Martin Lee @ Sg
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Jardin Smith International

Last Saturday, I was invited to a exhibition held by Jardin Smith International, a local company that sells UK land to investors in Singapore and other countries. Jardin Smith International holds these kinds of events quite frequently, each time at a different venue. In my case, it was held at Ritz Carlton Hotel. I have not been to Ritz before, so it took me a while to find the place.

Upon arrival, I was greeted by a client relationship manager (or salesperson), whose job was to make me feel comfortable and explain to me the concept of how it all works. So I was treated to some free food and there was the usual idle talk before we got down into business.

Having already been to a presentation by another company that sells UK land, I was familiar with the concept. Here’s how it works:

  1. The company purchases a plot of greenbelt land. This is land that cannot be developed unless it is rezoned (a process known as getting planning permission) by the government.
  2. The land is sub-divided into many smaller plots and sold to investors.
  3. The company retains 25% of the land so that it is also “vested” along with the investors.
  4. The company goes out to apply for planning permission. This process will take many years. As such, this is more of a long term investment. We are told this would take five to ten years at the minimum.
  5. Once planning permission is obtained, the value of the land will rise 5-10 times (from your purchase price) and you can realise your gains when the entire site is sold. In Jardin Smith International’s case, 60% of the owners will have to agree before it can be sold.

The reasons why we should investing in UK land (as told by the company) are as follows:

  • UK has a housing problem and land will only become lesser and lesser.
  • The price of land has been increasing steadily (About 20-fold in the last 15 years).
  • 2012 Summer Olympics will be held in London and this will have positive effect on the property market.

The plot on offer by Jardin was being sold for a cool $30,000. An initial deposit of 10% was required and could be paid by credit card. The balance could be paid by credit card and UOB cardholders could even pay by interest-free 12 months installment plans.

I politely told the client relationship manager that I didn’t have the money at the moment and wasn’t interested. She was quite persistent and even suggested I just pay the deposit first. I wasn’t going to do that since I won’t be able to finance the remaining 90%. She was pretty disappointed and made a last ditch effort to ask me for referrals. Of course I would not refer any of my friends to a company that I had not fully researched on.

Tomorrow, I will write about some of the things you need to be aware of if you are investing in UK land.
See also Dangers of UK Land Banking.

Besides the land investment, there was also a side booth promoting a property City House, Croydon in London. According to the person I spoke to, he was helping some investment fund sell off their units.

1-bedroom units were available for about 215,000 GBP and 2-bedroom units for 250,000 GBP. 12% of the amount would be payable within 28 days, another 13% due at completion (end 2009) and the remaining 75% can be bank financed by Lloyds.

The rental yields are estimated at 5% and if the units are rental out, it would be able to cover the interest payments. It looked interesting to me but being not very inexperienced in this area (other than the fact that I can’t really afford it now), I decided to give it a miss.

Leave a Comment:

349 comments
Steve F says 10 years ago

David

Has it really worked out for you ? This is an investment not a social club. Who cares how nice they are to you and what updates you get.

Where is your money. ? (security)
How much more can you get back ?. (returns)
When can you get it ? (liquidity)

Jardin Smith has no real answers for those questions just sales guesses.

The land that Jardin Smith are selling at Water Orton, Shrimps Field and Gerrards Cross has no possibility for development in any meaningful timeframe. Dont take my word for it. Check with the local authorities. It is all protected land. So no chance for a quick return.

If the land cant be developed doesnt it appreciate anyway ?
Yes. Land does appreciate. But if you paid 10 times what the UK greenbelt or agricultural land is actually worth on the open market how many years of appreciation is required before it is worth the dollar value you paid for it ?

Assume an average land apprection value of 5% and that you paid S$10,000 for a plot of land that is really worth S$1,000.

It will take you 50 years to get back to an open market value of S$10,000. Of course after inflation by then S$10,000 will also only buy you a burger.

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David Koh says 10 years ago

Hi People,

This post seems to be getting a lot of attention I see. I happened to come across this site when one of my friends mentioned this me and i had to take a look at it. I have to say its funny reading some of the comments here, spent a couple of mins chuckling to myself. So here’s my 5 cents worth

Having invested in Jardin Smith Intl in their first project and ones that followed I do feel obliged to let people know more them, from what i have read through all these posts most if any of you haven’t invested in them so you only see it from the outside perspective and while some people have done their fair share of research on the topic most are just coming up with random topics to bash them about I guess the free food you ate at the hotel didn’t fill you up enough or maybe not enough vouchers were issued.

From an investors perspective, I feel that land is always going to be a valuable asset to have or hold on to that’s if you can afford to do so it will make you money there’s no question about that.

So from a JSI Investor, I have to say the follow up treatment i have received from them has been fantastic over the years even invested in one of their properties as well which i have already seen my returns on.

I get regular updates on the status of my plots which is not only through documents they print but even from local,town and county council figures and facts and even from their planners themselves now if this was such a elaborate hoax they’ve done an amazing job to even falsify Government Docs.

So the whole big debate here is:

1) Can Jardin Smith Intl be trusted?

2) Does Greenbelt land ever get rezoned?

3)Will the land be worth anything if there is no planning permission given?

1) Well so far from my point of view its done a good job of keeping what it has intended to do, not sure how many of their other investors feel though.

2) Greenbelt Land has over the past 30 years in the UK been rezoned on numerous occasions I’ll quote some examples here.

http://www.propertyweek.com/take-off-or-hard-landing?/3013964.article.

http://www.case.org.uk/story_pointsagainst.htm

http://www.buildinglanduk.co.uk/greenbelt-land-uk.htm

3) Land appreciates no matter what unless of course some natural or chemical disaster takes place on it, such was the case when Donald Trump bought a piece of land in California which had partly fallen into the ocean what did it become? It was turned into The Pebble Beach golf course which is now on the PGA circuit.

But if the land is not given planning permission it’s only not for housing it could be given for other uses instead.Hence there still is value.

Hope this gives a clear and different perspective from the other side of the coin, it still may not be everyone’s type of Investment or Company but its worked out well for me so far.

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eager_investor says 10 years ago

I was invited to their event a while back at Conrad.

The salespersons (they call them Client Relationship Managers). Very pro sounding title, just like banks. the whole set up was also very pro. but the hotel food looks very limited.

as mentioned in the other comments, they try to break the ice. ask about my work, my family, my other investments. the lady was very good though. after about 30+ mins, she asked one of her manager over. i felt kind of weird, why you suddenly ask another person over. the presentation was very good. after the whole presentation, i felt very presured to make payment. they were even offering me an ipad.

i told them that the land is very far. if anything happen to the company or if they run away, i’ll be left with only a piece of useless land. they tried to make me feel better, said something like uk is save. UK is in debt for goodness sake!

they tried all kind of tactics lah. i told them i need to check out more first. then the manager said that what i want to know i can find out with her. i insisted on leaving though. the rep then asked me to give her some referrels. i did not, tired to tempt me with dining vouchers, i still did not.

i went home, got nothing better to do. went to do some checks myself. saw the article from Joe P. they did not tell me about this.

how to buy this kind of land. so bad. green belt (found out what it means). not developement till 2026? this IMO is a very high risk investment, contary to what they said.

went to office, and one of my work mate bought from them their prev plot at birmingham. they even tried to sell him some forest !

forest? thats kind of weird though. then i did him a favor, i got a former classmate staying at birmingham. guess what? more bad news. woah, thats very bad.

the rep called me a few days later. told her i’m not interested after reading all this info. she asked him to go to their office. i told her i’ll skip and she hanged up.

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ecko says 10 years ago

I’m glad I did a search on Jardin Smith. And found that they are involved into land banking. I was invited too for a presentation at Ritz Carlton. Went for it to learn more. I was reminded of how they ‘operate’: from the telemarketing call, to the various reminders, the setup of the room, the behaviors of the sales presenter/manager etc. They are all so similar to timeshare companies, which i was burnt before. The sales presenter talks weather talk-job, life, etc. Then they raise their hands to ask the manager to come. The price of the ‘product’ is handled by the manager. and so on…they are all so so similar.

Anyway, the concept of landbanking is quite ok, making smaller plots of land affordable to small investors to the average person. But it’s how the company handle and choose the piece of land.

I also don’t really like the idea that the land needs to be applied for planning permission. If not approved, that’s bad for the investment. I also see a corner with wine and wine glasses, with a banner – reserved wine or something like that. It seems that it’s toasting time for those who invested. Like…cheers to the future millionaire.

I personally do not know much about land banking. But becos I’m in a network of investors, i was recommended to invest in land in Hongkong. That being, i invested and so it is sort of land banking. Though i know nothing, but becos of the investor group, there’s trust between the members. So i invested, while doing some research. HK while bigger than sg in total land area, the useable land area is only 30% of the total land area. The 70% are not suitable for development; mountainous land. So land being scarce in HK is a good investment. Beside, the land for my investment there is not greenbelt but already zoned for development. I hope my investment in HK turns good. ๐Ÿ™‚

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S.T.Vong says 10 years ago

If one is to entrust JSI & its subsidiaries to manage one’s assets over the next 5-8 years, it is only legitimate that JSI should disclose in their web-site who are their stakeholders, the credentials & credibility management team. Also I shudder to think why they have also not disclosed their most recent financial statements. For those who have already invested you need more than good luck.

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    saiful says 10 years ago

    Hi everyone,

    I have been invited into a land banking seminar next weekend and this event organize by Capitawealth International Sdn.Bhd. located in KL, Malaysia.

    It is a land banking company which sell plots in Wilmslow, Manchester.

    Just want to know either the location is in the greenbelt area or not.

    thanks.
    saiful.

    Reply
Steve F says 10 years ago

If you dont believe the posts above South Bucks lawyers have provided an offical response to the Freedom of Informration request on Gerrards Cross here.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/status_of_land_in_gerrards_cross

This confirms that the site is in the green belt and that it will not be developed . They have enough housing land through 2026 years without even looking at the Green Belt.

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agiko says 10 years ago

LOL…. thank God i found this link when they were on the phone with me just a while ago inviting me for some luxury stuff in Raffles Hotel.

“There’s no free dinner in this world” rules my head and i immediately do a google search on Jardin Smith. Read the first few post and told them upfront, i’ve not time for that.

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dlew says 10 years ago

Lioninvestor / Joe P

thanks for the info. just though pple should really be made more aware about these stuff somehow… i dont think pple will buy these if they knew what they were getting into. even to the folks selling these stuff that i met, entry level pple fresh out of sch etc – i dont think they really know what they are selling, and the senior sales folk probably did a fantastic job trying to sell them the idea in the first place. While there is surely money to be made from selling this, probably alot, but my guess is some of these newbie salesperson are likely made to poach thier family /relatives for sales… which again, hopefully everything works out. otherwise, it is going to be one hard lesson to learn.

and this website is great stuff. kudos.

KC

Thanks, i’m always on a lookout and trying to learn more. dont think i know landbanking well. everything i know and commented on so far – is only specific towards whatever little i know (or assumed) about JSI / Gerrad Cross..

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Joe P says 10 years ago

D Lew

You made a correct call. The land they are offering in Gerrards Cross is greenbelt and cannot be developed before 2026 if ever according to South Bucks Council.

Read here

http://www.southbucks.gov.uk/environment_planning/planning/thinking_of_buying_a_plot_of_land_in_south_bucks.aspx

Or here

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/status_of_land_in_gerrards_cross

Or even here ๐Ÿ™‚
http://www.martinlee.sg/investing-in-uk-land/

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dlew says 10 years ago

I just went to a JSI event few days ago at one of the swanky hotel @ sg. The plot is for gerrard’s cross. Despite all the bad vibe, i thought i’ll give land banking a closer look before making my judgment. i was seriously considering divesting my investment with land banking

the pitch was excellent, the pple was professional, and the freebies are great. they are giving free ipad for every plot purchased. i didn;t expect anything but was given free mooncakes. nice gesture.

their preposition is simple
1) an average person in SG needs 1.6 million to retire – so pls invest.

2) land is scarce and can only appreciate, with no volatility of the market

3) once the land is given planning permit – the returns will be exponential

4) even if planning permit cannot be given – the land will still appreciate. So the worse case scenario when planning permit is not given – is to sell the land away, say 15 years from now, and make 7% yearly profit.

5) they continue to show u all the happy examples and bullish news of housing problem in london. about UK parliament will be agressive in going ahead with new urban development, about olypmics 2012, and about how prime Gerrard cross is, being its close proximity to airport, nature, castles and great schools

6) and the subtle and best selling point to me personally – that JSI retains 25% of the land. thus, implying the JSI will not cut a deal or buy a land (like gerrard cross) that hurts itself. There is definately money to be made, otherwise JSI will not hurt itself by holding onto that 25%. Holding onto that 25% is a brilliant move i must say, and provides such strong assurance.

Here are my comments on the 6 above points after couple of hours doing home work yesterday. i believe spending a few hours before spending 30,000 sgd is surely valid..

1) yes, i agree. we need to have a good saving nest to retire. So it is extremely important to invest, regardless how much exactly is needed.

2) yes, i agree. land one of the best form of investment. thats common sense. BUT investing in land does NOT necessary mean land banking. there are other channels to invest in land. And even if narrowly focusing on land banking, it may not mean gerrard cross or JSI is the right deal

3) yes i agree. the returns will be exponential. But i also think this is a roll of dice. The planning permit may never come. If you can live with this – then good for you, go for it. And accordingly to what i read on the official UK district counsel in charge of gerrard’s cross (they have put out thier urban plan for the next 15 years until 2025) – “they will vigorously oppose any development that undermines thier natural environment and greenbelt”. This is equilvalent on SG govt ‘s URA planning. so not only it is a roll of dice, it is an unfair roll of dice to begin with.

4) this is laughable. who will still wanna buy the land if it is proven to be rejected for development. the land will definately sell at a loss, and even if it happens and if JSI is still around to help, not to mention heavy legal fees involves.. this exit strategy is as good as keeping a torch light that relies on solar power… sorry. no pun intended.

5) this is just selective presentation. cheery picking. or whatever u call it. perhaps for every good news that they show me – there are 10 bad news that followed but is not shown? maybe there really IS no bad news or negative vibes. but it is up to us, as investor to find out if these are applicable to JSI/Gerrard Cross. if after doing personal/independent checks, and i still cant find any negativity. great. i’ll invest maybe even double and sleep well at night. but dont blame of sales folks for not giving us the full picture.. it is not thier job to make life difficult for themselves, and land banking is not regulated..

6) i applaud them for the great move by keeping that 25% in assuring clients. but here’s my personal, random, uneducated guess in what’s really happened. imagine this – what if they already hike the price by 5 times before selling it to retail investor. they already gained a profit for 5 times for that 75% of land. with that, they can forsake the 25% they kept, and use the profit to buy that next plot of land, and start the next cycle.. if this is indeed the strategy, then the land that they chose will be “as cheap as possible”, rather than with “for potentional development”.. well,, maybe they didn;t hike the price by 5 times.. i could be wrong and overstimated the number.. or similarly, underestimated it…

anyway. i am writing this because i notice the family next to me, who looks like down to earth, hard working folks cherishing thier free ipad.. i sincerely hope things will work out for them in the long run.

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    lioninvestor says 10 years ago

    Hi dlew,

    Thank you for sharing. It has been reported elsewhere that the typical markup is 5-10 times, so your point 6 is spot on.

    Unfortunately, that hard working family will learn one day that free is not exactly free. They paid for it.

    Reply
    KC says 10 years ago

    dlew,

    if only you know what i know about an up and coming LB company that focus in Canada land.

    Reply
hk says 10 years ago

its a scam

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UKLAND says 10 years ago

JDoe,
you’re a cheap skate oportunist

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JDoe says 10 years ago

Went for JSI at OneWorld yesterday.
Enjoy the food, took the cash vouchers and that’s it.
The salesgirl was hot too.

Didn’t bother to invest. No money.

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    BP says 10 years ago

    where is OneWorld?

    Reply
    Jp69 says 10 years ago

    J Doe – What product were JSI selling ?

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JP says 10 years ago

better check on the price of the land. markup price more than 1000% to just own a piece of land which so far away…

dear all investor, better be careful before its too late.. also pls do not be greedy.. and they just great about their packaging.. outlook is professional.. dress up.. in 5 star hotel.. also psycho convincing power being trained.

just be careful..

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Steve F says 10 years ago

This site is mentioned on the “what do they know” posting on Water Orton

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/plank_lane_water_orton_status#incoming-97777

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Dan says 10 years ago

Someone mentioned the land in Canada being sold be Walton. Any evidence or first hand info that any of the investors made money from that or at least got back what they put in? ๐Ÿ™‚

i was there at Walton in 2003. Glad to see their plot of land finally developed but theres no evidence to support the fact that Walton’s clients made money from it or that they even got anything from it. I was personallu there and if i remember correctly, there were some questions they could not answer me properly. Also, they got me there on the pretext of giving me a job. That was what turned me off!! ๐Ÿ™‚

So, i cannot emphasize more to do your due deligence first before investing!! ๐Ÿ™‚

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Toolate? says 10 years ago

Thanks Peter B,

The servicing agent that sold me the plot has left the company and the new agent is not responding. I’ve sent email to them yesterday but have yet to get any respond:( . If they still do not reply by this week, will visit them personally.

Anyone out there had any contact with them recently??

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Toolate? says 10 years ago

Thanks Peter B,

The servicing agent that sold me the plot has left the company and the new agent is not responding. I’ve sent email to them yesterday but have yet to get any respond:( . If they still do not reply by this week, will visit them personally.

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Peter B says 10 years ago

Toolate.

The UK land section does appear to have gone from the Jardin Smith website. Like many companies that were clearly offering land plots before it seems hard to tell what they actually offer at the moment. This may be due to the recent very bad publicity related to Land Banking in general .

JSI still claim to be an international investment company.

I would call JSI offices or even go and visit them if you are at all concerned.

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Peter B says 10 years ago

There is a UK freedom of information request raised on the Jardin Smith Water Orton site here

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/plank_lane_water_orton_status

It should be updated in the next 30 days by UK law.

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Toolate? says 10 years ago

I’ve just heard from Walton staff that JS has closed down their landbanking sector, don’t know if it’s true….being an investor myself, I’ve requested for update on my buy via phone or email but just rejected by the new servicing agent ๐Ÿ™

Start to get very worry now……anyone got any latest update on the company?

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nadia says 10 years ago

well…the idea of landbanking is no longer in demand from the public anymore.Just as what the news have published that landbanking…is a spam and cheat people money…

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Cindy says 10 years ago

The sales representative who called to invite me was very rude. Once I said that I’m not interested. She straight away hung up the phone. It really spoil the image of the company.. The number that shown on my mobile is 016 2266402. Do know what is her name.

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Inliko says 10 years ago

Define a forum my fellow investors. This forum is becoming a dumping ground. For people to simply dump emotions? Disappointing. Is so Singaporeans. Is there a professional maintaining this?

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Landmines says 10 years ago

Met up with JSI Rep. 2 yrs ago. and no go for me!
Same time some Church folks boasted about 12.5% ROI with PG all 2 yrs or more story that I can recall!

I just nodded my head with a smile!

Presto!……………..read what happens now?

http://tnp.sg/news/story/0,4136,241645,00.html?

Thank my lucky star!

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nadia says 10 years ago

Well Mr Bravado,do you have any advice on how to handle such issue.If you were in my position,what will you feel?
An employer of yours do this to you.?
Working in a professional firm…Well Jardin Smith is a very professional company…but do have such experience among the workers…
Being fine for being four time late….How to you feel?Well at the first place it is not even the company policy…

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nadia says 10 years ago

tell you more bout them….
They are biased,unfair and racist..
Unproffesional,never follow the rules.

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nadia says 10 years ago

Well,i just hate the superior there.

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UKLAND says 10 years ago

The basic of investing is to be comfortable with the manger (in this case JSI) and know what you are investing in. none of these information is revealed to the investor. do you know who is JSI?, what is their finacial standing? do you know the current market value of the land? most landbanking schemes involves the land being marked up 100% before they sell to you. The holding period is 15 years! that’s a major risk. anything can happen in that time! read the agreement carefully. as an invstor do you have any options if things go wrong?

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nadia says 10 years ago

AND THATS THE REASON WHY I MENTION HER NAME..
AND MR BRAVADO….U NEVER KNOW HOW IT FEELS…
MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET DOWN AND MEET THE PEOPLE THERE THEN YOU WILL KNOW..
SUNTEC CITY tower 2,
23 floor
TELEMARKETING DEPARTMENT
you should aslo faced the same thing,before giving us your comments…
THANKS

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    bravado says 10 years ago

    well nadia, like wat i said, this is the wrong place i feel you should be whining about your ex-employers …

    so umey is a name lah … hahaha , i thought some funny short forms …

    see, caps lock … thats shouting/screaming… why the hell i wanna meet the telemarketing guys? meet the boss better rite? hahaha …

    since you’re an ex-staff … maybe u can share with us more abt them … and posting an address of the company is super unpro loh … u may just get some legal action (if they bo liao)

    Reply
      rine says 10 years ago

      yes,its true nadia wat bravado say u the once sound unprofessional..its oni the TM department superior sound rude wif u bt nt the client relationship manager as im wrkin in JSI nw..my staff n superior is very nice n we wrk as a team nt like TM department. We as a professional sales person we hav our own respective of wrk style…

      Reply
bravado says 10 years ago

hi Nadia,

not sounding rude … but u are one unprofessional person urself …

u dont bitch about your ex-employers in public … this isn’t a Jardin Smith Intl bashing session … and wrong place to post such comments … btw what is UMEY?

well, back to the newspaper article … 2008 went bust ah? wah so long ago, now only publish … like very the slow leh …

anyone has any more recent news about that article? what happened?

imho, an investment is always subjected to risk … as long as the investment is real, i feel if its a good investment, and you can afford the spare cash, then why not … nvr anyone of you heard? no pain no glory …

some comments here are very biase though … it feels like a anti-landbanking session …

can anyone name me one investment w/o any risk … if you can, then you’re most probably a scam … and pls dont tell me fixed D … that’s savings, not investment … even fixed D got risk …

well, want to make BIG $$$ w/o risk… try big sweep or toto lah …

S$3 can make S$2.2 million leh … best investment man … hahaha

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Nadia says 10 years ago

And a refund from me for a $100 fine for being late,was still not given,after several emails sent.however beside sending emails to the boss,i still never receive any news.TM DEPARTMENT

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Nadia says 10 years ago

hie

just to let you people know that i worked in JARDIN SMITH INTERNATIONAL in Singapore,before in the telemarketing department at SUNTEC CITY.
The superior and boss assisstant is UMEY is really very unprofessional in their way of doing work.The team leader,is also unprofessional.They will just blare up all the bad words in the office.The company is really not professinal at all.I am really dissapointed in the way they behave.And they are very biased.They only respect their race and help their own friends.After that incident i QUITTED the job and few of my friends aslo quitted after that.

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dtim says 10 years ago

purchased 2plots of land at water orton many mths ago !! stil trusted their words and promises. Hoping to make some profits in years to come??? recently received their call of theri new project in Thailand. claimed to do pretty well !! if true, i would be glad to hear that.
but today’s news from the Straits time, concerning FarEast land investment in UK .. i’m deadly worried and hope JSI would not cheat thier clients and would work harder and harder so as to gain confidence from their existing and potential clients and to do their best to bring profits to their clients as idicated. Thus, our hard-earned money which has been left in their good hands would be fruitful…….
though, still not sure if i would be the next victim of these circumstances………
what r your advices on this??

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    lioninvestor says 10 years ago

    Hi dtim,

    the thing about such investments is that your exit strategies are limited once you buy into them.

    For those who missed the article, here is the link:

    http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_526464.html

    Reply
      bravado says 10 years ago

      what do you mean ah?

      “the thing about such investments is that your exit strategies are limited once you buy into them.”

      can kindly elaborate pls … thank you much much …

      Reply
        lioninvestor says 10 years ago

        Hi bravado,

        exit strategy means if you want to exit (sell or cash out) the investment, your options might not be many.

        Reply
          bravado says 10 years ago

          oh icic … hahaha … thanks lots man …

          Reply
clarence says 10 years ago

Thanks bro!
=)
going to meet them up tomorrow to do the cancellation.

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lenh says 10 years ago

clarence,

No admin fee/charge, 100% refund as they are quite professional. Let’s say you paid $$$ by credit card, they will ask bank to revert back the transaction and the time is about 2 weeks from you sign cancellation form. Do it fast as you can.

Good luck!
Lenh

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clarence says 10 years ago

Thanks Kim.
Had sms the agent, she told me will get back today on the cancellation form. Was surprised on her quick response thou.
Just thinking is there any admin fee/charge which I should bear?
As in no clause on refund policy..

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kim says 10 years ago

Call your JSI agent , or go to the office , just tell them you want to refund. You fill in form and will get the 10% refund. Of course the JSI folks will try their best to convince you of the good investment , if you really want to back out , be firm…. this is like the direct sales ‘ruling’ , there is a cooling period , within cooling period, you can cancel and get your refund back ๐Ÿ™‚

good luck , do this fast , don’t delay

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clarence says 10 years ago

hi,

wished to back out from my deposit of 10% yesterday with JSI.
was not informed that i can have a full refund, am i still able to get 100% deposit back?
any good samaritans can assist in my query?
TIA!

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Kumi says 10 years ago

Wow…what an eye opener after reading all these entries…

I just came back from one of these JSI sessions at JW Marriott Hotel in KL. Yep, same modus operandi as depicted… Extremely convincing….

But, we became a bit cautious when they insisted that we pay an initial deposit of 10 % right away. And that today was the last day for this land in water orton, birmingham… If we miss t today, then of course we would lose our investment opprtunity.

The sales people were very polite…over friendly and amazingly wondeerful. they even threw in some important names to make this scheme sound very profitable.

Well, if this scheme was as genuine and profitable as promised, when then pressure prospective clents into paying a deposit immediately, before giving them time to check on the authenticity of the whole thing. we are talking about investment of about 70 K here, which is of course hard earned money. Why not let some time for thinking before making a decision.

Well, we left without paying anything..and after reading the comments above, I think we did thr right thing.. probably should think about other forms of investment.

Ppl out there…just be cautious…and don’t be hasty in making financial decisions…

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    BP says 10 years ago

    call me at 94513549 for other forms of investment

    Reply
      bravado says 10 years ago

      yo man … you bashing landbanking and asking ppl to call you for other form of investment? aiyo … very good leh you … share share lah …

      Reply
        BP says 10 years ago

        hmm…

        can you quote which statement I made is bashing land banking?

        thanks

        Reply
          bravado says 10 years ago

          hahaha. my bad. refer to salah nick. hahaha .

          anyway, you got good lobang ah?

          share share lah …

          Reply
lenh says 10 years ago

Win. It is scram. Pls go here to read about landbanking. Better get your deposit back ASAP

http://www.tankinlian.blogspot.com/

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Win says 10 years ago

I attended one such session with Jardine Smith today. Seemed pretty good investment, seemed like low risk. I paid the deposit for two plots. Hmmmm… wondering if i’ve been duped. I’ve to pay the balance 90% by Thursday.

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    BP says 10 years ago

    Win: Did you do a research on the plot of land they are offering? Is it a greenbelt land? If so, I am afraid you will not see any exit for many many years to come. Perhaps your children’s time or your children’s children?

    if you think it’s ok to wait, then you can pay the 90%. If not, go and get the 10% refunded which many have done.

    Reply
Bill says 10 years ago

Walton’s okay. Proven track record. Made money? Yup. In future? Who knows? The rest? No comment until they have proven exits. At this time, they do not. If a dividend is payable monthly or yearly before exit, it is Ponzi. They’re simply giving you your own money back; it is an interest free loan from you to them. Given the cost of capital, seems like a good deal. For the land banking entity. There are many other alternates depending on your risk level. Hey, StanChar is paying .09% and HSBC is paying 3.91% on AUD. Be safe.

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Lady says 10 years ago

Any with experience in Canadian land bank?

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Torn says 11 years ago

Human being is full of greed…
every investment opportunity would not be missed…
that’s our weakness – feeding their business..

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IttoIn says 11 years ago

There is always risks to any investment. People can choose to trust anyone, any company. Go back to the fundamentals of why you want to invest and what makes a good investment.
Why are there people who chose to believe only on pieces of papers, insurance agents who makes commission planning their financial needs then?
I think all investors should just be neutral to different kinds of investments. Be it high or low risk. If you need people or forums to make decisions for your investment, then do not put your money into any. No one can force you to put your money into it unless you want to.

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jj says 11 years ago

I was also being invited from this jardine land banking recently, Luckily this website show some info and awareness.
Seems like they have alot of land for you and me….
So why the rush to put deposite???? they will come again and again with different plot of land..

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JW says 11 years ago

I am just wondering what will happen when they failed to locate one or two of the owners of these sublots 7 – 8 years down the road??
Will the be able to sell the whole piece of land to developers? Can they still sell it without those missing owners?

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Skyview says 11 years ago

Steve steve,

U sound so bitter, did anybody from any land banking company piss u off? Or did any of your friend or family member got “cheated”?

Sure I’ll post the returns bit soon after i contact Lioninvestor.

Arthur,

NOBODY doubted the amount of ROI that shares and funds can bring…… Did I not mention volatility? Just trying to imply that the same amount of ROI could go negative. Please don’t tell me that’s not true, I’ve seen more pple achieving negative ROI then they shld be profiting. I’m not saying it’s luck or due diligence not done, I’m just saying we can’t control the ups and downs of markets. You probably say “we can speculate what will happen 2 months from now”, and I will not doubt you, but there’s a high chance that it will go the other way too. Unless you’re telling me that you can speculate the every single movement and action of companies offering stocks and shares.

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Steve says 11 years ago

Skyview – sure show me the proof of 20% per annum returns over 5 years and i’ll happily apologise. Until then dude you look and sound like a Land Banking salesman.

Arthur excellent post – I do know a lot about UK land banking plots and none of those offered have converted to building land. Lots of people have lost a lot of money. On that basis I dont know how any of these companies can pretend these investments have any realistic chance at all.

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Arthur says 11 years ago

Btw, just to let those pro-land banking folks here who doubted the ROI on other stuff such as stocks and units being able to outperform investment in land.

I subscribed for 10 lots of PEC Ltd’s IPO in early-August this year. Lucky to get alloted all 10 lots at 40cents per share. Sold them all last week at 73cents. You can work out for yourself how much is the ROI within 3mths.

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Arthur says 11 years ago

I dunno how they got my contact number but I just go since the JSI girl on the phone sounded very sweet and sexcited, I mean excited, and pestered me for 2 weeks. Had to do some research after I attended JSI sales pitch session yesterday. This blog/website is one of the results generated by Google using keywords “land banking scams”.

Did not pay any deposit as I told salesperson I got to think about it first/cashflow tight/my fengshui sifu says not to invest in October etc. Did not partake in the buffet as most of the food gone already although I did receive plenty cash vouchers from them.

That said, hope that you all will understand I am writing this in an objective manner.

I had done a ACRA filing search online on Jardin Smith Int’l for S$5 to get their directors’ info, shareholding etc. For Malaysia companies, you can search online likewise using SSM (Suruhanjaya Syarikat Malaysia). Here is what was filed:

1. Company was registered in Singapore in 16th Sep 2005.
2. Nature of business: Real Estate activities (what else?) in Leased or Own Property AND Real Estate activities for a Fee or Wholesale basis.
3. Directorship: Two Angmohs (one is a PR) and two Singaporeans. Names, addresses & ID numbers all listed clearly but I won’t reveal here (I don’t want to get sued for infringing privacy laws).
4. Shareholder: Headstart Holdings Ltd registered in British Virgin Islands (BVI).
5. Auditors: T.S. Tay & Associates.

Those who want to do more homework on the info I provided, help yourself. But to me, any company registered in BVI or Cayman Islands or any of those tax havens that are difficult to trace means a RED flag. Be cautious: someone here already asked why they re-named their company without the “e” in 2007.

Had read FAQs and brochures available on UK Land Registry website. There is a specific item on Land Banking that warns buyers about such things as “we only register land titles in UK. We are not responsible for any re-zoning or planning permission sh*t as that is under the direct jurisdiction of the local council”.

There is also advice on why potential investors should check with the local council on which lands are residential zones, industrial areas, greenbelts etc.

It also says that re-zoning will be the last resort for developing any constituency as there is always already-developed land which had been “laid to waste” due to non-occupancy or the previous developer already given up on the project due to cashflow problems, re-prioritising of projects, projects on-hold, somebody was murdered on the land and case is still under investigation etc.

Impression I got after reading all that is that re-zoning industrial areas to become residential space already seems very difficult. Those plots that are being offered by JSI are most likely greenbelt land, which explains the “low” price but also means it will be even more difficult to re-zone to develop into residential areas. If the last bits of greenery enjoyed by current Water Orton residents are going to be re-zoned, don’t you think they will kick out their MP at the next Elections for letting it happen?

Also checked the Halifax website as I was told they are one of the biggest mortgagers in UK. Last transacted house deal in Water Orton was in 2008. Only one. Does this mean it is not a “hot” residential district? Maybe those with contacts in UK can give a more accurate picture of how “hot” or “cold” Water Orton is as a residential spot.

Most fellow commentators here also raised a very valid point which has also been admitted by the JSI salespeople: none of their “projects” have realised any profit yet, i.e. no proven track record.

I find it amusing and contradicting: JSI was set up in 2005, presuming there is no predecessor company by another name. With no track record, how can its own executives be convinced by their bosses (and in turn also convince their investors) that their projects can realize the humungous profits within 5 to 7 years (I am not even daring to venture into the 10- or 15years projections here)? I guess the bottomline for these execs is: I am only here to sell my company’s products and earn a comm. I don’t want to know whether you will get a profit or even your principal back in 5 to 7 years as I would be in another job by then.

One more very simple thing which I find ironic: if this (greenbelt) land banking biz is so lucrative, why don’t the Brits buy the land themselves? You mean they are poorer than us and can’t afford the land their homes are built on?

No lah, this type of risk is not for me. The more adventurous amongst us may be tempted. Caveat emptor.

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Skyview says 11 years ago

Oh well, I was just merely quoting the “rough gauge” from my consultant. I wasn’t promised of anything, was even told that projects may last longer, and returns may fall below 20%pa.

So Steve, you’re saying that if i get and famous one day I can approach Walton for free land? That sounds so good! But too bad, maybe I’m not that good looking, not so hunky, not so eloquent, not so tall, or even lack the X-factor. Yes, and maybe I should feedback to my consultant to tell their management to include an additional “Famous” and “Not Famous” field in their forms.

Hmmm, yes good one, people who have made money from Walton includes my Aunt (who introduced me to their program), two college buddies of mine, for now. My Aunt invested in a project in Alberta, despite there being a delay, she received a big fat cheque. Do you want me to furnish you with the cheque no. and my Aunt’s contracts and title deeds and insurance copies? Ha, it really doesn’t matter what I can show you with, as you’ll be assuming all these to be fabricated.

Who “need to pay all that money” for my land? You don’t even know the mechanics of it all, so why are you sounding sore about this investment option? Were you burnt in other investments one way or another? Or are you a vigilante in investments and do not wish to see pple being scammed? Proof of scams? I’ve been mentioning throughout this thread to show proofs of scams, not to me, but to the public out there, to prevent them from losing money and to deter the manifestations of scams.

Yeah u know nothing about Walton, I’m sure you don’t know much about any other investments as well. Rather than asking questions, you put them down. I hope you’re not a follower of Mr Tan Kin Lian, because if you are, it would confirm what my friends and I have been discussing about, with regards to the “fans” he’s been attracting to his blog discussions: The “Think-They-Are-Correct-And-Others-Are-Wrong” instead of the “Teachable Hearts”…

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Steve says 11 years ago

“based on a conservative 20% pa simple interest, weโ€™re looking at returns of USD 80,000. ”

I dont believe a word of it and I know nothing about Walton. Your pitch look like a Walton saleperson to me. Forget about famous people – they get their land for free so people like you will buy it. The question you should ask is who has actually made money.

Canada is a huge place and has a lot of empty land. Why do they need to pay all that money for yours ?

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Skyview says 11 years ago

Wow wow wow, looks like I’ve been missing out on the conversation! =)

To Steve:

Yes I’ve read the article on the syndication of foreign land investments in Asia that u mentioned. Bottomline is, there is no way a project exit can happen due to the nature of the lands the UK Land Banking companies are targeting. Like what you said -> they are sitting within a greenbelt area / agri land, or they are reserved by the Government for development, and since this is so, you wanna do concept planning for such a piece of land? Sure you can do anything you want, maybe on your own drawing block or something. Likelihood of approval? almost impossible.

The only land plots that I know that were once reserved by the local Government and in the end, they ALLOWED Walton to do concept planning for it. Now the first batch of residents have already moved in. It is called Skyview Ranch in Canada. Initially, planning for the land would only be done around 2010 time frame, but Walton was given the green light a couple of years back. Now the project has exited, all its investors went gaga over the returns despite the higher taxation in Canada.

Oh btw, Walton is syndicating lands from North America, and is holding onto an audited (by PwC) track record when all other land banking firms have not seen the exit of even ONE project.

To Javen:

Eh? I thought you wanted to contact me “out of this forum”? Now you’ve gone all quiet? You’re really from the Hawaiian (not) Land Banking company huh?

To Bravado:

Steve mentioned magic rocks along with land banking as they are not your conventional stocks, endowment plans, Fixed Ds, unit trusts and wudeva household investment options you can think of.

You’ve got some money doesn’t mean you have to invest it. Planning to get a new home? A new car? A new golf set? A quick getaway? how about donation to an orphanage? But if you really do wanna consider making your money grow, you gotta do your due diligence, as thorough as possible and as much as you can. How about let’s start with what you deem as “risky” and “not so risky”?

If you wanna consider land banking, what do you know so far about it? Pls don’t just rely on the comments here ah. In fact, this would be the second question you will need to ask for all the available investment options, not just land banking.

Have you been reading Tan Kin Lian’s blog? If you did, then did you read the sections related to land banking?

People like to go to Mr Tan for advise, one of the topics that Singaporeans have been complaining about to him is land banking. Yeah, the usual stuff, about how they have not gotten their money back and so on. Not questioning his credibility (as I feel that he did a good job being the ex CEO of NTUC), but at some point the blog was positioning itself to “help” those who got suckered into land banking in SG. And I did commented on his blog before that seemed like he knew the details of the scamming company, why don’t expose them, have them investigated and prevent future damages on our fellow Singaporeans? All the secrecy opened up more room for the typical damn jia lat and kay por Singaporean to give their two-cents worth over an issue that they have little or no knowledge of. Being “big mouth” and bad-mouthing at the same time is SGeans fave past time, isn’t it?

I’m so into this topic now, as I’ve mentioned before that I’ll investing with Walton soon after my funds are ready. I’m so excited that I would want to share with everybody. I went through great lengths to dig deep into them and frankly speaking, this is my first investment.

Why not stocks? Unit trusts? Well, if I’m Warren Buffet, yeah I will as my portfolio will consistently bring about 25% to 30%. But since I’m not, and I’ve yet to begin doing homework on market-related (speculative) instruments, I will start with land banking with Walton, then slowly diversify from there. Walton’s exited projects for the past 30 years were audited with a weighted-average of about 15% compounded interest. Now that figure is self-explanatory -> If you’re well diversified within Walton itself, you’re already a Warren Buffet (percentage wise la, not money! lol!)

A lot of local celebrities and big names are investors with Walton too. And guess what, my consultant passed me a Walton video! And the speaker for the 6-min video was Alan Wu. Im not sure if he’s an investor, but my consultant told me that Irene Ang, also from Fly Entertainment, is a big time investor.

How much am I gonna start with Walton? I’m just parking with them my spare cash, and of course, not a lot la. But definitely at least 3 or 4 units worth, which works out to be the average amount a Singaporean loses during a recession. Hey, I’m just drawing the possibility that shares may go negative too eh! Land value appreciates, stocks are volatile. Different risk appetites, different point of views, nothing to argue about here.

Just a parting note, this is what I’m planning for: 4 units after 5 years based on a conservative 20% pa simple interest, we’re looking at returns of USD 80,000. Together with the money earned during this 5 years, I guess I’m looking at getting married and getting a new home. =)

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bravado says 11 years ago

aha … i knw what u mean …

so u’re like the investment guru …

so in your opinion, what is a good form of investment?

i actually won some money recently and would like to invest in something that is safe …

what do you reckon???

anyway, why do you associate land banking to things like magic rocks???

from what i heard, these land banking companies give real title deeds from UK leh … can give fake ones ah???

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Steve says 11 years ago

I haven’t lost money on internet lotteries, nigerian money transfer schemes, oilpods, magic rocks, or UK land banking plots. My opinion backed by a lot of independent facts is they are all very bad investments.

If you disagree feel free to put your money in them. But dont complain when they go bad because you were warned and the information was available. You chose to ignore it.

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Steve says 11 years ago

Another good UK article on Land banking here

http://www.learnmoney.co.uk/advice/advice-87.html

Selected quotes.

“For some reason the land banking companies have aggressively targeted the Asian community”

“The sad truth is that there’s a 99% chance you’re being (legally) set up to buy land which has little or no chance of receiving planning permission over the next 20+ years. Although of course the land banking firm will give the impression that planning permission will soon be granted.”

“For most investors dealing with a land banking firm will result in them losing the majority of their money. And I can’t really put it simpler than that.

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    bravado says 11 years ago

    hey steve,

    seems like u’re really anti-land banking???

    have u invested in it before?

    have u lost a gazillion dollars in it before?

    Reply
bravado says 11 years ago

haha, good one …

burn money … anyone doing that is loco man …

http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/building-land-plot-sales-warwick.asp

maybe not from those company, but land are sure up for sale !!!

no one will buy land??? not really sure about that statement though …

point to ponder

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Steve says 11 years ago

I cant comment on Canada land Bravado but I am an expert in UK land banking plots. You dont have to believe me though. You can check with the UK press, government and consumer groups.

Search for โ€“
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=UK+land+banking+scams

There are zero= none = nada audited successes for UK Land Banking plots schemes in the past 7 years. The major reaon being the highly inflated price at which the land plots are sold over their true value and the fact that no plots are eligible for consideration for planning permission because they are green belt or otherwise restricted land. There are also many Land Banking companies that just failed or ran away with the money. This is despite the largest and longest property boom cycle in UK history which is almost certainly now over for the forseeable future.

The only way to get your money back on a UK land banking plot is to complain loudly to the company that sold it to you in the hope they will sell your plot to someone else to keep you quiet.

If you dont believe the evidence then I have an investment tip for you from the UK site property scam.

1: Take your money and put it in a big pile.
2: Set fire to it.
3: Enjoy the heat and light for a minute or so.

This is more return than you will get back from a UK Land Banking Plot investment..

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Steve says 11 years ago

How about this – this investment has no chance of return.

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    bravado says 11 years ago

    come on man … why don’t you kindly share with us all why?

    i’m quite sure you have a reason (valid or not) …

    you sounded pretty confident …

    Reply
steve says 11 years ago

I note that from the Jardin smith site that they offer something called a concept plan. Please note that this plan has no bearing on any kind of planning application and is meaningless under UK law.

The primary purpose of the concept plan seems to be to convince customers that the land might be suitable for building on in the future. As mentioned above there have been no successful conversions of UK land banking plots since the change in legislation in 2002. This coinciedentally is when Jardin Smith claim to have started sourcing their land.

If you are offered UK Land by any Land Banking company your best route is to check with the UK local authority on the current status of the land.

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Steve F says 11 years ago

The Land Banking Company will include lots of references to the following

* UK land price inflation
* UK house price inflation
* The shortage of housing in the UK
* High levels of UK immigration
* UK government statistics
* The UK Olympics in 2012
* Proximity to highly valuable land
* A quote by Mark Twain

Using the above they will try to convince you that UK land banking plots are highly valuable and your land is likely to be converted to prime building land in the near to medium term. They will try to convince you that the UK Government is about to announce a major house building program in the area and the conversion is almost guaranteed.

So here are some key points to consider

* It is very rare for UK Green Belt land to be converted to any kind of building land. Typically if land is converted it is for the purpose of national of local interest. Examples would be for an airport or power station. It is even rarer for Green belt land to be converted for house building.
* The Land plot you are buying is typically offered at between 10 to 100 times uplift on the current real market value of the land. It has no real value today.
* There have been no [=zero or none!] successful conversions of UK Land Banking plots for building land in the 7 years since the change in legislation in 2002. This is despite the biggest UK house and land price boom which peaked sometime in 2007. UK house and land prices are now declining.
* There is no shortage of house building sites in the UK.
* If your land is used for 12 years by a third party they can claim ownership of it (squatters rights). You should be notified after 10 years but the cost of defending your ownership may be more than the value of the land.
* If you fail to maintain your land you may lose ownership.
* If the selling company fails how will you sell your land plot and who will buy it? Open market resale land plots are selling for 0.5% to 5% of their original purchase price. Most land plots will be abandoned as the cost of selling them will exceed their value.

Dont be pressure sold.
Contact the UK Local authority for your Land plot before you buy.

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    bravado says 11 years ago

    wow!!!

    how do you know so much … you sound like you are the queen of England or something man …

    have you been cheated by any of this so-called scams??? or are you some kind of land expert?

    no pain no gain … i personally feel that this kind of investment is not for those with no spare cash …

    which investment is risk-free???

    i dont think such investment exists … if all forms of investments are risk-free, sure to make money, all of us will be rich !!!

    so, like what i mentioned before, we shouldn’t just be so one sided …

    i personally feelt that these points makes sense:

    “UK land price inflation
    * UK house price inflation
    * The shortage of housing in the UK
    * High levels of UK immigration
    * UK government statistics
    * The UK Olympics in 2012
    * Proximity to highly valuable land

    those are true … facts … not some things that are made up …

    well, go figure …

    Reply
Skyview says 11 years ago

Heard from my friend ytd that a consultant from Walton called him and invited him for a hotel seminar this Friday (25/09) at 7.30om at the Concorde Hotel (previously known as Le Meridien).

I’m definitely not going, I’ve already been presented!

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Skyview says 11 years ago

Bravado, there’s really nothing much to ask about. Like I mentioned, though not confirmed, it might be a targeted attack. And yes, the ~5 year old Edgeworth was praised in the article! I really feel sorry for Walton, being the only land banking company with a PwC report is as good as not having one. Like it really matters anyway, since a small and young company “sounds” more credible than a 30 year market leader with a track record to boast of.

And for the first week of Sept, Walton gross sales amounted to 3 times their monthly average. If Walton is a scam, then why put so much money with them? In fact to the majority, do you know why pple would want to invest with Walton?

Cheers!

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bravado says 11 years ago

Hi Skyview,

I totally agree with you …

We can’t just base this whole land banking thingy on just one investor … Why don’t the reporter ask those that have made money???

Anyway, that paper is not really that good … All full of adverts only …

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    Skyview says 11 years ago

    EH disclaimer!

    Bravado may have agreed on some of the things I said, but it doesnt mean Im liable for any thing ok? And of course, we may not be 100% accurate!

    Pls do your own due diligence! Thanks.

    Reply
bravado says 11 years ago

Hi Guys,

I’ve read this article on land banking in the newspaper a couple of days ago …

so i decided to google it … guess what? i found more negative comments compared to posititve ones …

but what’s most interesting is the comments made by some …

i would like to point out someone in particular -> AG.

u seem like u know alot about this Jardin Smith or Walton? were u formally from one of that company? did you not perform and got the sack? so this is your little way of getting back at the company?

well, one of my ex-colleague did that to my company, a major airline … close to our heart …

i feel that everyone has the right to say what they want, but AG seems like he’s going all out to hurt Walton or Jardin Smith’s reputation …

well, AG … here’s a question for you? do you even invest in anything except your lunch?

do you not have anything better to do in life? hahaha …

well, from what i googled, this whole thingy started on the wrong track.

“Having already been to a presentation by another company that sells UK land, I was familiar with the concept. Hereโ€™s how it works:

1.The company purchases a plot of greenbelt land. This is land that cannot be developed unless it is rezoned (a process known as getting planning permission) by the government.”

this statement is not really true … all land needs permission … not only green belt …

well like what many others say, if you’re going to put so much money into an investment, pls do your homework and not just read all this comments from people you don’t even know …

you do not ask a ice-kacang seller if cendol is better?

smae goes for not asking a butcher how to fly an aeroplane … best thing is to go to the experts … people working in the industry and nt some friend or relative who got to know about investment through forums like this …

enjoy your pointless arguments …

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    Skyview says 11 years ago

    Sure Bravado,

    Pointless arguments? Maybe, and No, I’m not a ex-staff of Walton, neither am I a client, and as much as I feel that the concept of land banking, or as Walton calls it as Pre-development Land Investments, is a good way to hedge or diversify your portfolios, I also feel that a lot of people who have posted in this forum, and others alike, do not know what they are talking about. Not everyone likes land banking, but at least grasp the concept ACCURATELY before flaming others, especially Walton. I thought the PwC report from Walton is impressive and the recent ads on Sunday Times. After I liquid my holdings, I’m sure I will go into it. But that’s for me, not in any way “enticing” or creating a facade that land banking is “damn good”.

    What Profitable Group (UK greenbelt areas) does is so different from Walton.

    Actually Edgeworth is kinda ok, from my perspective. But they are so young and their monthly company sales is so little compared to Walton. “Oil sands” VS “lands in the path of growth and sustainable economy in the next 20-40 years”, you all be the judge.

    Read abt the Mdm Wong article in The New Paper weeks ago? The time frame “she” quoted was wrong, and even if whatever “she” said was true, the project have yet to be exited.

    My friend from SPH was wondering why Walton didnt comment, but according to Walton, they couldnt care less. Damage control? What damage? All I can say is that whoever tried to flame the 30-year old company obviously failed badly. In fact, I felt it was a targeted attack as on the very same day, there was the first public hotel seminar hosted by another company selling Hawaiian lands. I know who are the people behind the hawaiian lands, and to Bravado, yes, this IS the classic case of “getting back” to an ex employer.

    But seriously, whatever happened doesnt mean all probable investors shld not do your own homework and rely on what pple talk about. Confirm die, that i can guarantee without MAS coming after me.

    Reply
Michael says 11 years ago

Guys,

I read with interest your views and news on this subject matter – some of you are very passionate about it. I work in the industry and I am happy to say that just about every entry I have read so far is factually confused. This is the wrong place to get factual representation about this industry – it is full of complete and partially incorrect statements. They say a little knowldge is dangerous and you prove the old adage right.

Some of the self proclaimed experts who, validate their expertise by only having visited a land investment company once, are endangering the investments and careers of hardworking honest people who invest or work in good faith with various land investment companies.

Should you care to reasearch this subject matter more deeply, you wll note there are UK govenment web sites which point to land conversion numbers.

The problem with the internet is people can write with anninimity and therefore can say what they wish true or not.

If you are uncomfortable with this investment you do not have to invest. For those who insist on missrepresenting the facts, I suggest you either do your reasearch or better still get a job.

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    Skyview says 11 years ago

    Hi Michael,

    Welcome to Singapore!

    I guess it must be your first day here, so tell us, why do you think we are confused?

    Ah there u see, the power of the Internet as a broadcasting media, info dissemination internationally. Let’s stop being “land banking experts” for a second and think outside this community. Ever wonder why UK made their plans and developments publicly available, esp over the internet?

    Of course, and I agree with you, and I guess I mentioned that SG netizens and others alike are generally damn good at flaming pple and are super myopic. We can’t do anything about it can we?

    Are you from JSI btw? =)

    Reply
    Skyview says 11 years ago

    Oh, btw Michael,

    Although I’m not an expert in UK matters, but are you aware of the economy in UK?

    The reason why I’m asking you is this …. What drives the demand for land?

    You may not find the link from my first Qn to the next, but you mentioned that you’re in the industry, so I just wanna see if you’re selling by fundamentals / concept or by whatever that can be validated off governmental sites.

    Reply
Intheknow says 11 years ago

will this turn out to be another ‘UAG guaranteed buyback scheme’?

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    Skyview says 11 years ago

    Agreed with Javen that some of the greenbelt areas look nice, and did JSI planned for the development of Heathrow airport? I’m not aware of the land parcels acquired by JSI, but if JSI did acquire the greenbelt area with Heathrow airport on top of it, then its clients would have gotten back their money. Buyback? There’s no need for buyback if the plan was to build an airport there, the only uncertainty was the time frame needed for JSI to plan and get approved and having the developer to buy the land and the plan over from JSI (project exit), this is when the clients get back their money. Also, the amount of profit they get back is uncertain too, but definitely not equal or lesser than the purchase price because of value adding.

    Intheknow mentioned about “guranteed buybacks” which is the same as Capital Asia Group’s biz model. So their clients are promised of the “30% in 30mths”. I went to their seminar last Sat at Pan Pacific, asked questions, but got no answers.

    Reply
      Javen says 11 years ago

      Spot on Skyview…from what i gather, first of all,JSI are only land owners and managers. They use a planner. Heathrow airport’s land is not own by JSI, but whoever owns it must be drown in motherloads of cash. lol.

      JSI are targeting lands which are likely to be rezoned for affordable housing developments. They mitigate the “exit” period by a few factors….the max you will have to wait…is 20 yrs.(which in my case, i will either will it to my son or if he’s not been a good kid, then i will take my returns and run a playboy mansion like hugh hefner by 60)..the exit period all boils down to the location, as of how all properties are.

      Just thought it would clear some air on greenbelt land not being able to have development on.

      P/S:They don’t guarantee buy back…but neither does the companies which i have invested stocks in…lol..

      Skyview fill me in abt capital asia group, it intrigues me seems like this is the wrong forum to be talking about them….how can i contact you outside of this forum?

      Reply
        Skyview says 11 years ago

        Hi Javen,

        Are you from Capital Asia Group? =)

        Reply
        Skyview says 11 years ago

        And if you are, yes I know, CAG “is NOT a land banking company”… yes … for those who have attended the seminar by them, yes we hope u guys can stop repeating that.

        You’re not right? =)

        Reply
        Skyview says 11 years ago

        Oh and Javen, talking about capital guarantee, did you see the ST article on capital guarantee / protection usage and correctness of their applicability by MAS?

        Walton dont guarantee the capital, and they also dont protect the capital amount. Simple, cuz you already own the land (hard asset); whether its UDI or not, only u and your name is on the title deed. The title deed, despite it being just a piece of paper, it directly links u as the owner of a specified UDI unit(s) of the land. As least you dont own just a piece of paper. Sincere sorry to the victims of high notes and mini bonds.

        If Walton goes bust, you will be holding onto a UDI of the land. And land with partial planning (assuming Walton has not finished doing so) already has its value increased.

        And im sure many vultures out there are willing to buy Walton’s lands. If Walton goes bust, you will only lose the management that transacts on your behalf for your land (yes, you will need to sign the power of attorney). In other words, you will become the manager of the land, not just being the owner. Pls dont tell me that you will want to build your own Fountain of Fortune on it, cuz if you do thought of it, then Im sure you do not understand the concept of land banking.

        Im sure alot of comments on signing of the “power of attorney” will come in =)

        Reply
        Skyview says 11 years ago

        Lastly, about CAG, my friends threw away the folder and other info i noted down during the talk. Though some of them are punters and would not consider land banking, they said CAG is really … hmmm … better dont quote….

        They started really late, rushed through the presentation. Really vague in fact.

        And they mentioned about the following (with repetitions of about 1000 times i think):

        – “We are not a land banking company”
        – “We guarantee BUYBACK”
        – “We got Black and White”
        – “I had invested with THIS land banking company, and now I feel that I wont get my money back”
        – “We already got people Q-ing up for our units”

        My feel about this? Funding for development. Well, they are not land bankers, and they are definitely not real estate agents, so which means they are the in-between guys la, aka the developers! Hmm more accurately, they are like the agents for the developers.

        Now, the thing about developers are they are either heavily in debt or they are exposed to a chance of prolonging the project time-frame, due to sudden rezoning by the local governments and other issues. We’re talking about the U.S. here.

        Btw Javen,

        Just curious, how’s your stocks being performing? I was talking to this guy at a friend’s party last week and he mentioned that his portfolio generated 75% in the past 6 mths! Yes! power!!! until I asked him “what about the 6 mths before this 6 mths?” which he smiled bitterly at me and said he need to use the gents.

        Didnt Walton deliver 17% p.a. during March-April period, a really dark period during this recession time? For those who have read the ads by Walton on Sunday Times over the past two weels, they will be able to tell you the answer.

        Now the question is how many SGeans have achieved above 15% at least during the recession period?

        Reply
        Skyview says 11 years ago

        I can be contacted here for now, but if you need the info more than a 3rd party’s perspective of the company, then I suggest you to visit their site?

        Beware of the grammatical errors.

        Reply
Javen says 11 years ago

Hi all,

I have just attended JSI seminar, i did not put down a booking fee as i wanted to do a little research….

Other than visiting various forums like property scams and such, i also did my research through UK government websites and also i went through news articles on UK current affairs such as the below, thought i could share what i have found with you guys…

Heathrow airport is actually built on greenbelt land:
this piece of article is dated 2006.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/dec/05/politics.homeimprovements

More on greenbelt:

http://sandbox.opsi.gov.uk/paper/barker_review_of_land_use_planning/chapter/2/section/responding_to_increased_demand_for_land_beyond_current_urban_envelopes/section/making_green_belt_policy_work_better

This is a site which provides more information on greenbelt and what are the fundamentals that prevented development on it:

http://www.slough.gov.uk/documents/chapter7.pdf

The very severe housing crisis that’s happening in UK(as of 2009):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/jan/22/housing

http://www.build.co.uk/construction_news.asp?newsid=98414

http://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_issues/the_housing_crisis

Summary: I think what JSI has shared with me is pretty viable. My POV is that many aspects contributes to the “housing crisis” but there certainly is a demand for affordable homes.

The fact is UK need to lower their property prices. They can either build more and hopefully create a competitive environment which will affect the home prices or they can do something about their high interest rates.

Looking at their current project in water orton…well i like it…it is in a nice location.

These are my thoughts & research. Feel free to dispute. Cheers

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Skyview says 11 years ago

eh wait…. im not pro-US ok. Im just saying there are opportunities there, and there’s always risks to any investment. Most importantly due diligence needs to be done.

Reply
AG says 11 years ago

That’s a reply to skyview, since his last tread did not invite for a reply. Rgds all

Reply
    Skyview says 11 years ago

    I totally agree with you on the greenbelt issue. In fact, NO (to my knowledge and homework done) firms offering greenbelt areas have any of their projects exited.

    Anyway, as much as I wanna share according to the info i have, I dont wish to invite comments that im affiliated / related to Walton.

    Im not saying you’re a bad apple, sorry if i sounded offensive, as i felt that your previous comments meant that land banking would directly link to greenbelt areas in UK.

    Just sharing from the hardcopy info i have on hand, I would like to affirm that there are opportunities in the US.

    Well, the Hawaiian lands offered by the two week old Capital Asia Group is definitely not part of the opportunities that i’ve got on hand. Of course, they are from different land banking companies.

    I will be heading down to the talk given by Capital Asia Group later in the afternoon at 2pm at Pan Pacific Hotel and see how they can ASSURE (YES! ASSURE!) that the land units would give me 30% in 30mths. In fact, the 30-mth period is pretty short in landbanking terms. I will also want to check the 30% returns is overall or annual simple.

    Just to start the ball rolling, the opportunities in US lands are congregated in only a few areas, Texas being everybody’s fave as its tax free and even if throw in lots of money, you’re subjected to only the Federal tax rate of 15% on the profit.

    Next would be Georgia and Arizona. Common traits between these three states would be, increasing net domestic migration, diversifying economies, presence of Fortune 500 companies, well interlinked important Interstate highways, increasing single-family housing permits (check this out for those who may be interested: http://rismedia.com/2009-08-22/single-family-housing-starts-and-permits-rise-in-july/), and alot more other factors.

    To AG: Does this sound better than having a company tell you that one day the Govt will release the greenbelt area that u invested in to some developer?

    Reply
AG says 11 years ago

Sincerely speaking, how many plot of any at all did you invested in landbanking schemes, so much so that you got to enhance your own confidence in these company?

Exactly thatโ€™s the case/ There are so far NONE of the landbanking companies, be it in UK, HK SG or Msia based , has any record of successfully converted some greenbelt/agriland or some even seasonal flood water retention land into plots with planning permission , let alone promoting it into residential/industry viable plots ! In many but not all of these companies, they donโ€™t even sincerely submit applications to various authority for such planning permission. They just act for show in file paper to enhanced confidence of potential investors so as to prolong their business model or scam!

I m not a bad apple in the basket, but feel obligated to share some details:

UK Uni mate of mine who worked in jaguar factory at Birmingham , whose parents and relatives are farmer and landowners of land surrounding Water Orton, highlighted that many if not all, lands at Water Orton are designated for agriculture sustainability and flood water retention valley. It has been like that as it is now for centuries. Some titles did changed owner but none so far as to applications for other planning permission.

Those pictures presented in G.Earth are taken yrs ago in the dry seasons or after harvesting. Try to ask for recent photos of those areas during the presentation, you will be surprised of the reply of excuses!

As for info about Landbanking other than UK, like US, too bad that I do not have friends in those landbanking areas that could offer some help. Maybe Skyview would sincerely care to share some!

Dear Investors,

“No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.” Robert Heinlein

Reply
Intheknow says 11 years ago

pressure tactics..

1. fear of losing out
2. herd mentality

Reply
timberlee says 11 years ago

the JSI is calling to join this sat, after reading this better not go,

What do you all think?, If we start selling some plot in ulu langat malay reserve or negeri sembilan with promise that the future PM might consider converting to freehold bungalow land, will the mat salleh pump in their money or not? hmm it is time to made some GBP…

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    AG says 11 years ago

    Ya, instead of conning malaysian’s money, hope those landbank companies help Malaysia to get FDI $ for homegrown landbankinfg schemes ! It’s good deed and if they are so deligent and smart, they could do it in london and NY too ! he hehe

    Reply
      Skyview says 11 years ago

      Generally speaking, every company, be it a soft toy maker or pantyhose packaging factory have their own business model to make the most profit out of their ventures.

      The first thing you and Timberlee insinuate is the scamming nature of such investments.

      Like I said, do your own due diligence first before flaming, and if you have evidence to confidently call it a scam, report to your local police or BNM first den post your evidence here to educate all other diligent readers!

      London and New York? sure why not? who’s gonna do the land reclamation? You? Even so, it would be take super long for the land to settle and be rock solid before foundation works can be done. And even so, prices of such lands will be too expensive. No thanks. A good example to find out more on will be land recalamtion projects in Singapore.

      Reply
        Skyview says 11 years ago

        Oh sorry, if you dont get the gist im talking about, i was merely saying maybe you OPEN UP YOUR MIND to listen to their presentation and find out more on their business models and then you do your own homework to verify other details they presented and then only decided if its workable or if its a scam. Thank you.

        Reply
          AG says 11 years ago

          Yes, i was there to listen. Infact i went to many of these schemes with intention to learn some skills from them beside scouting for investment opportunit. To sum it all, I would say landbanking with UK greenbelt/Agri plots are workable scams. What a great business model, you will always be cash rich with repeatable sales, for atleast 7-8 yrs before you need to operate with a new company name. From JSI into JWI later maybe ?

          Reply
            lioninvestor says 11 years ago

            Previously, there was another company called Jardine Smith International Pte Ltd.

            http://www.reapfield.com.sg/uk/uk4.pdf

            Not too sure whether it’s the same people running the company but the logos are very similar.

            Reply
              AG says 11 years ago

              Few other pointers to wary abt landbanking investment :

              1 In between the presentation, the manager will approach the sales rep with messages like :

              “the datin so and so wanted 4 plots, but malaysia allocation left only with two, the balance 2 we try to get them from the remining singapore lots. She just agreed over the phone, just dropby to inform you…”

              “my staff allocation of 2 lots, only 1 lot is taken up by my mom, If ur buyer like to put the down payment today, I still able to reserve it for him with abit more staff discount as compare the current price …., the other client like it too but it is first come fisrt basis..”

              When I attended the second time on the third weekend, the rep said they hv sold 3o lots of malaysia allocation the day before, now left only a few plots…”

              What ? none was left 3 weeks ago can still sell again this week? …………!

              You be the judge !

              Reply
            Skyview says 11 years ago

            Yeah, i mentioned earlier to Mark D’s comment in this thread, about “do pple know wth are greenbelt areas”.

            So if the land offered by some land banking firm is NOT a greenbelt area, would u consider finding out more and see if their business model fits your appetite?

            Reply
              Skyview says 11 years ago

              ok, there’s no “Reply” link to AG’s comment.

              Now that’s an old sch skill from the textbook eh?

              But i know of this company’s land lots get sold out in a short duration (after verification of course) and it seemed that pple want those lots, they are not being hard-sell-ed to clients.

              There must be a reason to this phenomenon right? And we’re talking abt Singaporeans who are snapping up those lots. Not doing any promo here.

              Oh, how about ytd’s papers. Did anyone see the Hawaiian lands up for grabs by Asia Capital Lands (hope i din get the name wrong) ? I saw something like “GURANTEED” 30% for 30mths.

              Hawaii …. Volcanoes? Earthquakes? correct me if im wrong.

              Invest Fair 2009 weekend! I heard the crowd was just there cuz of the Career Fair 2009 next door! Gosh.

              Reply
            Skyview says 11 years ago

            AG:

            Oh, sorry i didnt catch the last part of your post, so you’re saying that these land banking firms are in selfish existence to grow their own cash rather than growing their clients’ cash?

            Why would a successful company change their company name after 7-8 years?

            What does JWI stand for?

            Reply
              AG says 11 years ago

              When Jardine is ok why Jardin? Akin to teacher tell kids that sardin is okay to replace sardine in naming the fish!
              It is not about changing name, it is about land banking companies disappear after a few yrs and operate again with a different name! Past investors will no way to retrieve back their monies like the PONZI schemes.

              To the hard earned moneyโ€™s investors, if you could spare some rm70k for 8yrs, itโ€™s much safer to buy 2 lots of Nestle share and still hv some lose change for a UK holiday ! The dividend payout is 100-200% yearly plus good track records of capital appreciation!

              To those who invested with corrupted monies, corrupt less next time in order to be accepted into heaven later in your late passing. Moreover 700% return in land banking doesnโ€™t promise you and your soul a place in heaven!

              To those diligence investors, do share your thoughts and findings in your blogs. Our country will not be this poor and undeveloped if our brothers and sisters are more knowledgeable and diligence.

              We canโ€™t blame the sales people and their managers worked in landbanking firms, they are just there to earn a living though feeling uneasy ethically. Moreover they wont know how sincere or will their parent company apply the land conversion etc.

              Read Five Myths about Land Banking here:

              http://www.propertyscam.org.uk/htdocs/fivemyths.htm

              JWI is just a name suggested for future use if so required. Like Jardine Smith, itโ€™s not related to Jones Lang Wootton, ha ha ha. Comment above are demoralizing and sarcastic, do add some fun to it readers!

              Reply
              Skyview says 11 years ago

              Oh well, then Profitable Group’s and Edgeworth’s staff got no choice but to swallow your comments.

              They are all 5-6yr old companies. You wanna talk about track record? Why not you name me some land banking companies that have a decent, audited track record AG?? If you don’t know, or you’re answer is NO, then I guess you’re disregarding land banking as one alternative to the array of investment options available.

              So have you done your due diligence on land banking, so much so that you were confident enough to use that website you furnished in your post as some sort of a tool to prove that land banking is, quoting you, “unethical”?

              So how about companies that offer lands in countries other than the UK? Are they “unethical” too? If they are why? And are you able to furnish your reply with “proof”?

              Reply
              Garrick says 10 years ago

              Hi skyview,

              I’ve read all your comments and I admire your positive thinking and agree with you that any form of investments carry risks which are relative and proportional to your % of returns. High risk high returns. That’s the way of the world and how economies of scale work.

              Is there any way that I may speak with you personally via email perhaps? I do have some questions and I am poised to invest. Let me know. Drop me a mail: [email protected]

              Reply
AG says 11 years ago

To the landbank purchasers,

Do ask the companies that sold you the plots of land to frame up the title deeds with a frame load of soil digged from the master title’s land, so as to keep the hopes with some solid sands to enhance the Feng Tsui of the plots you purchased !

trust me. it helps !

Reply
    Skyview says 11 years ago

    At Walton, you will only receive copies of the original title deeds, and the originals are kept with the American or Canadian government.

    Im sure u will need to personally visit the local government to make sure that you have better Feng tsui right?

    Besides, Walton’s land parcels are divided into units of undivided interest. So if you frame one title deed, you will need to frame the rest =)

    Reply
      AG says 11 years ago

      My feng tsui’s gist is that for a hope that development order or land conversion on the the plot u purchased is not dashed! be it plot or many. uou still need to keep the dream of 700% returns in 8 yrs is still on ! ๐Ÿ™‚

      Reply
        kungfu taufu says 10 years ago

        Is in Canada………….. Not UK dude……..

        Reply
Intheknow says 11 years ago

hmm.. seems like paying good money for a PIECE OF A PIECE of land which you may never have seen personally.

is it true that there has NEVER been a successful profitable SALE by a land banking firm? (mentioned by Mark D above)

if so, that’s the BIGGEST RED FLAG!

sounds like something where you put your money in and can never get out at a profit.

are you legally an owner of the piece of a piece of land? does UK law recognise you or is your ownership status as good as the piece of paper you hold in your hands?

i reserve my judgement for now since I must admit i don’t know enough about land banking.

Reply
    Skyview says 11 years ago

    […] is it true that there has NEVER been a successful profitable SALE by a land banking firm? (mentioned by Mark D above) […]

    It is obvious there’s no due diligence involved before the comment was made by Mark D.

    The best example till date amongst all land banking firms, one of Walton’s project at Calgary Alberta, Canada – Northpoint (Residential & Commercial) – now known to the public (http://www.liveatskyview.com/) as Skyview Ranch. Not to mention Walton has been audited by PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP for its past performance for 36 exited projects over 30 plus years in business.

    Btw, Walton will be at the Invest Fair 2009. Do reply for any details.

    And for Kim, if land is “sold” in terms of per 1000 sqft, i cant seem to fathom why you’re so delighted over the discount. BUT, Im happy that opt out since you’re unsure.

    Remember, do your own due diligence for any investments! And yes its true, land banking is not suitable for everyone even though you may have the spare cash.

    Do contact me for any details. Thank you.

    Reply
Havest says 11 years ago

Alot of Good Personal opinion here…

It Might sounds like a scam at times but its Never a scam unless proven.

1. Guilty unless proven Innocent or

2. Innocent unless proven Guilty?

Which judgement call do we prefered?

Its easy for us humans to make a judgement call using the first mentality.

Praise the Lord

Reply
    John says 11 years ago

    It might be too late at the point they are proven guilty – all your investments will be gone by then. Just look at Madoff, he was only sentenced recently but all the investors’ money is gone already !! So be smart and don’t get conned by the tiger in sheep skin !

    Reply
      Havest says 11 years ago

      My investments?

      Since when did i mentioned anything about me investing in anything?

      All I am asking is what kind of judgement call do we prefer ???
      thats all….

      Reply
    Skyview says 11 years ago

    Havest, SG netizens are that judgemental, they tend to “go with the flow” don’t u think so?

    But do bear in mind, such forums are made for additional reading, and following any tips here may make you lose money or lose opportunities.

    Most imptly, do your own due diligence before posting. Ask for help if you need any, and verify info that is provided by pple here on your own to prove its validity.

    There are just pple who like to sit on their cash in milo tins and just let inflation eat the value of their money away and diss ALL investment products in the world, and there are others who sought to make money work for them.

    Reply
AG says 11 years ago

Kim,

To extend the life of scams, they have to be genuined ethical initially. Feel really bad for those sales personnels, they have to be so morally low pretentious to coordinate the scams !

Reply
    Skyview says 11 years ago

    So you’re saying JSI is a scam?

    Or have u been there and done that?

    If you propose, and keep proposing such land banking firms are not trustworthy, can you prove it?

    Post your findings here to benefit diligent readers here thank you.

    Reply
kim says 11 years ago

I attended Jardin Smith Int talk on UK land investment 2 weeks ago, it is the water Orton land at Birmingham , UK. It’s a very interesting talk , and it sound like a good investment, however , that was my first time hearing it , thus I wasn’t prepared to do this investment. The sales rep , Andy, was very ethnical, he told me to put 10% deposit , charged on credit card, so that I can lock in the cheapest promo price , as the 1000 ft of land is RM68k , vs a normal price of RM74k. He got approval to let me think thru and reply to them in 7 days. If I decided not to pursue, there is no question asked, and they’ll refund my deposit. I went back researched, and wasn’t ready to pursue, on the 4th day, I went to their office Menara Kek Seng and signed the refund form. Andy sticked to his words, no question asked, and all done within short time. 9 days later , I received my 10% refund on my credit card.

For this good ethical business conduct , I respect JSI.

Reply
    david Neath says 11 years ago

    Kim
    I own a fair chunk of the land in water orton, birmingham, uk. So am interested in any information U can give me regarding the advertised purchase of any land offered for sale in and around water orton.
    regards david

    Reply
    Tony Lim says 11 years ago

    Same, I got my refund. Am surprised as they could make it non-refundable or at least charge some kind of admin fee

    Reply
Fel says 11 years ago

the saleslady called me to invite me to the buffet lunch cum land exhibition at oneWorld by Jardin Smith. i have been asking the coordinator what is the agenda/ seminar but the coordinator keep saying that it was a leisure lunch from 11-6pm.

when i arrived, there is not much food left and we only realised that we need to listen to the presentation and plan for 1 hour.

no matter how good the plan is pointness.. i think it should be honest up front rather than con people to the event. how people could have trust to the company like that

Reply
    lioninvestor says 11 years ago

    Hi Fel,

    The fault (of not revealing the agenda) could lie with either the coordinator or the company.

    Reply
    Skyview says 11 years ago

    Pretty long for lunch dont you think? You have to understand the fear of rejection of sales pple. The gist of it is to really get you pple down to listen to their talk. Looking at it from an open-minded point of view, its all educational. And its true according to most of the pple who have posted before you.

    You dont have to invest with JSI, Walton, Edgeworth, or PP. But i feel its ok to listen on their business model, track record (so far only Walton has it), locations, reasons for selecting such locations and more. Its interesting for pple who are unaware of such alternative investment products, and its definitely impt for pple who are considering to invest with land banking firms.

    Reply
    Sweetyexpat says 10 years ago

    hi fel,,

    Just wondering if you are unsure of the seminar or lunch, why do you come to the seminar in the first place??! pretty funny i guess.

    then, i guess foods are an issue to you… dats sad…

    do you still get the vouchers and spend it? like i did?! i guess you must have!!

    Reply
Look Look says 11 years ago

Hi All,

yup last weekend i also went jsi too. they really can talk u ino buying the land but too bad it’s not like RM5k butRM70k. so i just took my free give & went off but i did introduce to the manager a friend. my friend then decided to buy 2 plots & makes me feel guilty cos i did not know whether jsi is a scam anot? cos i heard from my uncle it should be a investing scam. i tot of just ask my friend go listen enjoy the food & take the free give only. But he bought 2 plot & makes me really worried it’s a scam so i do i find out fast?jardin smith inernatinal is real. i try loging in jsi.com.uk no suck website only jsi.com.sg.

since is a UK land the y no website atuk?

Reply
    pandanmewah says 11 years ago

    do you think partner with CIMB and also JSI will donate 10% of the purchased lot to MERCY can be landscam?
    i was invited by the name of CHARITY from so called daughter of Pahang royal family. so i went there for sake of charity with family hoping to meet her but the place was full of man and women in black suit. from start until the end we have to listen to their presentation.

    Reply
    rine says 10 years ago

    sorie to say tis it nt locate in uk website cos JSI company based in spore n registered under Singapore Business Federation. Only their expert tt they hired is based in UK tt hav more than 20 yrs of experienced on the land and wrk together with the UK goverment. That is y JSI employed the expert to look after their land in UK instead of doing it by themselves tt stil dun hav ani track records like walton do..and walton purchase the land without any plan wat to do with the land as JSI they hav a plan for residential development as nw in Uk theres a population expand n demand of outstripping supply..one tink abt JSi they dun do ani hard selling n i really like the concept for those investors out there if u hav tt some affordable $ not to worried u can invest with JSI as i heard nw JSI nt oni wif land banking they hav a few investment like property & forest tree…cheers

    Reply
Mark D says 11 years ago

Some things you should know before buying land plots:
There is no documented case of any plot sold by a land banking company ever receiving planning permission.

The prevailing opinion among developers and builders is that they would not buy a site comprising many plots with many owners, particularly where many of those owners are foreign nationals, resident overseas. It is logistically too complex an undertaking.

Most land investment, like many similar forms of investment, is unregulated in this country. There’s no independent oversight of standards. However some land banking companies have been closed down by the Financial Services Authority and the Department of Trade and Industry because they were found to have been operating illegal collective investment schemes.

As a result, most land bankers now explicitly state in their literature that they do not operate collective investment. These statements have yet to be tested legally and are probably open to challenge as the selling tactics of the land banking companies have not changed.

Many land bankers have operated investment schemes before without conspicuous success for any of their investors. These have involved things like ostrich farming and vintage port to name but two. Some people have been prosecuted as a result of these earlier schemes and barred from being company directors.

The non-refundable deposit you may be asked to pay could be more than the value of the plot in its current condition

Read what the British Government has to say about that!

If you pay such a deposit on any rural plot, you have no right to a refund. While certain types of transaction are now protected by a statutory 28 day cooling off period, transactions involving sale of land are explicitly excluded from these provisions (distance selling regulations).

It is official government policy to give priority to re-using previously-developed land within urban areas, bringing empty homes back into use and converting existing buildings, in preference to the development of greenfield sites (ref Planning Policy Guidance Note 3 โ€“ Housing). While it is clear that some green belt land will have to be released in the future to cater for increased housing demand, there is simply no guarantee that your plot will fall into this category.

Planning permission is in any case highly unlikely to be granted piecemeal, to individual plots and applications will need to be coordinated for all plots within any one location. What guarantee do you have that the company which sold you the plot will still be there in 15-20 years’ time to coordinate a planning application for a whole site comprising many plots the owners of at least some of which may not even be traceable?

As a land owner, you have certain duties to maintain it. Under existing legislation, local authorities can take steps to have land which has become neglected restored. According to guidance issued by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister in April 2004, these steps could in some circumstances include compulsory purchase of the land.

If you are unable to maintain your plot, you may lose it!

http://www.propertyscam.org.uk/htdocs/purchasers.htm

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    Skyview says 11 years ago

    True, land banking is not required to be regulated by MAS, but do u think it stops there? Did you find out which other government, local and foreign, agencies are actually regulating them instead?

    The Greenbelt issue is something ongoing, and trust me a lot of pple who have invested with JSI and PP have no idea what a Greenbelt area is, and if they had known, im sure they would have reconsider their investments.

    ANY amount that you’re asked to pay upfront or later will definitely worth more than the land, or the unit of land that you’re investing in. The land banking firm needs to profit too right? If they do not profit from any of the projects, how do you think they will have the holding power for existing projects and capital for new land research and acquisitions? Besides, since most companies talk about multiplying your capital, don’t you think investing more money will reap you even greater returns? But somewhere in this thread that mentioned 4 times the amount of money in 4 years? thats crazy! I will ask my mother to forget about waiting for en-bloc and sell her flat at Tiong Bharu, while she can stay with me or my sister, and upon project exit after 4 years she’ll be getting back at least 2 mil (excluding tax deduction), take the money to buy a Audi R8, and buy another HDB flat, and take part of the remainder to continue investing! Remember, its freakin 4 times at the end of 4 years! OMG! Even Walton’s audited track record only shows somewhat 2 times the capital in about 5 years.

    Well, when we talk about planning for an area, what will be the planning for, why this location, and why the need to plan? Such questions need to be asked if anybody were to invest with land banking firms, as the level of transparency can be detected and such info can be verified with governmental portal sites or backed with 3rd party sites like IMF and CIA’s World Factbook, ie cant fake it.

    An example: Walton doesnt plan for individual plots, but the whole area comprising of many subplots. The Skyview Ranch (http://www.liveatskyview.com/) now used to be Walton’s project named Northpoint, and it consisted of commercial and residential phases. Since then Walton tapped into Texas, Georgia and Arizona, and many existing projects are located around exited ones. In fact many can see that how Walton’s land parcels are being strategically located along growth corridors. And how Walton acquires lands and adds value to them by planning townscapes and infrastructures creation of metroplexes with existing projects is really no rocket science.

    I’m just using an example to justify this investment vehicle called land banking shouldn’t be totally called a scam. And not all land banking companies are targeting lands in greenbelt areas of what ever countries.

    Reply
Ven says 11 years ago

Hi i am a passerby and i happened to see this comment. so forgive me for saying but i think it happens to any company that might go bust too. you’ll still be stuck with something you don’t know what to do with.

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KS says 11 years ago

How to get Jardin Smith International is genuie business?

What happens if the company go burst?

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    lioninvestor says 11 years ago

    KS,

    If Jardin goes bust, you will be stuck with a piece of land that you don’t know what to do with.

    Reply
KS says 11 years ago

How do we check whether Jarding Smith International is not a scam?

What happens if they go burst?

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Chas says 12 years ago

Some Land Banking links including 3 from UK Government on Land Banking. None of these are Property Scam sites. Some are higly reputable newspaper sites. Always independently check the company and land you are dealing with. Be educated on your investments.

UK Consumer Protection Group
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/watch_out/scams/landbanking/

FSA
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/Statements/2007/land_banking.shtml

UK Government News
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/fullDetail.asp?ReleaseID=295797&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=True

UK Guardian – Top 10 Scams.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/aug/23/scamsandfraud.consumeraffairs1

UK Times – 10 worst property investments ever.
http://timesbusiness.typepad.com/money_weblog/2008/06/post.html

UK Observer.
http://www.moneyobserver.com/content/sod%E2%80%99s-law-comes-little-too-late

Real people losing money.
http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s/2035797_finch_land_investment_casualties_stack_up

Even Singapores own Mr Tan Kin Lian.
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/search?q=land+banking

And a quote on the use of Government quotes.

http://www.cpre.org.uk/filegrab/2the-great-landbanking-carve-up.pdf?ref=2672

“A common feature of nearly all landbanking company websites is an array of quotes from media news stories and the Government, stating that there is a shortage of housing, that household numbers are growing fast, and that more greenfield land will be used for housing in the future. Well known โ€“ or once well known โ€“ television personalities have been used to talk up the benefits of landbanking”

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Chas says 12 years ago

“The staff also showed me some of the plans the UK govt has for the land that i am purchasing. It is reasonable, feasible and profitable to invest.” “Info fr them are all fr UK govt sources too”

Please post your sources or we will suspect you work for Jardine Smith. Do you ? Question. If the Land was zoned for building why would they sell it to you in small plots in Singapore ? With the exception of occasional compulsory purchase for roads etc the process by which land gets approved for building use by the UK Government is called planning permission. Land zoned as green belt or agricultural is very cheap because it rarely gets permission.

You can easily check with the local council in the UK on the status of Land and any prospective purchaser should do that before signing anything. If you would care to post details on the land plot you say you purchased I’d be happy to try and check it out for you from the UK and provide the relevant UK council to contact.

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    Greg says 11 years ago

    Yes,I was convience by JSI workshop and have already paid my 10%deposit last Sunday.This was done in Kuala Lumpir.After searching and reading about so many other reputable and long running company like Walton and UKLand Invesment, that has been marked as scam I became cautious.What trouble me is they want me to make full payment upon 7days of signing the purchase agreement. Makes me think that they are afraid I have too much time to do my homework and change my mind.

    How do I get to know the status of the land in such a short time from the local council in UK.Pls tell me how you can help to check fr the the relevant council.The location is at Water Orton,on the outskirts of Birmingham,also next to M6 motorway,Attleborough Ln and Plank Ln.

    Reply
      Chas says 11 years ago

      I am not investment advisor but it seems sensible to get your deposit back and do your research first.

      To email or call the local planning authority for Water Orton, Birmingham that would be here

      http://www.northwarks.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents.php?categoryID=372

      To find out who owns the land and how much was paid for the original total area the method to do that is explained here.

      http://www.landreg.gov.uk/kb/Default.asp?ToDo=view&questId=8&catId=2

      These are UK government departments so they may take a few days to reply. You might be wise to call them first.

      Reply
      kim says 11 years ago

      Hi greg, have you got the reseach on JSI and water orton land ?
      I am interested to find out more too, thanks …

      Reply
        Kok says 11 years ago

        Hi Greg , I have also paid 10% for Water Orton project from Jardin Smith. Not sure whether to pay remaining 90% by tomorrow. Have you found and anything ?

        Reply
          lioninvestor says 11 years ago

          Hi Kok,

          Read the comments by Arthur way below.

          Reply
            Greg says 11 years ago

            Sorry for replying late,have been away for a while.I have got my 10%back fr JSI on the 6th day,went straight to their office.Off course they tried to convience me to take another 7days and promised me if I still decide to call it off,they would give full refund.Instead of getting out of the office by 30mins,they actually took an hour or so,trying to find out if it’s the various website I read that made me pull out.They defended that all the coments posted locally or in the UK is unfair.

            I didn’t have much time getting reply from UKland office,but after going into their website you’ll find a few link on letter posted by others asking about certain other land in UK whom have boarded into land banking.After reading,all the coments by the office in UK itself make sense more than what the company that sells the land say,morever all the website they gave sounds very vague and to their advantage,not conviencing enough.Tried talking to few people in the legal field,their advise is;you probably would guess their respond after the history of what happened to other long running similar company.

            The funniest thing was the sale person that look so sweet and professional sundenly turn so sour and ‘black face’ ,saying the whole thing of coming into the office would cause her to lose her job cause she follow up so closely and I don’t sound like I wanted to pull out.She was so sweet in all her previous phone conversation that she offer to get me gifts as a token of her appreciation. She must have gotten big fat commision.The acting was real funny. I told her if your client is given full confident that they could have their money refunded,then your boss is really very unprofessional to do that to you, I asked if I could explain to her boss that it’s not her fault,she declined off course.I did not flare out and put on a good demeanour.

            What really anger me more is when she was filling in the form for the refund,she kept swearing 4 letter words to herself in front of me.I did not lose my temper but I murmured out that it’s kind of difficult for me now to reconsider my decision again.That was really an ugly sight that I tolerated till I make sure I got my money back.I don’t think they will ever admit that their sale person could behave so badly,I just regreted I didn’t record it and upload into u-tube.not that I want to bad mouth them but this is my true experience.However i gave credit to the superior of the saleperson,he remain professional throughout.

            Perhaps you don’t have to go thru the same episode as I did as you may not have got the same sale person as me.

            Reply
              Kok says 11 years ago

              I did went to get my refund. On my first attempt at their office , they asked me to go back and think over it. The next day , the sales person told me that i can just fax over the form. I did that but have not checked my credit card to see if it was refunded. Not sure whether i did the right thing , but at least i dont have to keep in suspense for 8 years not knowing whether the deal is genuine …

              Reply
              Tony Lim says 11 years ago

              If it is a scam, why is it so easy to get a refund. Luckily it did not state in the option form that deposit paid is not refundable

              Reply
              clarence says 10 years ago

              hi greg, able to advise how you manage to get back your deposit?
              is it stated in when u paid for the 10%?

              Reply
          AG says 11 years ago

          Kok, better be safe than SORRY, ASK for the refund !

          Landbanking is just a workable SCAM. Esp. from those companies reg. in tax haven country!

          Put your money in Nestle far much better.

          Reply
Sophie says 12 years ago

I totally agree w what Marie said. I attended their workshop before and was very impressed w their level of professionalism. As a careful investor, i posed all kinds of worst case scenario qns to them. They did NOT at all dodged any of my qns and in fact was v upfront w me and shared step by step hw the risks are being mitigated. Info fr them are all fr UK govt sources too.

I guess any savvy investor would noe that in any form of investment there’re bound to be risk and its unavoidable. That’s why its impt to noe hw the risk is being mitigated (for instance studying the location of the land carefully and noe what are the govt plans involved).

I ran thru the property scam website and had laugh at it. Its so amateurish and a lot of the comments are biased and unfounded. In fact i trust info fr the govt when it comes to land invstmt ..period.

So for any potential land investor out there.. do your homework. study the location, noe its potential, noe what u are in for. ๐Ÿ™‚

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Aaron says 12 years ago

Hi,

I recently attended a hotel exhibition by Jardin Smith in Singapore. The whole investment sounds like a good deal to me. But of course, before parting with my money, i did my due diligence and
found out that FSA only regulates companies that are operating in UK. very much like our MAS. I read in our local press that companies like Jardin Smith are not required to be regulated by MAS in Singapore. I checked on the title deed on the UK Government website and ownership is 100% authentic. I suggest you do your checks

And oh, if you’re a true investor, i wouldn’t suggest that you count on propertyscam.org.uk to assist you in your decision making. Very few unbiased and objective comments i found there. Realised that most of the comments there are speculations and without concrete backings. Better check it with the company yourself. Good luck.

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    Marie says 12 years ago

    Hi,

    Recently, I was asked to attend one of Jardin Smith’s seminar. At first after reading all the comments from the various posts a few weeks back, i was a little hesitant. But i decided to keep an open mind when i went. After hearing the presentations by the staff, i feel that some of the comments are very unjustified and prejudiced against JSI.

    I would suggest that if you are really interested in investments, you should do your homework and not just limit your mind to the negative comments that are posted on the websites. And unlike what Johnny said, they arent that hard selling. My experience was quite pleasant, in fact, i was impressed with their excellence.

    After doing some other relevant checks for myself, i decided to buy a small plot from them. The staff also showed me some of the plans the UK govt has for the land that i am purchasing. It is reasonable, feasible and profitable to invest.

    However, land investments, like any other investments, require you to do your checks and homework! So before u have the herd mentality and criticize with others, it would be highly beneficial to yourself to check the accurate details from authorized websites. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Reply
      Tony Lim says 11 years ago

      I recently paid a deposit of $2,900 but JSI was nice and without obligation returned it to me within a month after I decided to cancel the order. My reason is that of 6 years’ period is too long. The other reason is the numberous unfavorable report. I tends to believe it is an honest dealing but it all depends on your risk appetite – higer risk with higher return. I may regret later but at least it gives me a peace of mind for the moment. But if you really have that idle money, why not give it a try?

      Reply
        BP says 11 years ago

        so are you looking for an investment that is shorter term as well as a hard asset?

        give me a call at 94513549

        Reply
        clarence says 10 years ago

        hi tony,

        can check with you how do u manage to get your refund after u paid your deposit?
        i read through the T&C but no indications on refund..=(

        Reply
Toni says 12 years ago

Hi,
check with http://www.fsa.gov.uk
don’t know much about Jardine Smith International Best to check with http://www.fsa.gov.uk

Reply
    Sweetyexpat says 10 years ago

    Hi

    I’ve eventually read all of ya comments.

    Heres ma advise,Everyone can write up anything in this forum but again it’s not for everyone to invest in land. YES, you have to do your homework before investing, not only through land investment, even ANYTHING, banks,stocks,shares,i mean everything.

    In land investment in general, has been in for decades, land is usually in for pple who are looking for mid-long term investment.

    The companies who you invested in must be genuine in what they say and must not be hard selling. The most important is trust and ask YOURSELF if the RISKs and the affordability is something which suits your appetite portfolio. if it does, why not try land investment. its a form of diversifying your investment.

    Free food,free seminar,free vouchers is common in all companies. Is just how they market their products. If you have a better marketing strategy, why not suggest to them then.

    Jardin Smith is just another company which sells small plots of land to singaporean and internationally. BUT Can say, I’m impressed on how the salesperson introduced their investment and strategy to me. They are very professional and straight to the point with me as im like that. They explain clearly on what kind of risk you are involving.5-20yrs of waiting period for the land to get rezone,is quite fair to me.Is all base on the LOCATION that you choose to purchase.You can eventually purchase land all most anywhere in the world generally but LOCATION is very important. Do see the location where’s the land before purchasing ya!

    I suggest that investors out there,if you want something which is mid-long term investment portfolio, do try for Land investment as its quite low risk. Land is unique as the longer you wait the higher its valued. Even if Singaporean can buy land in Singapore, i think alot will buy too,is just that singaporean believes in singapore country right?! I think is just How you see the investment scheme, if it works for you. Try IT! If it dont, forget it!

    Eg: Most ppl will like chocolates, but some choose white and some might choose dark chocolates!! cheers! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Reply
Johnny says 12 years ago

The company sales pitches are sometime verging on the edge of hard selling as told to me by a friends who went to their seminars. And they actually quoted profits as high as 4 times the initial investment at the end of 4 yrs which is pretty ridiculous.

And this is a very young and inexperienced company compared to ones such as walton.

Reply
    Sophie says 12 years ago

    Hi Johnny,

    For your info, in case your friends didnt gv u the full pic.. the 4 times returns are residential land valuation fr the UK govt. Not figs cooked up by JSI.

    Reply
      Skyview says 11 years ago

      Hi Sophie,

      So does that mean the UK govt assured those figures? Or are you going to argue that its UP TO and not FOR SURE?

      Do you even know what improverishment issues is UK facing right now? And are you still pointing fingers to the UK govt that “they say one, 4 times the capital”?

      The issue of poor pple not being able to afford houses and lesser demand for land and other things that are tagged to land use is obvious.

      Reply
        Expat37 says 10 years ago

        Listen, the truth of the matter is simple. The companies that own these plots and sell them on all make a huge amount of income. The stats quoted by the UK gov’t are as you quite rightly said, for residential land. The land being sold is not residential, and I was also lured into this many years ago in HK. The company make alot of false promises, and have no control over the re-zone of the land sold. Its simply a lottery, and if you have too much money sitting around, then why not give it a punt, but for true investors, please beware and know what it is that you are getting involved in before you buy. I note some comments about the free food etc. Well, there is an old saying that applies, and that is simply there is no such as a free lunch. Buyer beware, due diligence is a must!!

        Reply
dorai says 12 years ago

Hi Lara,

Have you done due diligence before parting with your money?
go to http://www.propertyscam.org.uk
Happy researching!

Reply
lioninvestor says 12 years ago

Hi Lara,

Thank you for your clarification.

CPF monies cannot be used for this kind of investments as they are not regulated by MAS.

The capital is also never protected.

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lara says 12 years ago

i went to their workshops once at this plaza on scotts, even tho it wasnt for me, i referred some of my richer friends but in the end also got side tracked to buy too. lol i’m pretty happy about it and so are my friends, cos rates are higher than leaving it in your bank or cpf account and plus you wont lose your capital cos land appreciates every year. you’re wrong when you say 5 to 10 years then they can sell only when 60% agreed. its actually 5 to 7 years with planning permission then they sell. the 10 to 15 years part only comes in when they dont get planning approval. and calling it a scam just cos you’re sour cos you didnt get your fill of free food and vouchers is just so rude. but then again this isnt for everyone. if its your life savings you are thinking of investing then better not, but if you wanna make good money and have a little to spare then i think jardin is good. profitable plots is just too dodgy for me.

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Tim says 12 years ago

Dear All,
before you invest in Land banking go to http://www.propertyscam.org.uk

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Bonked says 12 years ago

Yep with timeshare you get to use what you’ve bought. With plot investments you just wait.

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lioninvestor says 13 years ago

Hi Bonk,

I don’t think they are anything near timeshare.

It’s a different kind of product altogether.

Reply
bonk says 13 years ago

another timeshare related scam……….
read recruit section of straits time and funny thing is they don’t need any qualifications or experience for sales……

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Investing in UK Land | Den of The Lion Investor says 13 years ago

[…] mentioned in my previous post on Jardin Smith International Singapore that I will be elaborating more on UK land banking (or strategic land investment). Other than […]

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