Just how “reliable is your source of information?

          Can share the verifiable statistics?

          Reply
CKLim says 9 years ago

GMSB pay the investor 1.5 interest per month.It end up to be 18% interest per month.But how it get the money to pay the investor every month?Has anybody ask this question before.

Do you think the Company will shares the profit with the investor.If yes,how did he do it.How he can guarantee they always have the money to pay for his investor.

People should ask these question before they invest in GMSB…

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    GMSB has a wonder business model based on
    1. Customers keeping the gold and when the price increases the customer has to top up to get back the same amount of gold at the end of the tenure. This is called balancing;
    2. New customers coming in and giving the 25% profit to the goldco.
    So, to keep the business going, there has to be new customers or existing customers buying more gold and the price of gold in the market has to keep going up.
    Happy gold trading.

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Trivial Questions Deserve Trivial Answers

      Take 1:

      TFC or Timbuktu Fried Chicken has a wonderful business model based on

      1. Customers keep preferring chicken and when the price increases the customer has to top up to get back the same amount of chicken at the end of the day. This is called finger-licking good.

      2. New customers coming in and giving the xx% profit to the chick-co.

      So, to keep the business going, there has to be new customers or existing customers buying more chicken and hopefully, the price of chicken in the market stay more or less the same.

      Happy licking your fingers.

      Take 2:

      d’Burger has a wonderful business model based on

      1. Customers keep preferring burger and when the price increases the customer has to top up to get back the same set of value-meals at the end of the day. This is called “hmm ….”

      2. New customers coming in and giving the xx% profit to the burger-co.

      So, to keep the business going, there has to be new customers or existing customers buying more burgers and the price of wheat in the market stays more or less the same.

      Happy meals for everyone!

      Reply
        Pat Lu says 9 years ago

        Hi Voice Above Noises,

        I like your analogy. 😀 :))

        ROFLOL!

        Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
        Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

        Reply
      Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

      Hi Mei May,

      I should say GMSB’s business model is innovative. You will not understand unless you know the gold industry well.

      Most Singapore goldsmith shops also sell golds valued at 20% to 30% above spot price and if include design and workmanship, the markup will be 40%. If you buy re-con gold from the pawn shops, you can get it cheaper, about 15% (no design or workmanship incurred).

      Cheers!

      Dennis Lim
      Gold Trader
      Founder of Singapore Lion Head Gold Bar

      “In future, the real name for money is GOLD and with physical gold, you will not go bankrupt”

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear Dennis,
        Sorry to have difference of opinion but remember what you are doing with the TGL gold WILL NOT, I repeat, WILL NOT be repeated with Genneva Pte Ltd or GMSB because the volume is so big and there is not that many buyers. So desparate holders of gold will make fire sales and when that happen, good luck to all of you. But like all traders, gold traders will stand to gain, but always remember, if such an event were to come to pass, the public confidence will be dented not because of the gold but because of the conduct of the goldco. Anyway gold is the commodity to own and if you are intending to open shop in Malaysia, please do let me know.
        To consider,
        Lucky draw from Genneva S.B. days still to take place;
        China trip yet to be announced when originally it was for March 2011;
        Late payment of consultant commission;
        Sudden migration “on advice of lawyers” (What had they done wrong?). All the re-balancing is needed to pump money into the system;
        Let us see whether the chameleon can match or better the Madoff record.

        Reply
          Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

          Hi Mei May,

          Thank you for inviting me to Malaysia to open shop. I only sell my singapore Lion Head Gold Bar through appointed internet reseller. This will help to save cost and hence pass the saving to customers who are interested to invest in physical gold. So far http://www.goldprice.com.sg website had been doing quite well in promoting Singapore made gold bars/coins. How is the gold retail market in Malaysia now? Last year I bought 1 oz pamp suisse Fortuna gold coin and 2pcs of 10 g gold bar with the picture of the Twin Tower from a goldsmith shop called Tomei. I bought at the gold value of RM166 per gram without making charges.

          I did make some money by acquiring gold bars from TGL customers but I told them to keep not to sell. Unfortunately they didn’t believe that gold price will go up or else they could save another S$5000 per kilo bar and it is just a matter of 2 months!

          If you got “lobang”, I had one agent in India looking for 200 MT of gold bars 999.9 purity. It must be lower than spot price. He told me that every jewellery shop in India will buy 1 MT for their own consumption. So 200 MT not a problem for him as there are more than 200 jewellery shops in Southern India. If you have such contact, let me know.

          Cheers!

          Dennis Lim
          Gold Trader
          Founder of Singapore Lion Head Gold Bar

          “In future, the real name for currency is GOLD and with physical gold, you will not go bankrupt”

          Reply
        Serene Sia says 9 years ago

        It seems the signs are more or less seems like they are in some financial constrains. Cant really confirms it but it is somehow very perculier. From the delays of comms to the delay of gold delivery to delay of the beijing trip to now the suddent migrations. They may not want us to know but their actions gave it away.

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          As PL said the Company is bigger than the sum of all consultants and customers added together and the company must be protected by whatever means. Other companies had been formed and waiting in the wing. Money had been dispersed. It is the customers who are now at risks, the Uncles and Aunties. Be very careful and beware. It is your hard earned money that is being used to support the “iron rice bowls” of the millionaires.

          Reply
          Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

          Serene, can you please refrain from drawing conclusions and giving loose advice that are strictly based on your own opinion which are neither correct nor accurate? That is for your own good, Serene. TQ, Serene.

          Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    CKLim proposed that “People should ask these questions before they invest in GMSB”

    There are many wonders in the world that we don’t really fully understand before we undertake them.

    We would also propose that “People should really ask these questions before they undertake anything at all”

    For e.g., how does the pistons in our car engines functions that drive us from one point to another? People should ask these question before they even consider driving a car.

    And how do both electricity & electronics give us so much of luxuries in today’s life. Henceforth, we propose that people should really ask these questions before they even begin to enjoy all these luxuries.

    Lastly, many today still do not really understand how the banking industry works. We again propose that people should ask these questions before they ever deal with any banks.

    What do you think, CKLim? Do you realized now how naive your question was?

    Reply
      kuching consultant says 9 years ago

      Dear Voice above noises.

      i ask everything before i join GMSB, but the problem is the company keep changing the rules! they just do everything they want to! tell u what, if they insist all samudra GV customer must return the gold for migrate to GENNEVA Malaysia, i’d rather keep the gold for myself & go to bank negara to submit my complaint about syariah compliance! because Genneva Malaysia always selling the gold that they dont have! customer at kuching have to wait more than two weeks after bank in to Genneva’s account! this

      Reply
      kuching consultant says 9 years ago

      btw, all the samudra gv customer been called for return the gold & top up at the same time, but the company cant promise when can gv back the gold to the owner…probably 4days to 2 weeks or N days! the reason they gave is we need more time to process the migration, but then why the company ask all samudra gv customer must return at the same time? the migration is only involve with so call agreement & top up the money, why shld we return the gold?

      Reply
        Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

        Let it be willing buyer, willing seller.

        Otherwise, just agree to disagree, agreeably – Dr. Stephen R. Covey.

        End of story.

        Reply
Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

Dear physical gold investors,

How to invest gold in the cheapest way, logon to http://www.goldprice.com.sg to findout.

How to use your credit cards to buy physical gold online and enjoy cash flow, email me at [email protected] and I will share with you the secret.

Need 2 kg gold bar 999.9 fine gold, any brand. SMS me @ +6598529496 if you are interested to sell, will pay slightly higher than bank price.

Hi all Singaporeans, support the first Singapore-made 100g Lion Head gold bar 999.9 fine gold instead of Swiss-made gold bar. Buy online (www.goldprice.com.sg) at the comfort of your home and enjoy free delivery within Singapore.

I believe gold price will hit 1700 per troy ounce end of this year.

Cheers!

Dennis Lim
Gold Trader.
“With physical gold, you will not go bankrupt”

Reply
iwan says 9 years ago

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Reply
iwan says 9 years ago

saya meminati dalam bidang use gold. Pengalaman 10 tahun dalam kerja.mahir dalam bidang use gold (Professional) 0192481156

Reply
Pat Lu says 9 years ago

No matter what people say or write with a lot of apprehension and caution, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd is still operating and in fact, growing from strength to strength.

How I see Genneva Gold Investment… In a nutshell, it is actually a saving plan similar to placing your savings in Fixed Deposit. Whether the price of gold goes up or down, your capital is protected 100% with 1.5% return every month (for a tenure of 6 months); compared to FD which gives you only 2.85% PER YEAR.

More about Genneva Gold Savings Plan, read: http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/about/

Cheers!

Pat Lu
Hopefully retired. 🙂

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Pat Lu,

    It is not entirely correct to say that buying from the goldco is like keeping money in a bank FD account.
    1. There is a 25% mark-up on the gold;
    2. There is a lapse on time of more than 2 days between paying for the gold and taking possession of the gold;
    3. In gold the customer is dealing with an un-regulated business;
    4. The Hibah is at the discretion of the goldco, if they do not pay hibah to their customer, it is their right;
    5. If they do not buy back at the original purchase price, it is also their right;
    6. In goldcos, changes is the constant and changes are invariably at the disadvantage of the customers;
    7. Most important, goldcos may not be operating a sustainable business.

    Reply
    Sean says 9 years ago

    Hi Pat,

    The capital is not 100% guarantee, I have a very rich client who is upset with the premature migration and deliberately not wanting to migrate and sold off to a gold dealer. He won’t mind the loses and he just do it for the heck of it. He bought 6 months ago at 171 and he sold off last week at 143. So it’s not 100% capital guarantee unless the company still in operations and buys back from you at the purchased price. As what Lee May Mei mentioned, the company MAY NOT buy back if they choose to.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      It is only capatal guarantteed if the goldco is still around and is not suspended (as in Genneva Sdn. Bhd.) and if you are trading within the 7 calendar days window given. Otherwise, it is at their discretion to buy and if they do buy, GMSB will discount it by 20% from your purchase price. Good luck gold trading

      Reply
      Pat Lu says 9 years ago

      Hi Sean,

      Frankly, in some cases, customers are not always right. No offence meant… From what I understood from your posting, your client just wanted his way and his ego got in the way, hence chose to sell his pot of gold at a “loss” — which is not Genneva Malaysia’s doing. In addition, the gold dealer who bought it from your client must be laughing his way to the bank today. 🙂

      If your client had been patient, followed the company’s policies and procedures, he would still be enjoying his monthly Hibah and get his capital back 100% at the end of the 6 months tenure.

      As to May Mei’s comment, “MAY NOT buy back if their choose to” — I’ve not heard of any case where the company refused to buy back their own gold at the terms and conditions specified in the contract, signed and sealed by both parties.

      Cheers!

      Pat Lu
      Genneva Gold Consultant

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        The migration from SGV to GMSB was started about 2 weeks ago and customers are given 60 days in which to complete the migration. What happen next is that now customers are being told that their Redemption vouchers cannot be cashed unless they had not migrated due to extenuating circomstances and must write in for “management approval”.
        The goldco must be getting desparate now, since without the migration and the re-balancing, they may be running short of funds to even pay the redemption vouchers issued by artisan ratus. Customers Beware. Consultants beware. Addiction comes with a price. Honour is the human race most prized asset.

        Reply
          George says 9 years ago

          For those of you who are unhappy with SGV or GMSB, you can consider new company of Au Niaga rebranded, they are now called Precious Metal Sdn Bhd , they are backed by MKS. Took over by another owner

          Reply
          Pat Lu says 9 years ago

          For everyone’s info, my clients’ migration from SGV to GMSB went without a hitch. They received a good deal and are very happy with it.

          1. Though they had 3 months left (under SGV), they received a new 6 months contract under GMSB.

          2. The balance of their previous rate is paid via redemption vouchers. That too a breeze – collecting the vouchers, submitting for payment and receiving the cheques.

          All done professionally.

          Cheers!

          Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
          Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

          Reply
    Wise investor says 9 years ago

    Dear Pat

    You can consider as a savings plan. provided the company can meet the redemption at the end of the 6 months period. If not what you invest, you can only get back PURCHASE PRICE – 25% discout for selling in open market. And how much are you expected to make from 6 months monthly Hibah? Total 9% only.

    You judge for yourself. Unless of course, you are a Consultant, making 3% for 6 months period from the sales you made and thereafter. In the end, the big risk is born by the investor with the Goldco and Consultant laughing all the way to the bank.

    Reply
lovesilver says 9 years ago

the gold is from UOB bank….
if the gold goes up the whole scheme will work becos this is how it works for eg:

1. gold sold to u at $12 (mkt price = $10)
2. end of the month buy back from u at $12 + interest

for the first month if 5 person pay S60 for 5 gold, the coy will get 1 gold bar free becos $60/10=6 bars, 5 bars give to customer, coy keep 1 free bar.

at end of month gold price goes up, they pay u $12+interest. However since the gold price alrdy gone up the 1 free bar dont worth only $10….so the new price let say$13, will be enough to pay $10 to all 5 customers+interest, n the coy earn for sure some money….this is how it works…..works when gold goes up.

when gold go horizontal or dip suddenly for some reasons, with the amount of investors involve in this game….guess what the coy will do………cheers

Reply
WhatisGold says 9 years ago

I have a way to purchase Gold online safe and smoothly. as we all know that trade in gold is very risky but these type of tips you give everybody is very ownerable.

Reply
Billy Chiam says 9 years ago

Hi,

Why do people think Gold is bullish this year in 2011?

Gold is a hedge against crisis. Despite of recent japan earthquake, Gold indeed still proven to be strong and break the recent high from around $1435/oz to the new record high of $1475/oz now.

Last year, gold appreciated around 30% in value.

In 4 month current gold projection, it appreciated around 5% in average till date. When the demand still hold for now, average appreciation of gold would be at least 20% till end of this year in 2011.

In my opinion, gold is highly possible to hit close to around $1700 to $2000/oz by end of this year.

I will still hold physical gold for now.

Regards,
Billy Chiam
Gold Trader Asia Pte. Ltd.

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Billy,
    You may be right or your projection may be a little conservative. GMSB makes the 25% profit margin in their sale of gold to the customers and the customers holding the gold is helping them to profit from the gold they are holding and still have to bear the arrogence of the goldcos. On top of that, there is the uncertainty of losing all because GMSB is taking longer and longer to deliver the gold and the customers have to wait like beggers. Well, like they said, a sucker is born every minute.

    Reply
      Billy Chiam says 9 years ago

      Dear Lee Mei May,

      Thanks. Just being conservative. 🙂 I believe you know if we based on current projection at least 20% appreciation of its gold value is highly possible.

      We maintain a tight margin and depend on volume for our sales. Why we do so is to provide our customers the best value for their gold purchase.

      As long as customer get their purchase at a reasonable price, they will benefit from it.

      Since January 2010, Great Commission.Biz appointed us as their official website reseller to market his gold online.

      Our company operated to provide physical delivery to customers upon their purchase in 3 business days.

      We’re aimed to provide the best value for customer’s gold purchase as long we have gold available to trade with Great Commission.Biz.

      Our vision to promote our very own Singapore made (Lion Head) gold bars and gold coins to the world market.

      Singapore (Lion Head) gold bars and gold coins will be known in the world market just like the popular PAMP Suisse does now.

      Lets join us to promote our very own Singapore minted gold.

      Reply
      Hamds says 9 years ago

      Dear Lee Mei May,
      Reading through the comments, i have learned a thing or two with regards to GMSB (from your comments off course), but above all, i have learned to respect your perseverance and patience and admire your charming manner.

      Reply
    Magnum PI says 9 years ago

    Now that u mentioned that gold appreciates itself by 30% in value in 1 year, so why are the investors pay add up cash to top up the increasing value of the gold, thus means they wont make anything in the appreciating gold value, just the plain 1.5% a month = 18% a year. So why are the investors want to choose this form of investment to only gain 18% a year compare to buying gold out right and keep it for a year and sells it at 30% more in value?

    Reply
      Billy Chiam says 9 years ago

      Gold appreciate close to 30% in its value for last year in 2010.

      The breakdown based on my calculation below for the past 3 years:

      – around 5% appreciation from 2007 to 2008
      – around 24% appreciation from 2008 to 2009
      – around 28% appreciation from 2009 to 2010

      As long gold demand stay, company dealing in gold would benefit from the appreciation of its value.

      The demand is getting higher each year, as long the demand still hold, people is still confident in gold.

      Reply
    Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

    Hi Billy,

    Yes, Gold Price had hit $1500 today. To invest physical gold in a cheapest way, logon to http://www.goldprice.com.sg. If gold price stable at $1500, it will likely to hit $1700 end of the year.

    Cheers!

    Dennis Lim
    Gold Trader

    Reply
      Billy Chiam says 9 years ago

      You’re right. Gold price just hit new record high of 1505.95/oz today.

      In 4 month current gold projection from the time of writing (21/04/2011), it appreciated around 6% in average till date.

      How do you invest physical gold in the cheapest way?

      1. Invest in gold and get 2% discount for every gold purchase below bank price in cash payment.

      2. For credit card payment, you can enjoy cash rebates or points from your credit card. Check with your bank for more information.

      3. Utilise your credit to own physical gold, no high spread (overprice value) on your gold purchase. You will get the best value for your gold purchase.

      Regards,
      Billy Chiam
      http://www.goldprice.com.sg
      (65)9781-8351

      Reply
study says 9 years ago

Hai lee mei may,

I caught u here lying. U wer saying all the bad things about GMSB and their agents and customers… Showing ur hatrance n proof of disappointment, as if the whole scenario doesn’t serve u up to ur expectation… As I said earlier, I doubt u for ur sincerety in telling ppl bout this n that… What I can say is, all that are rumours without any proof of the real and genuine facts… All ur utters are the thing that comes fr ur mind, fr ur point of view n from ur emotional thinking as a disappointed agent or customer.. And I assume u are the ‘cerewet’ type of ppl who can never be thankful and can’t ever haf enuff with everything… u deny when I said u are oso one of those agents or perhaps their rival… U said u wer a DOCTOR. Bt ur characteristics are very sceptical as a doctor coz my whole fam bunch are fr that profession.. Now, today u say it clearly that u are JUST A HOUSEWIFE, who I guess haf no better things to do, but give full blast of commenting every single second about this topic (sorry, doctors will not giv a damn with all these if either or neither this is their money machine… If u think those doctors are money machine, n u r not that type, now I my prediction is true that u are not a genuine doctor)..

So, what I can conclude here … Fr ur own admittance, I won’t believe whatever u said here, coz all that are only rumors.. Rumors fr a typical housewife who haf no other better things to do than complaint, complaint n complaint. U can lie about ur profession, big inferrency that u lied ppl bout the Whole things!

Hahahaha… Adios! Such a waste wasting my energy putting so many comments like u here… U can say anything n everything u like, coz this is what u like to do n say… The truth is out there. Only smart ppl will have the guts to seek for it!

Reply
    joey says 9 years ago

    I HOPE BANK NEGARA WILL BAN THIS GOLD COMPANIES FROM TRADING AND CONNING INNOCENT PPL OUT OF THEIR MONEY. LOOK AT MY AUNT, SHES 73 , KNOWS NOTHING AND YOU GUYS JUST EASILY CHEATED HER BECOZ U WANNA GET YOUR BIG FAT COMMISIONS. WELL I HOPE ONCE TH GOLD COMPANIES GO BANKRUPT, PPL WHO KNOWS YOU WELL WILL COME AND BURNT YOUR HOUSE AND KNOCKS ON YOUR DOOR EVERYDAY N YOU WILL BE SO EMBARASSED UNTIL YOU COMMIT SUICIDE ![email protected]@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply
Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

Wow! The gold rush is coming back. It hits $1475 per troy ounce. I believe it will hit $1500 per troy ounce this June as predicted by most gold experts.

Cheers

Dennis Lim
Gold Trader

Reply
Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

Hi,

Genneva is not an investment company that alot of people thought so. It is just only a physical gold trading company that provide a program with a buy back guarantee. They provide a choice to the buyer whether to keep it, sell it in the open market or return back to them with their buy back guarantee. It has also a cooling period for the buyer to consider after the purchase which I think is a plus point to the company.

People were saying this is a ponzi or scam and it will not last for one year. But indeed the company had lasted more than 3 years since they started the business in Singapore on Jan 2008.

Infact through this platform, I had accumalated more physical gold reserves for myself by using my existing physical gold to deal with Genneva and I can say that I am risk free. I say this because I believe that gold is equal to money (at present) but gold is not equal to money (in future). With physical gold, you will not go bankrupt!

With the gold reserves that I had, I started to mint my own gold bar, the 1st Singapore-made Lion head 100g 999.9 that was launched last year. It was featured in the newspapers(Wanbao, Zaobao, Business Times) and I was interviewed by Channel New Asia why I started to mint the gold bar. The reason is very simple, I am trying to promote Singapore-made gold bar to the world.

Gold Trader Asia Pte Ltd is handling my sales through his online web portal (www.goldprice.com.sg )using credit card payment. The price is slightly higher than the bank but if you know how to tap on some credits cards that provide cash rebate (upto 5% cash rebate) then you find that it is cheaper than the bank, more over you earn points from your credit cards. If you pay by cash, there is a 2% discount which is also slightly cheaper than the bank.

The purpose to put up this message is to share how I tap on Genneva’s gold trading platform to increase my gold reserves as well as $$$………

Cheers!

Dennis Lim
Gold Trader

Reply
Cool says 9 years ago

Seriously, this seems like a bloody PONZI SCHEME.
Get $ from initial investor, promise buy back in 1 month.
Within this 1 month, get more investors, use the new $ to pay the 2% to the initial investors.
How can you be sure you are at which level you are entering?

2% profit for a possible loss of 100% capital. No thanks. I would keep my $ in FD, Government Bonds and Unit Trusts.

Reply
    Kyon says 9 years ago

    Being hust Cool is nice. COOL n Stupid not too bad. But COOL , Stupid and Shallow ??? You mean they give u some canned food to keep ? Even so, how can it be “loss of 100% capital” ?

    Reply
      Wise investor says 9 years ago

      If something negative happens to the Goldco within the 1st 6 months before maturity, your possible maximum potential Hibah is 1.5% x 6 = 9% only but your potential loss will be 28% if you have to sell the gold in the open market ( 25% discount for selling your gold in the open market + 3% premium that Genneva charged during purchase). As at today 10/5/2011, quoted price of Genneva 999.9 pure gold is RM182/gram while quoted price by Federation of Goldsmiths is RM177/gram.

      The money is yours, so you weigh the risk vs return and make a wise calculated decision

      Reply
    Tampin Gold Agent says 9 years ago

    good, just keep your money in FD and shut up.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      GMSB has so many addicts and as with all addicts, they are desperate to the extend of being rude and vulgar and shows in their character and expose their upbringing. Remember, Madoff can run his Ponzi for 20 years without being rude, vulgar or abusive. What is 3 years for Genneva Pte Ltd Sg? Just ask your friends what happen to the RM67 million parked-in fund collected by Genneva Sdn. Bhd.?

      Reply
        Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

        Hi Lee Mei May,

        Are you from Financial Sector? The way you post your messages here, seem to me you are knowlegeable in this area.

        If you are a Singaporean, I would like to meet up with you for a cup of coffee.

        Cheers!

        Dennis Lim
        Gold Trader
        Founder of Singapore Lion Head Gold bar.

        Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          Dear Dennis,
          Thank you for your message.
          I am just a plain Malaysian housewife who considers
          gold as an internationally recognized hedge against
          the manipulation of the national currencies. However,
          having said that, the goldcos are giving the market a
          bad name with their spin and the less than ethical
          way of conducting the business without transparency.
          Witness the manipulations of GMSB in carrying out a
          business which the goldsmiths had been doing for
          many years without any complain from the public.
          How Genneva had vapourised RM67 million of
          “parked-in” funds, a lot of which are the “coffin money”
          of the Uncles and Aunties. How GMSB sets conditions
          where the customers have to give notice at the end of
          the tenure if they wants to pull out from the scheme
          and how they have to surrender their gold at least 2
          days before they get paid.
          How GMSB, against the tenets of their syariah
          compliant platform, is selling gold which they do not
          have/own. They explain it away as “technical none
          compliance” but this the standard operating procedure.
          They compare this practice with indent sales, forgetting
          that they are doing retail sales and not “capital” sales.
          The overseeing syariah committee is on their payroll
          and close both eyes to the non-compliance. Members
          of the BNM are also buying at favourable terms and thus
          compromising their integrity. This is the power of money.

          Reply
          Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

          To study, I would just like to say that Doctors
          and housewives are not mutually exclusive entities.
          If you care to check with the doctors in the family, you
          will be advised that the kind of emotional state you
          are in is detrimental to you health. Try not be a victim
          the gold rush especially learn from those who had
          “parked-in”. Take care

          Reply
kuching consultant says 9 years ago

yes! ms vivian is back! we can the management is trying to improve here…….this is good for the company & good for us. But too sad to say is, mr poh ted ang quarreled with a consultant yesterday, this consultant waiting for his gold since 2/4/2011…..

Reply
Dennis Lim says 9 years ago

Hi,

Invest in Physical Gold is now as easy as 123…..

1. Buy online @ http://www.goldprice.com.sg at the comfort of your home 24/7

2. Payment by credit card, paypal or bank transfer.

3. Free delivery for purchase of 10g above & within Singapore.

The 1st Singapore Made Lion Head Gold Bar 999.9 Fine gold was featured in Wanbao, Zaobao, Business Times and Channel New Asia last year.

A refferal fee of S$50 will be given (only applicable to 100g gold bar) for every successful purchase online.

Dennis Lim
Gold Trader

Reply
Real Stock trader says 9 years ago

This is bullsh!t investment. There is no such thing as risk free investment. It is not possible. If geneva can do wat they claim, banks would be given them unlimited loans to fund their investments. But they dont get bank loans, which is why they want it from the silly public.

The gold they let u hold is either nt worth what it is suppose to be or u cannot actually use the put option at a sure-win rate or it somehow makes use of new money to continue paying out old money.

Either way, it cannot generate money out of thin air just because it claims that it can. Dont forget when u sell to the company at a gain, the company takes a loss here,etc.

Reply
consultant says 9 years ago

met mr tan liang keat 2 days ago, he said kuching office is going to be a HQ for east malaysia in 1 to 2 months time, kuching office will keep stock for new purchase, all hibah cheque will prepare at kuching…….this is a super super good news for us!

Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

With so many sightings of the Goldco’s consultants doing roadshows outside banks, is it possible that it is encouraged by the goldco to boost flagging sales after the implementation of the 1.5% incentive scheme?

Reply
    Gun says 9 years ago

    I came a crossed a promoter of GMSB at out side Public Bank Kelana Jaya, I asked him which group he belongs to? He answered KC Liew. So I m not bothered to even take photo , now that I know all talk in the meeting is all BS.

    Reply
    xian says 9 years ago

    ya i also saw one guy doing it outside Maybank somewhere, i know his face and i know hes one of PL’s agent. The 2 jokers told u all cannot do roadshow with many reasons, the ultimate reason is they dont want others to compete with them. How u think 50% of the comm paid is from PL and KC group? All these they will report police and all that is BS.

    Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Dear All,

In page N20 of today (17/3/2011) Star newspaper is a report on the charging of three (3) directors of Genneva Sdn. Bhd. for deposit taking related to the pre-21/07/2009 “park-in” gold giving 4.5% monthly. To-date, those customers have yet to get their money back and the parked in gold is nowhere to be seen, all RM67 million worth of it. Even if the Directors are each fined the maximum RM10 million each, they still have a lot of money for the later lifestyle. What is 10 year of comfort as a dato’ in Kajang or Bamboo River.

Reply
    Magnum PI says 9 years ago

    Oh, believe me the 3 dato has more to deal with than just being a resident of Kajang and pay rm10m to government, if they dont get kidnapped again before migrating to Kajang.. lol

    Reply
Steve F says 9 years ago

Goof. Thank you for the explanation of how this works. I assume their business model only works with a steady stream of 20% coming in to fund the older investors . Still a “better” investment than land banking though as investors will be able to recover some of their money hopefully when the inevitable collapse occurs.

Reply
kuching consultant says 9 years ago

i am a consultant of Genneva Malaysia. I submit 2 cases dated 23/2/2011, i collect the S&P today: “14/03/2011” !!!!!
i need to send back this S&P tomorrow after my client sign. Kuching branch will only receive the submission of S&P within 9am to 11am. i will only allow to collect the GOLD on the next day within 2pm to 4pm. By the way, kuching branch is going to have some very big issue coming because of Miss Vivian ( the only one who know how to handle all the shit ) is RESIGNED !!!!! Everyone here just wait & see what will happen!

Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    We believe you should channel to your complaint to “anjing”.

    Kuching to anjing is only perfect … what say you?

    Reply
      kuching consultant says 9 years ago

      do u mean teck ann is anjing ka?

      Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    We wonder why not you also resign …

    Can you please resign? Please … ?

    Go do your whatever somewhere else … TQ to Kuching Consultant.

    Reply
      kuching consultant says 9 years ago

      i dont know who the hack u r, but if u r trying to protect this company u shld face to the problem and settle it ! instead of bitch there bitch here !!! really feel shame on u !!!

      Reply
        Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

        Dear Kuching consultant,

        The noiseman not only does not have any class but is without “jia jiau” and outright vulgar as can be expected of empty vessels. Just give those who shame their own family name the silent treatment.
        One of the 6 tenets for being in the Syariah Compliant platform is that they cannot sell anything which they do not own. To sell gold, they must have a stock of gold. Anything less is a violation of tenets of the Syariah platform.

        Reply
study says 9 years ago

Hoho, what ever DR. Knows Evrything Lee Mei May… When u r talking bout other’s vulgarity n rudeness, in a way it reflects ur behaviour, don’t u know. Who started being rude n being as if she knows everything like God?

I wonder, how do u dealt with ur patients. We have a Cardiologist, who busy with his investment like u when he’s treating ppl. Evrybody complaints, and stop seeing him include us. While checking on his loyal patients, recently his busy looking at the price movemnt and commenting and discussing in a forum from and on and on… Until he giving wrong prescriptions and wrongly diagnosed the patient. We almost sue him for neglicence coz he’s carrying out his job without due diligence…. Bt because of frenship, and respecting his gudname… We just complaint to the medical centre. I wonder, are u the same type? While inspecting ur client, busy thinking what’s the next comment to post? What’s the gold price? When r u going to lock? When are u going to sell n bla bla bla… If u really a doctor, why are u concerns so much of this goldco biz model? Why care much to influence other not to buy? I am very sceptical…

So means, when there is a possibility that u rnt doing ur job with due diligence, means there’s an inferrency that u rnt giving advise here in due diligence as well… Bt in the interest of another goldco or uncle teh… Because the way u delivering ur idea, u sounds more likely to that… And are u paid for every thread u post in this forum? I doubt if u r really a doctor…. Or perhaps a malicious doctor?

Well, whatever! I pull myself from this circle of stupidity… Its a waste to produce negative energy encountering ur crazyness… Like mr. Darren choy said, apologize doesn’t mean u admit to the guilt… Pulling myself doesn’t mean u r rite n I’m in the lose…

As a wise person, I believe every investment has its own merits… Has its own pro n cons. Can’t u live happily seeing ppl chose what they think suits with their investment appetites??? Why must it irritates u so much? Why must it interests u so much??

Not to rebutt, its gud if we haf more choice in investing in gold? I don’t mind buying gold thru spot buy today, n tmrow if I think buying thru genneva is good… I buy fr them? Aftr all… No obligation rite?

This world is full of choices? N why must u become so mad if ppl choose to diversify?? Let ppl be happy with what they chose, we are aware enuff with ur cautious… We take note of that, bt pls… Respect others for what they chose, I guess.. U will live happier tmrow.

Adios!

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Can you please read my input again which says I have the money machine and that I am not the money machine. Why should I have to be the money machine when I have the money machine and can do what I like with my time? Do I have to paint out the picture for you that my money is flowing in without me lifting a finger. So, thank you for your kind illustration but unfortunately, I don’t have worry about any negligence suits. I am more worried about the Uncles and Aunties who are getting sucked into the goldcos schemes. Just a piece of advice, free advice which you can take or just ignore. All you have to is to see the gold inventory the goldcos keep to know their financial position because buying low and selling high is the way to make money. If the goldco just order the gold after the sale (mind you this is not allowed under the Syariah platform where you cannot sell something which is not already in your possession), then it speaks volume of the financial stability and sustainability.
    Sorry if you feels that speaking out of once’s belief is rude but please remember freedom of speech is a fundamental right of a human. I had been giving facts and figures, and if you feel that they are wrong, just tell the forumers what you think is the correct version. No need to be rude and vulgar isn’t it? Don’t you think others have the right to be informed? Protecting your “iron rice Bowl” does not give you the right to deprive others of being informed of their options. You can conveniently say Genneva Sdn. Bhd is not GMSB. But who are the people behind both? Are those who had “parked-in” getting any satisfaction? Genneva keeps saying that their assets are frozen by BNM and they are unable to pay these people their money whereas most of the money is already overseas. Will history repeat itself? Is the business model sustainable? Other than the profit from the sale of gold, what other substantial income does the goldcos have? If not, is it not taking money from the new “customers” to pay the old and to pay off the commissions and overheads including protection? That is the reason the goldcos always have to pressure consultants to increase sales because, if the sales stagnate and/or the price of gold does not keep going up, then the Dato’s may end up in the same boat as the other goldco which had gone belly up. Your customers may then curse you a few generations of your lineage. They will not thank you when they are collecting their “hibah” but you know how you will end up if the goldco goes belly up?
    Thin of it rationally without letting your emotion getting into the way and the answer is there for you to see. Good day.

    Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      don’t have to read what you wrote … all nonsense, all rubbishes, all malicious hallucination ..

      Reply
        kw says 9 years ago

        I thought that is your forte, lol

        Reply
          Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

          you thought, you assumed, you fantasies, you cooked all these up?

          why would you want to do that?

          Reply
      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      Freedom of speech?

      How about foaming in the mouth like you did and always do? How?

      Is that also a fundamental human rights?

      Reply
study says 9 years ago

Ms lee,

Then if u r the doctor professionally, don’t shame urself as if u know everything when in fact u do not know everything. I wonder, n I’m impressed in a way! u r such a rare doctor, coz as far as I’m concern most doctors don’t behave like this? They haf much work to do with their profession. I know coz my sister, my uncle, my cousins n my husb himself are doctors professionally.

If u are just saying it literally, than its proven… U r Such a LIAR? 🙂

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Aiyah, with due respect, those doctors you mentioned must be the money machines. For doctors like me, we have idle income lah, our money machine working for us. No need to go and get insulted by those arrogant Mafia type or risk sleepless nights worrying about the risk of the business model failing. While the gold you are holding is making money for others, the gold and silver I am holding is my asset and maintaining my purchasing power. I buy low and sell high and therefore is laughing all the way to the bank. If you don’t believe please ask uncle Martin Lee our host in LionInvestor. We are very relaxed people with a lot of time on our hand to do what we enjoy doing. Our parents teach us manners and humility, unlike some others who are without “jia jiau” or as the Malays say “kurang ajar” thinks they are insulting others with their vulgarity and rudeness but in actual fact is bringing shame to their own family.

    Reply
      Meily says 9 years ago

      I agree with LMM on mafia, GM has people like KC who talks like he is the smartest..always talking down to consultants, called himself a trainer…creative trainer at that???. Hei! he behaves like an untrained barb. Watch each time he tells a lie..eyes! Co should remove him and get a professional to handle consultants who are their main income generators.

      btw Lee, you’re safe after 13months. You’d have got your 25% back but now they’ve changed the rates again… discount down to 1.5% ( typical, this co does what they like) when sales down, they will revise upwards & call it promo!

      sustainability? only if there are new sales and renewals. Watch what happens when more people retains the gold pieces…their gold is genuine and of course nobody would buyback at spot market prices but lower. Why? why should they buy from you when they could get it at spot prices?

      I think the biz is good as long as sales continues and you have physical gold in possession. Do you realize you’re a lender, holding valuable collateral, to a single customer?

      I like the biz but not the way things are run. Meetings are unstructured (they claimed they are recorded) and become pep talks. communications between Co and consultants ( core sales people earning a mere 0.5% comm) poor. Not using today’s technology to communicate..why?less commitment so that they won’t get crucified?

      Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Dear All,

A lot of people had been lured into the trap of comparing the “huge” profits given by the goldcos to their customers against the low interests given by the banks and the losses suffered im going into “zero sum” schemes such as mutual funds, forex, share market, etc where the equation is :
Winner + agent commission = Loser
Put in simple language, what the winner and agent made is the loser’s loss.

In their desperation to protect their unsustainable schemes, the high income earners does not use facts to convince the public but instead resort to vulgarity and foul language which tend to make customers more wary of such schemes.

For those who are interested in protecting their purchasing power, there are ways in which they can do it without incurring the risks of dealing with the arrogant goldcos. There has to be a paradigm change in thinking. Precious metals such as gold and silver can be traded (purchased and sold) without paying the huge mark up/discount that is “benchmarked by Gold Beam (Gold Bullion Entrepreneur Association of Malaysia) which is an appendage of SGV/GMSB. The precious metal can be kept until you want to sell and profit take when the price is good and a dip is expected. Then the customer can buy back during the dip.
In this case you are really owning an asset.

Comparison of going to a goldco against buying in the open market

Item Goldco open market
Price buying, LME spot plus 25% 3 – 5%
selling, buying price LME spot – 5%
Rebate 1.5 – 2.5% Nil
Physical gold Yes Yes
Certificate Goldco Yes
2007 performance 24% (at 2% rebate) 27 – 8 = 19%
Risk 30% varies with market
With the certificate of origin from the manufacturer of the gold, the gold is universally accepted. With the goldco certificate, if selling outside there will be more discounts.
The choice is yours.

Reply
    George says 9 years ago

    If any of you have not tried to sell the gold out of Malaysia probably they wont know that overseas especially in the european and western countries, all gold they only accept is Suisse standard with certification, their gold trade standard is much stricker than Malaysia.

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear George,

      The Goldco unlike the one which was raided by BNM in May 2010, does not give the purchaser the original Certificate from the manufacturer but instead give a worthless piece of paper identified as the “Owner Cerficate”. It is just like a car dealer XXXX who is not a distributor of branded car “YYYY”, importing from overseas without the manufacturer’s approval and giving to his customers his own warranty card, instead of the manufacturer’s warranty. Reason for all this – they do not want their customers to benefit by being able to sell the gold outside as “Hallmark” gold so that the customers have to come back for re-balancing and they collect the re-balancing fee as profit. In February 2011 when there was a “run” in Genneva Singapore, the Malaysian customers can see all kinds of gold such as Korean, Mitsubishi, Nikko, Bunga Raya, etc. So, dear Uncles and Aunties,
      because you are not given the manufacturers certifcate, your gold cannot fetch the expected price in the market and therefore when you start with GMSB your risk is higher than 30%.
      On the matter of “private” roadshows in Tesco and outside Banks, you may be in the 5 foot way, but if you care to examine the ownership, it is still part of the shop owned/rented by the bank and therefore the owner/tenant have the right to prohibit anyone from hawking his wares.

      Reply
study says 9 years ago

By the way, do u need me to lecture u more bout what is Gold Lease Rate…? Hahahaha just wast my time to feed someone ‘bodoh sombong’ like u.

Of course gold trade per se is not within the authority of BNM, but the concept being used by GMSB is within a gold leasing activities which is part of the gold trade type activities….

Hohoho…. I don’t even know who da hell philip is. But I’m very very very clear with what I’m talking about. Understanding GMSB biz model n what they are doing…. So pathetic, its very new here until u, the Ms KNOW EVRYTHING oso do not know still….

I hope u don’t feel shame by dongrading my intellectual level, when u will surprise to know what I’m doing, not to be arrogant, but for ppl like u??? A lesson given must be!

The most pathetic ppl in this world is those who never been thankful of their life. These complaints are negative vibes they sending to the universe, some negative n inharmonic frequency they are sending to the nature, n in return… It will return,resounds n rebounce to their body n mind system. Which, they will never be happy of life at all. At they end, there is a great potential that they will create suicide! U better be careful Ms Know Everything.

I bet, after I raise my issue, u will create another infidelity encountering whatever I talk… As if u are the Ms rite n mis Know Everything! Hahahaha so sympathy of u! Goodbye, just wasting my time n energy encountering type ppl of u 🙁

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Happy trading with your goldco. You deserves each other and with the noiseman you make it a threesome. Goodnite!

    Reply
study says 9 years ago

Hahaha, I laugh for ur own thinking?? Again n again talking bout the same thing and BNM thingy! I didn’t attent the seminar at all, what for??? And I had known everything about whatever they explained in the seminar, as that is my expertise, understanding the law. So shameful, talking bout one issue to another, after u lost one idea n another to condemn. Its true like philip, don’t like better don’t complaint much. Take it or leave it! I wudnt invest with an agent so unfaithful like u????

First talked it was scam, after realising it is not scam, talked about it sources of income, when never stop round and round taking bout figures that u urself unsure bout the facts, then talking bout legallity and legitimacy when it was clearly legitimate… I have told early, whether this is ascheduled institution or not, it is licensed or not, it is permitted or not… In anyway, many of u do not know still, this is a viable business! U want to say about its legitimacy.. Carry on, they have it.. Eventhougj BNM is saying its not within their purview! Was it wrong when they trying their best to do whatever it takes that this thing is rite in every angle…??? Don’t get urself confuse with a clear fact n make other confuse by ur own confusion!!

Hellooooo, this company is doing a LEASING BUSINESS which must be permitted by BNM. The common leasing business is properties n hire purchase, I’m very sure that u r not clear or perhaps don’t even know what is METAL LEASING! This is simply a business concept in economy! Maybe new in Malaysia, Singapore n some nearby countries, but have been practised widely at the other part of the world??? If u don’t get it or u don’t haf any idea bout what I’m talking about, pls shut up and go back to economic schools, so that u won’t shame urself as someone who sounds so miss know everything!

In Metal Leasing, it doesn’t go the normal ways.. Thus, it goes the other way a normal hire purchase principle is. The barclayss banks and many major banks in the world has been practising this… Yesn-n this metal leasing, u cud use a leasing agreement, bt commonly they use a sale n purchase agreemnt as transaction. How does the concept n what is gold lease rate, u go n find out lahhh… Learn n read a lot lah, I give it as a ur homework. better than talk n talk rubbish n never stop provocating n creating chaos and misunderstandong of the public who still found this as new! That’s why it calls a BLUE OCEAN STRATEGY.

Hoho, before I’m investing… I’ve oredy done myhwork enuff lah, n I will never regret! If the company is cranky… Let them dealt with it n improve from time to time…

My advise is : talk with substance, NOT CRAPS pls!!

Reply
Study says 9 years ago

Dear All,

For those who doesnt know what is Gold Leasing Principles in Economy, How does it works, Why it sells higher price, what is Gold Lease Rates, How does it goes, and why it doesnt go as leasing agreement and use sale and purchase as it future contracts in transaction,….. better shut up lah instead of confusing others and show up ur stupidness by trying to confuse others, making another story round and round again and again with the same untrue facts… i laugh hard … feel so sympathic for those who does not understand still and trying to play against figures again n again….

no other better things to do ka…? this thing had been practised all over the world, esp the banks, its just our govt is left behind…. and today, Genneva Shariah introduce it make it still new in our industry, bt at all means doesnt make it wrong…. go study before spitting rumors….. make urself looks bad at all angle…. huhu so pathetic 🙁

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Study,

    Quote from Seminar organized by Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd. Page 2 of handout :
    Authorities
    * Genneva does not require BNM’s approval
    * Gold trading business is NOT under BNM purview
    * Laid down under M & A
    * Authority – SSM or CCM

    It looks like you went in with your eyes shut and your knowledge is what was spewed to you in the initial euphoria or acquiring Dimensi Sentosa when Samudra GV was “thinking” of using the leasing and factoring platform.

    So if your knowledge is still not yet updated, please try not to embarass your upline and give the company the difficulty of having to explain to BNM as to why its consultant is claiming to be using the “Leasing and Factoring” platform.

    Hey, PL, don’t you educate your consultant meh?

    Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Dear All,

The Gold Bullion Entrepreneur Association of Malaysia – the tool of SGV/GMSB which all consultants are forced to join had given the price of gold sold by GMSB at RM173/gram for 11/3/2011. This price works out to be 25% above the LME price.
Hallmark gold always comes with the manufacturer’s Certificate which identifies the manufacturer, the serial number and the guaranteed purity of the gold and even with this certificate the gold can only be sold at a discount of 5%. Therefore, if the goldco suddenly is not around, the customer’s risk is 30% less the “hibah” of 2% or 28%.
However, in the case of GMSB, they do not provide the manufacturer’s certificate but gives their own certificate of ownership, the gold will be discounted by another 5%, thus pushing the risk to 33%.
Last year (2010), the price of gold went up 28% against the USD. Here the customer is holding the gold the price increase benefit goes to the Goldco and not the customer.

Assuming the customer get 2% rebate per month or 24% per year, the rebate is not even enough for balancing at the end of the year. On top of that, he has to carry the risk.

The other question is sustainability. Assuming the Goldco has rollover sales of RM600 million and new sales for Feb of RM120 million and assuming the “hibah” averages at 2.30%
For February 2011, profit from new sales = RM120,000,000 x 0.23 (25% less “hibah”
= RM 27,600,000
Profit from balancing 20% of RM600,000,000 at 5% additional cost + 25% profit
= RM600,000,000 x 0.20 x 0.05 x 0.25
= RM 1,500,000
Total gross profit = RM 29,100,000

Expenses
1. Hibah on RM500,000,000 at 2.30% = RM600,000,000 x 0.023
= RM 13,800,000
2. Commission at average 1.0% = RM720,000,000 x 0.01
= RM 7,200,000

3. Overhead and misc. expenses at 1% = RM720,000,000 x 0.01
= RM 7,200,000
Total expenses = RM 28,200,000

Net profit = RM29,100,000 – RM28,200,000 = RM900,000

Other expenses had not been taken into consideration. Can the business model be sustainable. Maybe GMSB can enlighten us. Maybe PL standard response is none of your business. But don’t forget, as a customer it is your business because as a customer you are carrying the risks. Make your call for transparency! You are the customers! It is your right.

For the consultants if for whatever reason they are not bringing in the new sales or the price of gold remain sturdy or drop, then it may be the “Swan song” for the goldco and customers will be left in the lurch?

Reply
    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Did you say investing? Sale & Purchase or investment.
    Hey, noiseman, you are promoting GMSB to handle investment?

    Reply
Study says 9 years ago

to lee mei may,

who are here to confuse the market and creating propaganda….? macam cacing kepanasan tak reti duduk diam..???

“adopt the same vulgar and rude manners of their masters, the company.” as u said in gold label threads.

who are u to say that….? and i guess ppl see who are being rude here when i never being rude here…. just creating my doubts about you who never stop condemning?? if u can say out yor doubts, why cant me…? go back to your motherland and do ur own bisnes….

this genneva thingy is nothing to do with me pun, NOR i have any interests with it…. im just stduying their concept before i decided to invest, and for what i belief thats my rite…. and shud i want to buy gold from there, its non of ur bisnes! everyone has their rite, and what u haf been doing is only speculating and manipulating and trying REALLY HARD to influence ppl. But sorry, i STICK TO MY DECISION.

Dont u feel shameful of urself and DONT U HAF BETTER THINGS TO DO..?? i can see u haf so much time doing all these coz u really dont haf any better things to do in ur life!

i dont care whether the company sink or not…. i have calculated my risk, and so what…??

sorry to say, i dont haf much time to entertain all these craps! let u live and ur believe and feel sux all over by ur ownself!

Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    Lee Mei May is a shameless bitch who knows no limit in spitting out nonsenses without actually knowing what she’s dwelving with.

    Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd. is making fools of all their Consultants by making it compulsory to attend training to be given by “BNM” senior officials on subjects of :
1. Syariah Compliance;
2. BAFIA;
3. AMLA
They are charging RM230 per attendee for a meeting which is to all intends and purpose GMSB’s responsibility as follows :
1. Syariah Compliance
BNM stated very categorically that the sale and purchase of gold is outside their preview. Next GMSB will be telling the consultants that they have to pay for their Syariah Committee.
2. BAFIA
What has the consultants to do with BAFIA. It is the company which chooses whether to infringe the provisions of BAFIA or not. Next GMSB will push the responsibilty to the consultants.
3. AMLA
What has the consultants to do with AMLA. It is the Company which chooses whether to infringe the provisions of AMLA or otherwise. Next GMSB will push the responsibility to the consultants.
Gold Bullion Entrepreneur Association of Malaysia (Gold Beam)
This is a creation of Samudra GV and one way or another consultants are forced to be members. If the consultants are smart they can just hijack the organisation as they have an overwhelming majority. But I do not think consultants has the balls since it is being held by the goldco. If you are a slave and enjoy it because of the commission, well it is your pleasure. Good Luck. The Goldco and the Mafia will keep milking you.

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    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    milking you bitch, maybe … you got milk?

    Reply
    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    Bitch, are you from Public Gold, Public Mutual, TGL or Au Niaga or someone paying you to do all these nonsense?

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      Anti Ponzi says 9 years ago

      Hey man, pls be more polite to the lady. Are you from the management, being so pro of Genneva?

      Reply
    Pat Lu says 9 years ago

    Hi Lee Mei May,

    I attended the briefing. Found it most enlightening to understand and to appreciate the tenets and the approach to Syariah Gold Trading Compliance. 🙂

    As consultants who represent the company Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd, we’re equally responsible as Malaysian Citizens to ensure we we’re not used to launder money from unlawful activities and to finance terrorism that might put our country and people at risk.

    Overall, it an insightful and informative course. The speakers were excellent and entertaining. I recommend it highly.

    Click on links to learn more about Syariah Compliance, BAFIA and AMLA down the page at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/about-genneva-malaysia/

    Hey, view my Certificate of Attendance 😉

    Cheers!

    Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
    Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

    Reply
      Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

      Dear Pat Lu,
      Did you hear the Chairman of the GMSB Shariah Committee (Aziz) saying that he go through all the GMSB transactions to check on compliance. Is it true?
      Did you hear him talking about selling a “bird in the sky”, is that not what the goldco is doing. Sorry, that was what the goldco was doing, but now it is much smarter, it just use the gold the customer return for balancing to turn. No need to buy lah, just turn with the gold which the customer leave in the care of the goldco for more than 2 days.
      BNM on 17/02/2011 e-mailed “[email protected]” and the relevant parts of the content are quoted below.
      Quote
      “We note that Genneva has made the following statement
      ‘The company has fulfilled all requirements and has been given approval by Central Bank as Scheduled Institution under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institution Act 1989 (BAFIA). We are also a Company classified under First Schedule of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act 2001 as a “Reporting Institution”‘
      For your information, a Scheduled Institution has to notify Bank Negara Malaysia (Bank) for its operation under Section 21(1) of the BAFIA. However, we do not regulate its activities. In this instance, Genneva just submitted its application for a change of name as previous notification was made under the name of other company which was acquired by Genneva. The activities described in the application was to conduct the leasing and factoring business. Genneva does not require the Bank’s approval to conduct the gold bar trading as gold trading is not under the Bank’s purview as mentioned above.
      Thus, again we would like to take the opportunity to inform members of the public that gold trading is not under Bank Negara Malaysia’s jurisdiction. Members of the public are to be reminded to be more cautious and scrutinize the risk associated with the gold investment before joining any investment scheme which promise higher returns in short term period.” unquote
      In this same long e-mail BNM also mentioned :
      Quote :
      “We have investigated numerous instances involving companies having illegal deposit-taking and trading in gold as their underlying productsthat might contravene Section 25(1), BAFIA such as Genneva”
      unquote
      In any business, where 2 parties are involved, the Seller and the Buyer, it is essential that the consent of both the parties are REQUIRED for any change to be implemented such as the migration of the business from one company to another.
      In the case of the migration from SGV to GMSB, has the goldco asked for and obtained the consent of the other party? If not, then the whole exercise is counter to business practice and SSM should investigate and put a stop to such practice.
      Those who are not in agreement with the migration without having a choice to opt out can report to the SSM for further action. They also have an option to ignore the migration and if the goldco stop paying the redemption voucher, then this becomes a legal issue. The consumer has rights too!

      Reply
        peach says 9 years ago

        hi lee mei may,
        the customer has every right to refuse to migrate from SGV to GMSB! if they refuse, they jst let their contract expire under SGV, it’s that simple!
        i’m a happy customer under SGV and GMSB. under the migration to GMSB, in fact, i had a better deal!
        pls chk your facts before others get intoxicated with these “facts”.

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          Pat Lu says 9 years ago

          Agree with Peach. All who migrated from SGV to GMSB got a good deal. In addition to a new contract of 6 months, my clients received redemption vouchers for the balance due to them (from old SGV contract). 🙂

          Pat Lu (012) 210 4898
          Genneva Gold Consultant, Kuala Lumpur

          Reply
    peach says 9 years ago

    hi lee mei may,
    hv u attended the training on BAFIA, AMLA and Syariah compliance? do you hv any idea what it is and how it is linked to gold trading? in malaysia, most gold cos. fell in contravention of the provision of these acts; either collecting illegal deposit and financing illegal activities with these deposits. while gold trading is not under the purview of BNM, but ANY business that is deemed to collect illegal deposits, BNM will come after them, REGARDLESS!
    GMSB hire an established lawyer with the many years of experience in setting up islamic and conventional banking and a reputable syariah guy to train their consultants with legal facts!
    dude, pls do your homework! i say the same for others who may hv consume and choked on garbage info! i wish u can regurgitate the garbage info!

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Alwin says 9 years ago

stick with Amway la..

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    Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

    Dear Alwin,
    GMSB is organising a talk by BNM officials. Go and listen carefully and then tell your down line and customers what has Syariah Complaince to do with Sale and Purchase of Gold which BNM says is neither regulated nor under their ambit of their sphere of influence. Is it under the Syariah Committee of BNM or just the Syariah committee of GMSB.

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    Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

    Dear Alwin,

    Please record onto video (if possible) all that the bitch told you to do and please report back to her thereafter the event in VERBATIM. Please do not miss a single uttered word. You get it?

    Also, please report directly to the bitch if these Syariah Committee actually from BNM or are they made up of Syariah Committee by GMSB.

    Ooops! Is there a Syariah Committee by GMSB? Hmm … ?

    Seems getting interesting here …

    And after you report to the bitch, then you shall report also to all your downlines, uplines, sidelines, multiple-lines plus your customers, their customers and all other customers. Okay?

    TQ, Alwin.

    Reply
Lee Mei May says 9 years ago

The Noise man is rude and doesn’t have class nor substance just trying to crowd out all forumers. Just ignore him.

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help says 9 years ago

kuching side getting worst……i bank in 23/2/2011 for another 100gm purchase but until now i havnt receive any sms or S&P……ofcos the gold too

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    Magnum PI says 9 years ago

    why dont u get help from BNM? haha

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      Voice Above Noises says 9 years ago

      what kind of stupid advice is that, Magnum PI?

      does anyone from BNM reading this forum?

      Get this Magnum PI into a session with their investigation and he might shut up forever!

      Reply
        help says 9 years ago

        maybe i shld try to claim back my money before i go to BNM. The kuching branch really sucks !! redemption cheque delay, S&P delay, Gold delay……everything delay!

        Reply