Martin Lee @ Sg
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Pinnacle Notes 3 Redemption Value

Based on the letter from Morgan Stanley about a week ago, each Pinnacle Notes Series 3 investor will get back US$152.51 and US99.23 (to be converted to SGD) for tranche A and B respectively.

This redemption value is based on a capital of US$5000 and S$5000 for tranche A and B respectively. This works out to be about 3% of the original investment amount. Unfortunately, for those who did not know about the exact nature of the Pinnacle Notes, they will be in for a nasty surprise.

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117 comments
Tan Chor Him says 7 years ago

I would like to join force with u.

Reply
steven lim says 7 years ago

i will like to start a group action again Hong Leong Finance. please email :-

[email protected].

i will get a good lawyer to fight again HLF. I will start action with 3 or more.

Thank You.

Reply
    Martin Lee says 7 years ago

    Steven,

    There might be some hope for you. The class action suit will be held in New York.

    http://www.cpf.gov.sg/imsavvy/infohub_article.asp?readid={52233954-10493-8586542009}

    If it succeeds, all affected investors will be compensated.

    Reply
steven lim says 8 years ago

if you are lehman brother victim and case still pending. call my hp 96700398 or email me.
We can get together and set up a group to talk to the bank.

Reply
HL Victim says 8 years ago

Hi Lilly, Hi Sureesh,

I am in the same boat as you all. Do you have some update from Fidrec or HLF. Your early reply is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Reply
sureesh says 8 years ago

Hi JL

It is [email protected]

Reply
JL says 8 years ago

Have both. Do u have any valid email to contact so we can share our personal grievances ?

Reply
sureesh says 8 years ago

Hi JL

How much did you invest in minibomb and what percentage you got back. Did you invest in PN too

Reply
JL says 8 years ago

Sureesh,
Mine was for Minibomb … now yet to go for Pinnacles … sigh ! My award for MB was quite satisfactory. So far I have yet to hear any result for anyone to get back for PN.
Lilly,
There’s no such limit cap to 30%. Some officers just used this to threaten pple to accept low offer by the FIs. Ultimately, it depends on the judge who take yr case.

Reply
    Lilly says 8 years ago

    Hi, JL

    Have you heard which adjudicator is not supportive to Investor and favor bank? Is it better for Adjudicator to be lawyer or judge? or just try the luck?

    Thanks

    Reply
sureesh says 8 years ago

Hi JL

So finally what percentage compensation did fidrec give you. Or is this confidential

Reply
sureesh says 8 years ago

Lilly

Did Fidrec really tell you that the most you can get is 30%.
Did you buy from a bank or securities company.
Did you approach them or they approach you. What is your profile like.

Reply
    Lilly says 8 years ago

    Hi, sureesh

    30% is what the Officer from Fidrec told me. I bought from HLF. and they approach me when I walk in. My profile is moderate conservative.

    I reject the offer and now wait for the adjudication. Actually I feel that whether you can get good offer depend on the adjudicator favour which side. If he or she favour FI, then you have no much hope. But I still want to try.

    How about you? Bought from bank?

    Reply
JL says 8 years ago

Sureesh,

This happened to most of us. For my case, I also signed on the last page and the rest filled up by the RM after I left. The fact that they only told us the few reference entities listed on the brochures are already misled. Many of us are English educated, they cannot use this as a weapon as their procedures of handling is wrong; i.e : rate us without our notice.
The hearing is only one time. Usually you need to submit 2nd rebuttal then a date wil be fixed with few weeks, depending how efficient the officer handle your case follow up.

Reply
sureesh says 8 years ago

Hi JL

Thanks for your reply.

In my case the FI claims that I am english educated and not in the vulnerable group. The FI’s RM met me and sold me the PN6 during my lunch hour at my work place. The whole thing took about 20 minutes. Morever they claim that I had indicated on their wealth map that I do not want any financial planning advice. Actually I did no such thing. Anyway the wealth map is signed by me on the last page and not signed on every page and I was not given a copy. They claimed they mailed me a copy. In my case it was me who called the FI to inquire about the PN6 after I saw the advert in the newspaper. I am afraid the FI will use this against me.

Anyway does anyone know what is the average compensation ordered by fidrec. Do you have to come back a second time to listen to the judgment. After submitting your complaint to fidrec how soon will the adjudication take place, 1 month later or 2 months later. I suppose they have a lot of cases to clear

Reply
JL says 8 years ago

Sureesh,

If u have a case of being misled by the FI, 20% is too less an offer to accept. Usually they will bargain like in a fish mkt.
Adjudication is abt 2 hours, depending on how complex is yr case. All cases seem to be quite similiar to the adjudicators, they should have in mind what to offer before the hearing, just that we have to go thru’ the motion.
U get to present yr case 1st, follow by the FI, then the “witness” who sold u the product. Prepare for questions to ask them till they are not able to answer u.

Good Luck to u !

Reply
sureesh says 8 years ago

Hi

Need advice, I bought 60K worth of PN series 6 which is now bust.
The FI offred me 20% compensation, I asked for 50% minus all payments receievd so far. The FI rejected my request.

Should I go for the fidrec adjudication. I am waiting for a date .
Normally how long does it take for the adjudication.

Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Lilly,

U are right. The whole system is not fair in S’pore and also it depends on who take on your case. Now many cases pending at Fidrec and wonder they try to push for pple to accept low offer by the FIs … why should we ? Good luck to your case !

JL

Reply
Lilly says 9 years ago

Thanks! JL. Yes, I would fight in Fidrec. But I still have no confidence on this system. Hope a good adjudicator will be allocated to my case.

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YK says 9 years ago

Thanks JL. I understand but to me, if the US lawyer action can pull enough people, then there should be enough ppl whom are still interested in fighting for it.

Just want to gather a list and see if we can go local too.

Election is just round the corner and with enough people, who knows what we may get.

Reply
    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Hi YK,

    The reason why the US suit has people joining is because it’s performance based. No need to pay any fees upfront. A group of people has tried to gather people to run their own suits but the take-up wasn’t too good because of the upfront amount required.

    Reply
      YK says 9 years ago

      yes, I realise that but I guess I am just seeing if we can get another shot at it.

      The amount of people whom would have sign up would have been great given the US suit minimum value requirements.

      if there are enough willing to join, maybe we can get a young lawyer who would like to be famous to do this and each pay a low amount.

      Or we can bring it up together at a “good timing” for support from the government or some help groups. Who knows what we can get.

      If you have a list of names, would appreciate if you share.

      Reply
        lioninvestor says 9 years ago

        Hi YK,

        Sorry, but I don’t have any list of names with me. Some other guy was compiling it.

        Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Hi YK,

Most of the pple had already given up hope ….. we only join the class action organised by the US lawyer.

Lily – these are all bullshits by the FIs to cover themselves. Since Minibombs, most have already stressed for 2 years and still no one help us. Fight for yr rights in Fidrec and all the best !

JL

Reply
YK says 9 years ago

hi all, anyone would like to meet up to take action against either Morgan Stanley or OSPL here in singapore?

If so, we can arrange a meet up.

Reply
    Steven lim says 7 years ago

    I will to start a group to sue again Hong Leong Finance. We will get a good lawyer and share the cost. My email address is [email protected]

    Reply
Han says 9 years ago

hi,

HLF has offered a “goodwill” gesture to buy back part of our investment.
The amount offered is 50% x (principle sum – (interest+residual)

In the talks with HLF we (joint acct with my grandma) mentioned that at the time of purchasing the product our concern was capital preservation and were risk averse, and all these were recorded on paper(HLF have a copy too!).
We also mentioned about a newspaper cutting which the advisor showed and gave us, indicating that the government was providing 100% gaurantee.
The advisor also mentioned that PN3 was backed by 7 local banks as could be seen on the brouchure.

When we asked why and how could all the money were lost, the HLF staff merely replied that there were profits made and previous investments did made money. The HLF staff made little comments and occasionally showed some empathy, taking notes most of the time and showed much interest on my educational qualifications.

They claim not to be at fault at all.
HLF tend to see me as educated, and was and should be able to give good advice to my grandma, but the point was my grandma see them as the expert.

We are going to Fidrec and let them decide, it will be good to see their position.

Reply
    Lilly says 9 years ago

    Hi, Han

    May I ask during the time your purchase PN3 and interview, did you discosue the detail of the cash and financial asset in their form. and they take it as the reason that you sholud responsibe for your investment since you didn’t provide above?

    Thank you!

    Reply
      Han says 9 years ago

      Hi Lilly,
      I think they are more interested on my educational background, and those of my family members. Probably wanting to prove we know what we are buying and go there and buy the product on our own will.
      Since I am an “educated” person, then I should know the risks and not let my grandma invest in them, that’s their point of view I think.

      Reply
Choo says 9 years ago

Dear All

Sorry May I know what is Fidrec? I’m a victim too.

Thank you.

Reply
    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Try to negotiate and counter propose whatever is offered to you with the financial institution first before going to Fidrec.

    http://www.fidrec.com.sg/website/index.html

    Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Lily,

Go and fight for your rights ! Fidrec has many cases on hand and just simply want to close as many cases as possile by asking u to accept the low offer.

Reply
gags says 9 years ago

At least there are some media reports on the minibonds. Our media has gone all quiet on the Pinnacle Notes.

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    anothervictim says 9 years ago

    suggest not to expect high hope from Fidrec. I was shock
    and devastated the outcome.
    During adjudication,in his (J Adxxx) opening speech,
    I’ve to correct him the subject is on PN3
    not mini-bond.Next day I immediately request
    to add some comments for his consideration.
    He rejected it. Very sad, years of hard earned
    saving gone.

    Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Hi All Pinnacle Victims,

There’s no help from anyone S’pore Authority at all, really very shameful !

Now a US lawyer is willing to take up the case on a commission basis. Please email to : [email protected] to obtain a copy of the agreeement. We only need to pay the US laywer a certain % commission upon successful law suit. Heard they are proceeding in 2-3 months’ time and it will take few yrs to claim bac our hard earned monies. Please help to spread the news. The stupid 3 steps imposed by MAS is just to stress the victims again and again, but many eventually get back ZERO !

Reply
VICTIM says 9 years ago

Thanks for the info. I will get in touch with them

Reply
VICTIM says 9 years ago

I would like to get a sample letter grom Testwater to write to FIDREC to claim on redemption of pinnacle series 7

Reply
    Testwater says 9 years ago

    Hi Victim,

    Can call FIDREC directly at 63278878 and speak with the officer regarding your case. They will proivide instructions on how to proceed from there. There are some forms to be completed.

    Check out their website: http://www.fidrec.com.sg

    Good luck!

    Reply
    testwater says 9 years ago

    Hi Victim,

    I have received some docs and Q&A from tkla.km regarding the US lawyer’s representation. I can forward them to you for reference. Can provide your email if keen.

    Reply
YK says 9 years ago

Bought from OCBC Securities….sigh….

anyone wants a mass grp action here in SG?

Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Hi YK,

Just curious which FI you bought from ? Many awarded zero were from securities firm.

Reply
YK says 9 years ago

Thanks. so i just send an email to the gmail account shown there rt?

Anyone locally trying to take any legal action or can provide advice on how to do it with minimal cost since we are already at a lost situation.

Reply
    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    That law firm does it at 0 upfront costs. They get paid only if they succeed but they can only proceed if they have a critical mass of interested parties.

    Reply
YK says 9 years ago

Hi all,
I have bought Pinnacle S7 and have similarly went through all the process with the final adjucdication result awarding me nothing even though they have initially offered me 10%.

I am at a loss of what to do and would seek any help available.

can someone provide an email of the US law firm to contact or is there someone coordinating in SG?

Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Testwater,

Please provide a valid email address and I forward the form to you.

Reply
    testwater says 9 years ago

    Hi JL,
    Please email me at [email protected].

    many thanks.

    Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Testwater,

Did u fill up a form anf whom u sent to? Heard they need to obtain certain amt of claims b4 proceeding.

Reply
JL says 9 years ago

Hi All,

Urge all of u to join in the class action organised by US law firm, Kirby McInerney. Only need to pay them a com if we win the case. Regardless whether your case is with Fidrec or not, u can still join them to claim against Morgan Stanley. Please spread the news around to other victims.

Reply
    Testwater says 9 years ago

    Hi JL,

    I did email to the US law firm based on the email address in lioninvestor’s link but no reply from them leh..

    Reply
Han says 9 years ago

Hi JL and lioninvestor,
Thank you both, now I find it easier and better prepared to proceed from here.

Reply
    ca says 9 years ago

    Hi Han,
    may i know how is your case progress?

    Mine is PN6 from HLF. Ours case is very similar. Mine is joint account with my mum.

    I have called HLF and now waiting for them to get back to me for interview.

    Reply
      Han says 9 years ago

      Hi ca,
      I had gone for the interview with my grandma some 3 weeks ago.
      HLF said they may “buy back” part of our investment, pending on their senior managements decision. I am now waiting for their reply.

      Reply
        Louis says 9 years ago

        Hi, Han AND TestWater,
        My wife is one of the victim of the PN7 and she officially received lettrer fr FT that Force Redemption had occured.
        She is 62, housewife all along,had loss almost all her 500K life saving in this case. AS she is about to talk to FI And FIDREC and claim back some coffin money,would like to get some experience and advise on urgent basic, Thanks.

        Reply
          testwater says 9 years ago

          Hi Louis,

          My experience was with Hong Leong on PN3. Not sure about other FIs and PN series, but guess should lodge a complaint with the FI and see how it goes from there.

          Understand FIDREC only handles cases up to max $50K, so your case is beyound them, but still can contact them (63278878) to find out what other avenues are available.

          All the best

          Reply
            Lilly says 9 years ago

            Hi, testwater

            Thanks for sharing your experience here.

            Just want to ask your opion, my case is the same as you, with Hong Leong on PN3, also “moderately conservative” rating. Now under Fidrec mediation stage, HLF offer me 25% including interest (Starting offer 20%). Now Fidrec inform me this is the final offer. Do you think I should accept it or go for Adjudication?

            Thanks for your reply!

            Reply
        CA says 9 years ago

        Hi Han,
        Thanks for the reply.

        An interview is arranged. HLF said if any decisions need to be made, my mum has to be present as this is a joint acct.

        Problem is I dont want my mum to know abt this as she has high blood pressure and diabetes. I wont want to risk her health to go through rounds of interviews to get back a small fraction of compensation…

        If no choice I may forgo the compensation and fork out my own saving to cover her loss. But I will still go for the interviews myself to voice out my anger.

        Reply
          JL says 9 years ago

          CA,

          I am in the same boat as u, using my old age mother’s fund to put in all these toxic “Bonds”. Worst of all. were told not able to joint names, so now fighting the war alone, while compensate my mum’s out of pocket 1st.
          Fight on for our Rights with Fidrec, if HLF did not offer you a good compensation that they called “goodwill” offer !

          JL

          Reply
Han says 9 years ago

I have approached FIDRec, they want me to lodge a complain to HLF, before they can take action. Though I can not say I am illiterate, but I am not familiar with all this investment products. I accompany my grandma there just to put some of her money in fixed deposits. But decided to invest in the notes as we believed that the interest was higher and the risk of losing the principle sum was impossible according to HLF’s advice. Now we lost almost 97%. My grandma’s intention is have me as the co-owner so if she were to pass away, I can have her money. Now I regretted this very much and felt sorry to her. As the money was hers, we put capital preservation as top priority in their interview, before deciding to invest.
Anyone can advice me on how to write to HLF?
Basically I have no experience with investments and shares, any help is welcomed.

Reply
    JL says 9 years ago

    Han,

    Just write according to what HLF officer has informed you when you actually wanted to place a FD. This stupid 3 steps and painful process were set up by our MAS in order to file a complaint to Fidrec. HLF will reply to you whether they will propose compensation (usually not !). Fidrec will then write to them and from there HLF will definitely come back to propose some payments. As you can see from history, all FIs always start with miserable 10% and we have to negotiate till we are satisfied with our claims. Good luck to u !

    Reply
    Testwater says 9 years ago

    Han,

    I think you may stand a very good chance to recoup 100% of your principal if yours is a joint name account with your grandma (think FIDRec only handles cases of $50K or less?), especially if capital preservation is listed as high and risk profile is “low”.

    I went thru the process with HLF. See my previous posts.

    Good luck!

    Reply
      Han says 9 years ago

      Thank you Testwater, I am not that optimistic though.
      I hope FIDRec is sincere in helping the victims.

      Reply
lioninvestor says 9 years ago

A US law firm, Kirby McInerney, has spoken about possible legal action that can be taken in US Courts in connection with the Pinnacle Notes.

Investors will only need to pay Kirby McInerney if they are successful in their law suit and the fee will be based on a percentage of the money recovered from the financial institution that is being sued.

As I understand, the law suit is not against the distributor of the Pinnacle Notes so those who have already settled on a partial compensation with their distributor would still be able to join.

More information here:

http://www.martinlee.sg/pinnacle-notes-legal-action/

Reply
testwater says 9 years ago

Hi,
FIDReC called to inform HLF now agrees with giving me 50% compensation. Computation is based on [Principal amt – (interest + residual)] * 50%

Have decided to go with the settlement offer and save the additional hassle of going through adjudication. So it is from zero compensation and gradually up to 50% after 5 rounds of negotiation.

Will collect the cheque and close case next week.

My sincere thanks to JL and all for your valuable inputs and advice.

Reply
    JL says 9 years ago

    Hi Testwater,

    Glad to here that ! Sad to know that now FIs treat this nego like they are in a fish market ! Hope the rest of the victims will stay firm and get fair compensation.

    Reply
      Lilly says 9 years ago

      Hi, JL

      Want to ask for your opion.

      I bought PN3 with HLF, I am categorised “Moderately Conservative”. After going interview with HLF, offer me 20%. I file to Fidrec now under Mediation stage, they only will to increase to 25%(includinh interset). Fidrec officer said based on my profile, even go for adjudication that can only get highest is 30% maybe nothing. I really understand the stressful process and maybe hopeless result for adjudication. I also scared to get zero after adjudication.

      So based on your experience, what is your advice to me, to accept or fight for higher compensation?

      Thanks for your reply!

      Reply
JL says 9 years ago

There’s something wrong with the S’pore financial system here! Leaving all victims to fight alone, some even have depression over this saga like myself, but I’m glad I have pulled through. After the Minibond residual values, no one seems to care about the rest anymore …… we must fight on and seek justice ourselves ! (Sad to say, there’s no justice in S’pore. Heard some victims awarded ZERO these few weeks by Fidrec adjudicators)

Reply
JL says 9 years ago

I have not got back a single cent for my Pinnacle S3 that has already gone bust ….. has anyone received the pyt ?

Reply
    Testwater says 9 years ago

    Hi JL,
    Mine is the PN S3 too, bought with HLF. Which FI you got from?

    Reply
      JL says 9 years ago

      Bought from IFA that link to OSPL. Both pushing their liabilities and Fidrec ask to go after both. Now still pending !

      Reply
        Testwater says 9 years ago

        With previous experience on 2 adjudications, how would assess the chances of compensation with this PN S3? Thanks

        Reply
          JL says 9 years ago

          Frankly, after the residual values for Minibomb is out, all things seem to have died down. So far heard only 1 case for PN compensated 30% by Fidrec. Any email address that I can contact you to brief u the adjudication process ?

          Reply
            Testwater says 9 years ago

            hi JL,
            my email is [email protected]… thanx heaps!

            Reply
            MD says 9 years ago

            Hi JL,

            Is your PN S3 deposited in your CDP account or held by IFA/OSPL ?

            If your PN S3 is deposited in your CDP account, it should appear in your CDP statement.

            If I read their letter correctly, seems like SGD 138.99 will be paid to CDP on 27Jan 2010.

            Reply
            testwater says 9 years ago

            Hi JL,
            FIDReC informed me HLF is willing to up compensation to 40% (incl interested collected), but guess i will still go for the adjudication and see how it goes.. Thanks.

            Reply
              lioninvestor says 9 years ago

              testwater,

              I have been following all your posts and it is disappointing to see the FI playing the game of bait and switch. From 0% compensation and slowly moving up the scale as you push harder. Wonder how those people who accept the first offer would have regretted.

              Reply
    testwater says 9 years ago

    Hi JL,

    Will you be trying out the “Pinnacle Notes Legal Action” mentioned by Lioninvestor?

    http://www.martinlee.sg/pinnacle-notes-legal-action/

    Reply
sureesh says 9 years ago

For PN series 6, there is another credit event. From Aiful corporation, This has not resulted in a redumption of the notes yet.
But another company Ambac financial is alo in serious trouble and may go bankrupt. When that happends in this year ot next year, the we will get nothing back. Be prepared for this.

Reply
Testwater says 9 years ago

FIDREC has acted quickly and referred my complaint to HLF. This morning, I received a call from HLF asking if i am willing to settle for 5%-10% compansation and mentioned about the long process of court hearing bla bla bla if i were to pursue the case with FIDReC. Guess trying to dissuade me from persueing the case. Am just thinking why the sudden change of heart by HLF? Guess they are hoping the clients won’t take further action with a small compensation. But 5%-10% is really miserable.

Does anyone has any info on the previous compensation rate offered by the FIs? Any comments will really be helpful and appreciated. I need to revert to HLF in 1 or 2 days. They keep saying it will be difficult to get higher compensation.. i am not sure. Thanks.

Reply
      Testwater says 9 years ago

      Hi Lioninvestor,

      Thanks heaps for the stats. Its very useful.

      Have also spoken to a FIDReC person and she agrees that 5%-10% offered by HLF is pathetic. So have more or less made up my mind not to accept HLF’s offer and continue with claim thru FIDReC. Any recovery amount above 5%-10% will be a bonus. Hope it won’t be less then that 🙂 Thanks again.

      Reply
    grace says 9 years ago

    Hi Testwater,
    It is too low the offer. If you profile is “conservative” or “moderatively conservative”, you have a better case with FIDREC adjustication and can seek a better compensation. I was offered 50% for PN S7 without going through FIDREC adjustication and I regret – I think for those with such rating – they have a better position to get higher compensation.

    Reply
      Testwater says 9 years ago

      Hi Grace,
      Yes, my profile is “moderately conservative”, yet HLF offered zero compensation. That’s why i am trying my luck with FIDReC. If the FI had offered me 50% upfront, i might probably have accepted, w/o having to go thru the long process..

      Reply
      Testwater says 9 years ago

      Hi Grace,
      Wld it be possible to advise which FI you bought the PN S7 from?

      HLF is not so generous, even sneaky i wld say. Initially offer zero compensation in their reply letter. Then when i went to FIDReC, FI called and offered 5%-10%, and now they told FIDReC they are willing to consider 20% (inclusive of previous interest n redemption amt received).

      FIDReC now offering to put up case to FI for me for 25% Compensation. So considering the pros and cons whether to accept offer or continue with adjudication. My profile is “moderately low risk”, but FIDReC says may not have a strong case as i am supposed to be educated and and should have read and understood the prospectus documents and asked all the questions before investing…

      Thanks much..

      Reply
        grace says 9 years ago

        Hi testwater,

        The FI is the same FI you mentioned. I am surprised they offered upfront without going through FIDREC adjundication. I will suggest you go through that since it is only paying $50 and believe you have a higher compensation. You are rated “moderately low risk” and this product is a high-risk product. They can’t deny they are selling to the wrong group of customers.

        Reply
      Louis says 9 years ago

      Hi,Grace, my wife is a victim of the PN 7.She received notice letter fr FI(KE)yesterday officially PN7 have a force redempyion.She(Age 62,HouseWife all along)is really shock with her 500K old age saving is gone. She have not started any claim with the FI or FIdREC yet. As I learn that you have sucessfully claim back 50% from your FI , I would like some advise and experience from you And anyone on this Link who can help me.

      Reply
        grace says 9 years ago

        Hi Louis,

        I made a mistake on the PN series HLF compensate – it is PN S9 (the brochure on the boy with a bear and not S7) and first that go bust.
        The amount I purchased from HLF is only SGD 10K and I suspect that could be the reason they are willing to offer 50% (they lose only 5K) and that compensation was offered last year Jan 2009 and before penalty rendered to HLF by MAS. Now that HLF already been penalised by MAS (damage to their reputation), that may explain why those cases in this year are offered lower. You should consider go to FIDREC (if you are not getting lawyer yourself) and also use the US lawyer that are willing to go after Morgan Stanley for us (check with lion investor who has put a posting on this).

        Reply
Kirby McInerney says 9 years ago

Setting aside the differences between FIs and investors, the KM lawyers platform is an excellent way to recover the millions from Lehman. The immoral profit gain from buying over the Notes at a huge discount during the initial FIDREC adjudication is not enough to cover the millions of Notes loss owned by the FIs.

KM needs numbers & investment amount to pursue Notes’ owners fraud. Last year, it was tough to get victims involvement e.g. 250 for MIAG and after the fee increased, the number went down to 160. Pinnacle is trying to get enough people to sue. Leonard Loo’s 250 seems to have evaporated. DBS HN5 succeeded in getting 200 people. So where are the initial 10,000 people?

To make things worst, a high number of people took back a significant amount through residue value & compensation thus making the effort to start this class action in US tougher.

With no cost upfront, investors and FIs should join hand and help KM succeed in suing Lehman in USA.

Reply
Kirby McInerney says 9 years ago

If the size of the class is large enough, i.e., combined losses of let say in excess of US$50m (this value is decided by the US law firm), then if fraud by the US Securities can be established, then the US Law firm, Kirby McInerney (KM) would charge only success fees to file the law suit in the US courts to recover the losses. This means that you need not pay a single cent to engage KM.

In the event that the law suit in the US is unsuccessful, all the investors and the 3rd party reseller (our local financial institutions) in the class need not have to pay a single cent to KM. KM bears all the risks and costs.

In essence, you can only win by engaging KM because they will only take on cases that fraud can be established. KM with 60 years of experience, can truly claim that they are the oldest law firm in the US for investment loss recovery.

Reply
Kirby McInerney says 9 years ago

Class action in America

Kirby McInerney, the US law firm that is willing to organize a class action to seek compensation in the US on behalf of the investors. They need to have sufficient investors to make the effort viable.

KM needs to have some team leaders (of the investors) to come forward to approach the distributors, e.g., DBS Bank, ABN, Hong Leong Finance, Phillip Securities, UOB, OCBC Securities, CIMB GK, to get them to individually or collectively engage KM to review the cases quickly and if fraud could be substantiated, to file class action litigation cases at the US courts to recover the losses. This would be an ideal outcome.

Timing is of the essence. The faster KM is engaged to file the law suit in the US, the chances of success would be higher. The amount to be recovered would also be higher.

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    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Rather than getting individual investors to come forward, shouldn’t MAS and the FI coordinate this?

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Testwater says 9 years ago

FIDReC’s turnaround time is pretty fast. I received their reply in 3 working days. FIDReC is reviewing my case and have asked Hong Leong Finance for their investigation report. The process is expected to take 3-4 weeks. Will update again when I hear from them.

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Testwater says 9 years ago

I am a victim of the PN3. Lodged a complain in Dec 2009 with Hong Leong Finance which sold me the product and went through 1 hour + of interview by the FI. Just received letter last week saying they have reviewed the case and are NOT compensating in any way!! I still have the risk profile completed by HL at point of purchase 3 years back and my rating was moderately conservative. They deny any mis-selling of the high risk product probably because I am educated and working (not retired or illiterate). I believe HL got the longest ban of 2 years by MAS from selling investment products.

I have submitted the case online to FIDREC and pending their response. Hope at least to get back some justice.

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frakpap says 9 years ago

My mum is a chinese-educated victim above 65 yrs old. She, like many others, were duped into buying PN 6 by the RM with empty promises of “guaranteed” and “stable” when she went to the bank to renew her FD. Her total amount cheated was $100k.
We followed the recommendations given by this website and KL Tan, wrote a letter of complaint of mis-selling, and after a gruelling wait for 1 year, 2 interviews, sleepless nights, the FI only offered my mum 50% compensation. 50% of the PN6 they force us to keep. If we don’t accept their offer out of their so-called “goodwill”, and go to FIDREC or the courts, this offer won’t be open anymore. So basically, they have played a game such that the compensation offered is quite “attractive” but it still makes us feel very pinched and punished for their crimes.

As the FIDREC is only in jurisdiction of amounts $50k and below, I am hoping people (or similar victims) who read this forum can give me some advice.
1. This is retirement money for my mother. She cannot read English, signed the forms without even bringing her reading glasses. I don’t know how strong is her case, but the S.O.B RM told her that this is just like FD with a longer tenure. She was completely and innocently duped into buying this crap.
2. Did FIDREC ever help any of you investors obtain a claim greater than $50k or >50%?
3. Is this FIDREC just some other scam by the frakking PAP to show that they are sort of “upholding” the law, helping the victims, yet in fact it is just another puppet organization who is out to pocket some money from the FIs, protect FIs, waste the small investors’ time, and cheat their hard-earned money?
4. Has any of the class action suits been successful? How much money do we need to spend to engage a lawyer? Estimated costs if we lose?
5. How likely is PN6 going to enter a mandatory redemption? What is the redemption value for the rest of the PN that have gone through a mandatory redemption?
6. What is the rate of compensation for most victims? Did anyone receive compensation > $50k before? Could everyone share?
7. Do you think we should just accept their offer and let the matter close?

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    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Hi frakpap,

    the current indicative pricing for PN6 is 1% of the face value. Depending on the recovery value of the remaining defaults, it can take at least one more default (among the basket of 100+ underlying entities) from now till maturity. If it really hits the threshold, expect to get back 1% or even less.

    I remember reading in one of the comments of someone going to Fidrec and getting slightly more than what he was offered by the FI. Not knowing English seems like a plus point in your favor.

    There’s one similar case to yours in the comments here:

    http://www.martinlee.sg/pinnacle-notes-9-and-10-default/

    You might want to try writing to him.

    You can also repost your comment here and see whether you can get replies:

    http://www.martinlee.sg/pinnacle-notes-default/

    The Pinnacle class action suit seems to have stalled due to lack of numbers.

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    JL says 9 years ago

    I have gone thru’ Fidrec adjudications. Indeed, it is very stressful for all the victims. Besides, drafting and analysing the documents to rebut the FIs, u also have to depend on your luck which judge is taking yr case.
    Heard there is a “Mad” judge there that scolded victims until they gve up! I do not understand what is going on in this S’pore system here, causing all the victims to go throu’ so much stress. So far I have not heard of anyone that awarded more than 50% by Fidrec. Besides, Fidrec only cap up to $50K, so those abv that invested amt have to accept the lower claims. Hope the turn up for the US laywer to fight our case is strong, else, there is no way we could recoup majority of our losses, esp in Pinnacle Notes. Also heard that these fraud notes cannot make it to mature, as it is meant to con us. Thanks to MAS, we need to salute them for approving such products in S’pore and then wash their hands off now!

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      Testwater says 9 years ago

      Hi JL
      Thanks for sharing your experience. Does the 50% compensation include the interest previously received?

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        JL says 9 years ago

        It again depends on the judge. In my 1st adjudication, judge ask to less out the interest. 2nd adjudication agt different FI, I get to keep the int. The FI still has the cheek to ask whether need to less the interest at that point when the award was read out ! Fyi, my 1st adj was very early last yr …. subsequently, heard that the award was more and more generous, perhaps HK side has better compensations than us without the need to go thru’ all these stress !

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          Testwater says 9 years ago

          Luck you 🙂 i need to pray hard for a good judge then. Just don’t understand why they can’t even streamline the decision whether previous interest is to be less out or not.. hopefully by now they have become experts in handling such cases and have some kind of SOP.. haz..

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      Testwater says 9 years ago

      Hi JL,
      You mentioned about drafting and analysing the documents to rebut the FIs, do we get to prepare this in advance or when we go before the judge? Do we get to see the FI’s investigation report at all?

      During the mediation process, FIDReC is now offering to put up case to FI for me for 25% Compensation (inclusive of interest and redemption amt received). So considering the pros and cons whether to accept offer or continue with adjudication. My profile is “moderately low risk”, but FIDReC says may not have a strong case as i am supposed to be educated and and should have read and understood the prospectus documents and asked all the questions before investing…

      Reply
sureesh says 9 years ago

I like to know if there is no mandatory redemption event up to the maturity date in 3 years time , will we get back 100 % of the capital.

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    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Hi sureesh,

    which series are you referring to?

    Reply
      sureesh says 9 years ago

      mine is series 6, I invested 60k, am real worried.

      Reply
php says 9 years ago

what about the other pinnacle notes such as 6 and 7?

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seow lan says 9 years ago

why bother to have the redemption? it’s like rubbing salt on wounds! so pathetic … might as well don’t get! puke.

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sureesh says 9 years ago

I wonder why there is no news on the minibonds, are they dragging their feet. They said it would be liquidated a few months times. I wonder if the MAS is monitoring this and will they exert their authority

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Jasmin says 9 years ago

What about the others such as “minibombs” ? Any news on their redemption or residual values?
Thanks.

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    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Hi Jasmin,

    No news on Minibombs yet….

    Reply
    lioninvestor says 9 years ago

    Hi Jasmin,

    Minibond values are out:

    http://www.martinlee.sg/minibond-payout-values/

    Reply
    steven lim says 7 years ago

    i like to start a group action and get a good lawyer to share the cost to sue hong leong finance.my email is [email protected]

    Reply
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