Jardin Smith International

Last Saturday, I was invited to a exhibition held by Jardin Smith International, a local company that sells UK land to investors in Singapore and other countries. Jardin Smith International holds these kinds of events quite frequently, each time at a different venue. In my case, it was held at Ritz Carlton Hotel. I have not been to Ritz before, so it took me a while to find the place.

Upon arrival, I was greeted by a client relationship manager (or salesperson), whose job was to make me feel comfortable and explain to me the concept of how it all works. So I was treated to some free food and there was the usual idle talk before we got down into business.

Having already been to a presentation by another company that sells UK land, I was familiar with the concept. Here’s how it works:

  1. The company purchases a plot of greenbelt land. This is land that cannot be developed unless it is rezoned (a process known as getting planning permission) by the government.
  2. The land is sub-divided into many smaller plots and sold to investors.
  3. The company retains 25% of the land so that it is also “vested” along with the investors.
  4. The company goes out to apply for planning permission. This process will take many years. As such, this is more of a long term investment. We are told this would take five to ten years at the minimum.
  5. Once planning permission is obtained, the value of the land will rise 5-10 times (from your purchase price) and you can realise your gains when the entire site is sold. In Jardin Smith International’s case, 60% of the owners will have to agree before it can be sold.

The reasons why we should investing in UK land (as told by the company) are as follows:

  • UK has a housing problem and land will only become lesser and lesser.
  • The price of land has been increasing steadily (About 20-fold in the last 15 years).
  • 2012 Summer Olympics will be held in London and this will have positive effect on the property market.

The plot on offer by Jardin was being sold for a cool $30,000. An initial deposit of 10% was required and could be paid by credit card. The balance could be paid by credit card and UOB cardholders could even pay by interest-free 12 months installment plans.

I politely told the client relationship manager that I didn’t have the money at the moment and wasn’t interested. She was quite persistent and even suggested I just pay the deposit first. I wasn’t going to do that since I won’t be able to finance the remaining 90%. She was pretty disappointed and made a last ditch effort to ask me for referrals. Of course I would not refer any of my friends to a company that I had not fully researched on.

Tomorrow, I will write about some of the things you need to be aware of if you are investing in UK land.
See also Dangers of UK Land Banking.

Besides the land investment, there was also a side booth promoting a property City House, Croydon in London. According to the person I spoke to, he was helping some investment fund sell off their units.

1-bedroom units were available for about 215,000 GBP and 2-bedroom units for 250,000 GBP. 12% of the amount would be payable within 28 days, another 13% due at completion (end 2009) and the remaining 75% can be bank financed by Lloyds.

The rental yields are estimated at 5% and if the units are rental out, it would be able to cover the interest payments. It looked interesting to me but being not very inexperienced in this area (other than the fact that I can’t really afford it now), I decided to give it a miss.

Comments

  1. Helen says

    Angela and David,

    As you claim to be investors with JSI yourselves, do you know others who have invested in this as well? When I attended the talk at OU hotel yesterday, the salesperson tried to persuade me by giving examples of many who have invested previously. As none of my friends or anyone that I know of have done this before, I find that a little bit not too convincing. If it is indeed quite lucrative and profitable, why aren’t many people doing this? Also, it just hit me that I do not any of those who have invested in this themselves! Please, could you share with me, whether the info they have updated you with is credible? Also, is any of you getting your returns back anytime soon? I asked many questions at the event, and they told me that JSI had 4 previous projects, i.e. Birmingham, Durham, Southampton, and Surrey. Surrey being the earliest one in 2006 has just been rezoned according to JSI and they are looking into selling it off to a prospective developer in the region of 2011. I wish to know David, as you indicated that you invested in their first project, whether you were told that you will get the return soon? Is this true?

    FYI, I bought a plot, with the hope to make something out of it. The fact that Gerrards Cross is next to an already-developed area, close to the vicinity of the railway lines, next to the M25 ring highway, seems quite convincing to be a potential land for development.

    I’m quite confused by the earlier comments here. Steve, I appreciate your concern by highlighting all the possibilities of it being a type of scam, and for pointing out reliable sources as the local authorities’ plans etc. However, I would like to double check with you, (by now I feel that you’re quite an expert in this field) what I read in the latest report by South Bucks (as there were too many previous reports, I just read the latest one, July 2010, updated and amended in Oct 2010), it says on page 35 that Gerrards Cross is indeed a plot of land in the focus for development. http://www.southbucks.gov.uk/includes/documents/cm_docs/2010/c/cd_36consolidatedversion2.pdf
    How long it will take for the development, I do not know, as like the first few reports have it that it can only be developed earliest in 2026. However, some reports, ie the July 2010 indicates that development should take place from 2006 to period of around 2026? I am quite confused here.

    With all due respect to all of the above comments by both seemingly quite credible and some seemingly libel, I wonder who’s who here- whether some are in the guise of the real estate company themselves to try to stop all the truth from spreading, especially to the poor investors who are really trying to earn some money here. DLEW, you made many points there, if they’re valid points,I am finished, as I don’t think i can get my deposit back. Half of me is telling me to go ahead, half of me, I am feeling wobbly in my knees. :(

    STEVE, what you mentioned in your first post is spot-on. How did you know about wht they said exactly? I am quite afraid now. And NO, this is not a dumping ground for Singaporeans, I think Malaysians too reads this.

    Would help if anyone else who attended this weekend’s event can share their experience. Any other investors?

    In Malaysia, several companies have been raided by the Companies’ Commission in Malaysia for land banking. http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/10/25/nation/20081025132723&sec=nation

    Someone, please tell me whether JSI is genuine or not?

    Thanks.

  2. Louis says

    Helen,

    I bought a plot of the Surrey project back in 2007, and I seldom heard anything from them other than times when they want to sell me another plot in another project

    I am really glad to hear the news from you and hope it is true:

    “Surrey being the earliest one in 2006 has just been rezoned according to JSI and they are looking into selling it off to a prospective developer in the region of 2011.”

    So far I have not heard anything from JSI and I do hope I can see some returns in 2011/12 time frame.

  3. says

    Well i seem to have upset some people so let me try and respond to some comments made.

    [Angela P] Isnt it better that you hear from them and keep you in the loop compared to you having to call them up constantly asking for updates after not hearing from them on months on end or even years?]

    Investments are not about customer care free gifts drinks parties or social events. If you get them you are paying for them as a cost of your investment. The only real measure of investments is their actual value when you cash out. Ask any Madoff investor who had the thrill of seeing their investment grow month by month year by year on paper but could not cash out. On a Scale of 1 – 10 what are your chances of cashing out at either a profit or at all ?

    [Angela P, Helen, Louis] Surrey being the earliest one in 2006 has just been rezoned according to JSI and they are looking into selling it off to a prospective developer in the region of 2011]

    Can you name the site in Surrey. If you mean Shrimps Field, Brighton Rd, Kingswood, Surrey then rezoning has removed this site from any possibility for development. Shrimps Field site was rejected for development due to open space deficiency. This has already been detailed in several web sites. I can post a link if the website owner allows it.

    [Angela P] Yes i agree you are paying a higher amount than what the company paid for it, but isnt that how bussiness works?]

    Are we talking about business or investing? If I sell you a S$2 note for S$30 as a business and you derive value from that note (maybe you like the serial number) then I make money and you are happy. If I sell the $2 note to you for $30 as an investment then you would be better off leaving the $30 in a shoebox under the bed. If you are buying this green belt land as an investment I have already explained why it is a bad one. The land cannot be converted for building so you cannot get rich that way. You are paying too much for the land to protect against annual inflation gains. The true land value will not pass the value of leaving the money in the shoe box for 40-50 years. The shoe box money is always available to you.

    [Angela P] One bad experience by one person doesn’t paint a fair picture of the overall market or to future/ current investors.]

    Name one UK land banking plot that has been offered to investors in Singapore that has converted for planning permission including those offered by JSI. Don’t name the general area name the plot. There are none. No land plots currently being offered have any prospect for development. This is not one bad experience. There are around 100 land banking companies that have failed or been shut down in the UK and several have been shut down in Singapore. This is an epidemic unfortunately.

    [Helen] it says on page 35 that Gerrards Cross is indeed a plot of land in the focus for development.]

    Facts:-
    Gerrards Cross is a place and a very nice community not a plot.
    Development will be allowed on Gerrards Cross land that is already marked for development potential.
    The local authority have stated that Gerrards Cross have enough potential development land to see them until at least 2026 without using any greenbelt land.
    JSI are offering greenbelt land in Gerrards Cross
    There is a lot of other green belt land in Gerrards Cross.

    Question:-
    If Gerrards Cross needs greenbelt land for development after 2026 will they
    a) deal with a Gerrards Cross land owner/developer/ voter/community member, ?
    b) Try and deal with multiple small investors in Asia who expect to make a huge profit and may have moved, died, or lost their documents?
    Supplementary question. On a scale of 1-100 what do you think are the chances that JSI will still exist in 2026 or even in 2015 ? I have an opinion on this

    [Angela P] If the mighty steadfast Singapore government can change its mind like, what about a more laxed UK government?]

    You miss a key point. JSI profit projections are based on current UK building land values. What keeps building land values so high in the UK is the protected land policies that you claim will easily be reversed. If Greenbelt policy is relaxed then the market will be flooded with cheap greenbelt land. You still cant make money. It wont happen because In the UK the politicians will get voted out of power if they allow the greenbelt to be developed in places like Surrey or Gerrards Cross without a very good reason.

    UK has 350 times the land area of Singapore with 10 times the population. There is a lot of empty land in the UK. Some land is marked for development with local developers. Some is protected land . JSI sell protected land because they can buy it cheaply because it cannot be developed. It is your choice if you choose to buy that land from JSI but at least accept it is land unsuitable for development.

  4. Steve F says

    Louis

    Yes I saw that advert as well. But they make clear the land has no planning permission and as always quote the proximity to important things without saying its protected land that has been rejected as housing land by the local authority.

    This statement on Shrimps Field Surrey was made in 2008. If anyone has a later statement from any UK planning or regulatory authority or recognised body reversing this (as the Jardin Smith salespeople claim ) then I will publicly apologise. If not then Jardin Smith continue to promote this land while knowing that Local Authority has said it is excluded from forward planning activities. I stand by my position that this is protected land as stated by the local authority and will not be developed.

    Strategic Housing Land Availability Assessment
    http://www.reigate-banstead.gov.uk/Images/Final%20SHLAA%20Document_tcm9-32460.pdf
    From Page 33 of this report

    “Those sites excluded on the grounds of flooding and open space deficiency are contained in Table 9″

    Line one of table 9 shows:-
    Ref: KBH1
    Address: Shrimps Field, Chipstead Lane & Brighton
    Road, Kingswood
    5 HA
    Current Use:Vacant Field
    Open Space Deficiency: Yes

  5. Louis says

    hi Steve,

    Thanks for the document. It seems you are very familiar with the operation of UK local governments. What does ‘open space deficiency’ actually mean? Does it mean if they build fewer houses then it is ok? Sorry if the question is stupid.

    The document also says it is a living document subject to review every year. Is there a way to obtain the latest document for 2009 or 2010?

    Another question is why do you say it is protected land? I supposed those classified as protected land are listed in table 8?

    Thanks.

    • Steve F says

      A freedom of information request has been raised against Reigate and Banstead council on the land at Shrimps Field that Jardin Smith offer in Asia.

      http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/jardin_smith_shrimps_field_poten

      A response should come within 20 days.
      Given the abysmal performance and loss of capital from other companies offering UK Land Banking plots in Asia I dont see this as being any different but lets wait and see what the response is.

  6. says

    Louis

    Open space deficiency means that the local area does not have sufficient open or green spaces to meet with UK Government guidelinefor “green lung” and recreation open spaces in developed areas and further development should not be allowed.

    Reigate and Banstead council called for a housing land availability survey in 208 for houses to be developed up until 2026. Many potential sites were submitted. A company called WS Planning submitted Shrimps Field Kingswood for consideration as a potential housing development site around June 2008. You can see this submission here on Page 4.

    http://www.reigate-banstead.gov.uk/Images/SHLAA%202009%20-%20Appendices%201-20_tcm9-37300.pdf

    The previoulsy mentioned report in Dec 2008 is the reponse which rejected this site. There is no need to review open space deficiency annually unless the government policy changes . Open space cant magically increase – if you have a deficiency it can only get worse unless you knock down buildings.

    WS PLanning list Jardin Smith as a customer on their web site so I am sure WS must have informed JSI of the Open Space Deficiency issue on Shrimps Field in Dec 2008.

    The local people in Kingswood had a protest site against JSI when they were called Jardine Smith. That was taken down some time ago presumably because once the open space deficiency was declared the threat of development was removed.

    People seem to take my comments personally because they dont match what they want to believe. You do not have to believe me you can do the same research I have done or contact the local authority directly. They can also confirm the current land status for you.

    http://www.reigate-banstead.gov.uk

    [email protected]

    My opinion based on available data is that Shrimps Field cannot be developed . Despite the many claims on this site that this opinion may be wrong no actual data has been presented to support an alternate view.

  7. Joe P says

    Helen

    You made the followingcomment
    [Quote]”I read in the latest report by South Bucks it says on page 35 that Gerrards Cross is indeed a plot of land in the focus for development.”[/Quote]

    On page 16 of the same report:
    The Green Belt boundary be strongly protected, with most new development accommodated on previously developed land, within existing settlements. The towns and villages in South Bucks will be high quality places, surrounded by protected landscape.

    On Page 20 and 29 of this report:
    Protect and positively manage the Green Belt.
    No amendments required to the Green Belt boundary in
    the period to 2026 (see Spatial Strategy).

    On Page 24:
    future development needs in the period to 2026 can be accommodated without the need for the release of
    Green Belt land.

    Page 31
    to help avoid unsustainable commuting pressures and protect the Green Belt, no new greenfield employment sites are proposed.

    Page 43
    to ensure that effective use is made of this land and to help protect the Green Belt.

    The Land that JSI is selling in South Bucks (Gerrards Cross) is Green Belt.

    Joe P

  8. hopeful says

    Can it be concluded that JSI has the intention to cheat investors then. Can they be collectively taken to court by investors to demand for money back since they painted a false picture with the intention to get investors to fall into the trap? Shouldnt investors take action now when the company is still around, rather than just complain here. What if the company really gets clammed down by authorities, will the investors get anything back?

  9. Philip says

    I bought a plot of land from Jardin Smith 2 years ago – Fontley farm house, Titchfield, Fareham. Any one bought the same piece of land? Any update on the status of planning permission?

    The salesperson that serve me has quitted and the one that serve me only call me when she wants to sell me new plot of land. When I wanted to get updates on the land that i bought, I could not get any which piss me off totally.

  10. once_bitten_twice_shy says

    I attended one of their seminars last week. apparently, they’re playing hard to get nowadays.refused to lower the price. the price quoted to me was totally not consistent. I met another potential investor at the lift lobby and was told that the price that was quoted to me is actually higher.

    can play price warfare. well, i guess that’s sales.

    Philip,

    well, not surprising that the salesperson only call you when she wants to sell you something else.

    But the surprising part is that they did not even have any updates for you.

    well guys, what about this statement from their website?

    “Gerrard’s Cross is a beautiful suburban town situated in the west side of London. It is widely considered to be the most expensive place to live in England apart from the centre of London. The local railway station enjoys nearly 70 services a day into central London. The site adjoins the London M25 orbital motorway and is only 13 miles from the busiest airport in the world, Heathrow. It has excellent road networks into London itself, particularly along the A40. London and the South East need more than 1.4 million new houses by 2020, the highest housing target in England. South East Buckinghamshire Council, consider Gerrard’s Cross to be one of the areas where development will take place.”

  11. says

    Some useful statistics which show what the real chances of development of Greenbelt in Gerrards Cross. Gerrards Cross is in an administrative region called South Bucks. South Bucks have already said that there will be no development of greenbelt before 2026 . Here they confirm the following.
    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/green_belt_monitoring_report

    Question: How much greenbelt land has been released for housing in the last 20 years ?
    Answer: Zero

    Question: How much of South Bucks area is greenbelt ?
    Answer: 87%

    So not only have South Bucks been able to meet all of their housing needs in one of the biggest housing booms in history from 13% of their land they can continue to do so for at least another 16 years. Even then they have a huge pool of Greenbelt land to choose from.

  12. Joe P says

    Jardin Smith have submitted a planning application for Shrimps Field .

    You can see it here:-

    http://www.reigate-banstead.gov.uk/Planit2/planit2.jsp?Controller=p2Controller&Action=FindApplicationByRefvalAction&REFVAL=10/02195/OUT

    Look at the various tabs and you can see the process outlined plus the correspondence recieved.

    Please be aware that the submission of a planning application has no bearing on a successful outcome or is no proof that a site can be developed. As an example anyone can pay a fee and submit a loan request for a billion dollars from the Bank. That request is no proof of status or ability to pay until it gets approved.

    • Steve L says

      The planning permission of Reigate by JSI was rejected by the council on 8th July 2011.

  13. New Investor says

    Hi Guys,

    its really good to know about so much things from just reading the thread. I was one of the new investors they call up to sell me new plot of land at Romford. The offer and returns seems really good. But could i check if anyone who bought the land with JSI got rezone? Thank you

  14. Elyonn says

    I just paid a downpayment for the Romford land. After reading all the comments, I wonder whether I should stop paying the balance 90%

  15. Joe P says

    Elyonn

    If you dont know anything about the planning status of the land get your deposit back and check with Havering Planning first – however you will need to tell them the reference or location of the Land. Havering is the adminstrative authority for Romford.

    [email protected]

    You might also want to look at the status of Jardin Smith Gerrards Cross land to give you an idea of the kind of problems you can have.

  16. Peter B says

    Jardin Smith are offering land in Lower Bedfords Road so it may be the same land but if not this will give indicative values for green belt land in that area.

    There was a recent transaction for Romford Green Belt Land. Anyone know what JSI are charging per Sq Metre for this land ?

    169 acres was offered for sale in 2008 for 2 Million UKP. Assuming the sales price was achieved that would equate to a raw land value of S$6 per square metre or S$5 per square yard.

    This is from the 2008 sales brochure description.
    http://media.primelocation.com/SPGR/SPCF/SPCF_CHM080212/BROCH_01.PDF

    Location
    ———
    Upper Bedfords Farm, Lower Bedfords Road , Romford, Essex , RM1 4DQ.

    Upper Bedfords Farm lies approximately three miles north of Romford, approximately 12 miles to the north east of London.

    Planning
    ———
    The land is situated within the Metropolitan Green Belt as defined in the London Borough of Havering Unitary
    Development Plan (adopted March 1993). Lot 1 is included within the Havering Ridge Area of Special Character and policies proposing improved bridleway and footpath access.

  17. Steve F says

    Hello Elyonn

    The Jardin Smith JSI web site talks about the land being in Romford. Lower Bedfords Road is actually to the north of Romford but is in the London Borough of Havering. Large sections of Havering are parkland and 23 square miles (60 km2) (more than half the borough) is Metropolitan Green Belt protected land.
    Looking at Google maps Lower Bedfords Road runs through a large section of greenbelt.

    Data from another site is says that bulk Greenbelt Land in Havering was selling for about 2 – 3 UK Pounds per square metre in 2008. I cant see it would have changed much now but maybe land banking companies have pushed the price up a bit.

    How big is your plot and how much are you paying for it ?

  18. Giggs says

    I just attended one of their seminar today. Was quoted S$300 per sq m. They offer a 5% ~ 15% discount depending on the number of plot you buy.

    If they are buying the land for 2~3 UKP in 2008, how much profit are they making from these investor!

  19. Richard L says

    Just attended JSI function.
    They are offering plots of 100sqm at SGD30k.
    Offering discounts of up to 20% (if you buy 3 lots).

    I was not paying enough attention so I did not know the exact location. Things I remembered, ~4km from Romford station but about 1~2km from 2 other station.
    About 1km from Harold & nearest Tesco.
    Shaped like one of the block offered – about 20acre.
    I think it is the second from the left on the brochure…

    No, I did not buy…

    Personally, I do believe in land banking but it takes in depth personal knowledge to do so successfully.

    Disclosure: I do own a piece of agricultural land in Malaysia – held it > 10 years and it has since become eligible to be re-zoned (as the land around it has already done so & developed). Yes raw land prices has appreciated 10x but my 2 partners & I are just sitting on it… Paid RM70k/acre then… (Not RM70k per 100sqm!)

  20. Peter B says

    Hello Giggs / Richard

    Depending on exactly what they paid that would be a 1000% to 2000% gross markup. This is pretty typical for companies offering UK land plots. Nice margins if you can get it.

    I’m curious to know did they make any promises or indications of the prospects of the land beyond suggesting that it was near to important things?

    Did they suggest the likely development period was ?

    Thanks

  21. Richard L says

    I am not sure what you mean by promises or prospects.

    There was no time frame given other than a chart showing optimistically what would happen if there was a re-zoning around year 6 – that is where you are supposed to get a 400% profit.

    In addition they have a vote at 15 year to sell regardless and a compulsory sell/exit at either 25/30 year even if there was no re-zoning.

    Now, they are going hi-tech, using Google Earth to show you the surrounding areas. High lighting the Romford center, Romford Railway station, Harold Hills & nearby Tesco.

    They keep mentioning WS Planning as handling the re-zoning application. Maybe I/someone should check WS Planning’s record as they seems to be quite active as a reference…

    Since I owned land in Malaysia, I asked about annual fees and upkeep expenses but the saleslady went blank! Plus we never sub-divided the land until we are ready to develop or split/sub-sell so the idea of immediate sub-division was a turn off for me instead of a plus. Having been offered land under water (literally) and land subject to government compulsory acquisition in the past, I was leery from the start. BTW, those are typical Malaysian land stunts – I had accompanied my Dad to physically check out the land (& asked neighbors) and followed up at the local land & survey offices, to uncover these gotchas… My father never buys land he has never seen and checked with official authority. And I guess he can be considered a small time land banker – for his own small property development company.,

    All I can say about owning land is:
    1. The % appreciation is much higher than housing,
    2. Lot’s of tricky requirements
    3. Difficult to get loan – only use $ you have no need for many years
    4. Almost a must to have some trusted person to attend to the land on the spot – squatters are a real threat (to your title).

  22. Peter B says

    There is no Jardin Smith planning application currently for Romford. WS planning are processing a Jardin Smith planning application for Shrimps Field. A look at the Reigate planning web site shows serious objections (because it is after all Green Belt). WS Planning will be paid to submit the application and can submit all the planning applications they want. It is the actual chance of success that counts. The cost of the planning submission for Shrimps Field is around UKP 10K which is less than the profit margin on a single 100 SqM plot. Some might see it as an investment to convince investors and authority of genuine intent.

    The UK planning process can take several years with several levels for appeal. There is nothing to stop someone declaring a planning application in process even with no chance of success.

  23. Ah Huat says

    The ultimate good margine really justify the $100 gift voucher.
    And with such good investment return, probably I wouldn’t be sharing with so many (unknown).

  24. says

    A what do they know request has been submittd for Jardin Smith Romford Site. You can see it here.

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/jardin_smith_bedfords_road_romfo

    I see the JSI Malaysia web site is now claiming to be the “offical site” for Jardin Smith International . Have they moved from Singapore ?

    Both the Singpaore and Malaysia do not feature any phone or office address in the contact details. Only email address. A lack of contact details is an identified indicator for Land Banking scams so they really should fix that quickly if they have moved.

  25. yves says

    JSI agreed to refund me $3000 in Nov 2010 after I told them that I wanted to quit. I was lucky to get my money back. I decided to quit after reading up in the internet on land banking scandals.

    I 100% believe JSI is a land banking scam company. Many land banking company failed in UK and Europe and started to scam the Asian people money. MAS should start the investigation on JSI immediately.

    I believe JSI as a land banking scam company will become a headline once they shut down and pull out from Singapore and Malaysia.

    Somebody in Singapore really need to blow the whistle on JSI before more investor going to lost all their money to the scam company.

    Becareful with your own investment money.

  26. yves says

    See yourselves the April 21 2011 UK news reporting that the UK Romford land that JSI is promoting now to Singapore and Malaysia investors, the land prices are marked up 5000% from the price that they paid in 2008.

    This news was real as the the news inside was even quoting the estate agents Strutt&Parker that sold the land to JSI.

    The news is saying that JSI even start selling the UK Romford land to China investors now. God bless Asian people.

    http://www.london24.com/news/havering_green_belt_for_sale_in_asia_1_878264

    • Helpless Lady says

      I had just bought a plot of land @ Romford at JSI event held in Goodwood Park Hotel, Singapore on 31 July 2011 & had paid the full amount of $20K 10% via credit card & 90% via cheque… the cheque was collected by the them at the evening from my place. I initially find it odd that they seems to rush into collecting the $ but the very friendly & seems honest staff explains it’s bcos it’s month end so he had to submit the payment 1st thing the next morning. Anyone can help me by telling me what to do next? After reading the posts on JSI really scares me & I hope to get back my hard-earned money as it took me to save such amount… I actually intend to have the $ leaps to a bigger sum for my girl’s future education fund! To-date, I had yet to get my title deed, that’s trigger me to search online for their contacts & here I see so much negative comments about UK landbanking.

    • Frankie says

      Investment Company knows human’s weakpoint _ ” Greedy ” , Ask yourself if such good return can be true, Everyone can be rich so easy and no need to work hard . Always remind yourself, there is no free lunch , unless you work for it.

  27. Joe P says

    What do they know for Romford has been responsed to by the UK Local Authority.

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/jardin_smith_bedfords_road_romfo

    The key points are:-

    All land to the north of Lower Bedfords Road and land to the south, east of the Rise Park housing area is designated as Green Belt. There has been no change in the policy relating to Green Belt since 2008.

    It is not known what piece of land Jardin Smith is selling. There
    have been no approaches to remove the Green Belt status of land on Lower Bedfords Road.

    There are no plans to change the Green Belt boundary in Havering.

    The Green Belt is confirmed in the Council’s Local Development Framework (LDF) and is not due to be reviewed.

    The Government has not made any indication that Green Belt would be relaxed in the future. National planning policy restricts development in the green belt except where very special
    circumstances can be demonstrated.

  28. says

    The Jardin Smith application for planning permission at Shrimps Field has been firmly rejected.

    You can see the rejection notice here

    Here are the rejection reasons in summary

    1: Inappropriate development in the greenbelt
    2: Would urbanise a rural area
    3: Harm the setting of an area of great landscape value
    4: Unsustainable location
    5: Non-affordable housing
    6: No contribution to mitigate the harmful impact

    For anyone familiar with UK planning law this rejection was a certainty. The question that should be asked is why would Jardin Smith ever have suggested to investors that this land had potential for development.

  29. linkysw says

    I am an investor from Walton International. Back in those days, people talked about Walton being a scam company, they have no track record etc. I was as fearful as you people here. I decided to give it a go since my money won’t make me more money in the bank. Besides, it takes courage to diversify. When I made the profits, those who claimed that my investment with Walton was rubbish came asking which other land is good to invest in.
    My friends and family has got our returns from Walton and diversified our investment with Jardin Smith International. In fact, many Walton’s investors are with Jardin Smith now too. I am just waiting as usual. I do understand how you new investors feel.
    DARE to try, people will stare at your amount of money in later years.

    Besides, investment is really up to individual. You make the decision, you make the money. You let others make a decision, you can only watch others make money.

  30. Joe P says

    This is a JSI thread. Your pitch sounds like a typical sales pitch = you cant win if you dont bet which is rubbish.
    In investing and even gambling you only bet if you have a chance of winning. In investing you should consider how much money you will retain if you dont win.
    Which sites have you and your friends made money on with Jardin Smith ?
    Please be specific and name the JSI site you have made money on. If you have not made money when will your sites convert ?
    None of the JSI sites have converted – none have potential to convert.
    Those are the facts to date not silly sales slogans.

  31. Joan says

    This is hilarious. Joe P seems to be so quick to jump at JSI. To read from the last thread is really Walton investor. Obviously mr linkysw is waiting for JSI. Why JSI, anyone?

  32. Joan says

    Hilarious. Joe P seems to be really anxious to jump on JSI and Walton Investor. So what if they make or don’t make. JSI is enemy? I have been to their events. They are pretty ok. Not my sort of investment though. My brother did invest with them on land and property. He has received cheques apparently from property he invested with them. he is also wondering why so many negative comments from the same few people here. Is there something we should know? thanks!

  33. Joe P says

    “Did you read properly? Made money from Walton.”

    Did you read properly this is a thread about JSI? No end plot investor has made money from JSI land banking sites.

    He has received cheques apparently from property he invested with them. he is also wondering why so many negative comments from the same few people here. Is there something we should know? thanks!,

    Yes there is something you should know. JSI have traded UK greenbelt Land Plots for over 5 years through the biggest UK housing boom ever. Despite lots of wolly words they have no site conversions. None.
    Please see the UK FSA landbanking video posted by the owner of this blog. 130 UK landbanking companies under investigation or closed down. Zero returns for end investors. Search for UK Land Banking in Google. What does that tell you about this business.

    Again you say my brother, my friend ,my cousin got rich blah blah.
    No actual site named no returns given. There have been no returns.

    I deal in facts.

    There have been zero investment returns from UK land plots sold under these schemes. A few investors have had their money returned by screaming loudly and early. If your “brother” is really invested I suggest he asks for his money back now.

  34. Aries says

    My heart is very heavy now after reading all these emails thread for I bought a plot of land from JSI too (just last Wed to be exact).

    I do believe that it is truth that land is scare but don’t understand about the greenbelt issue – how did JSI manage to buy land after land that is restricted by the UK gov and selling it to us consumers here in Asia.

    If they are really faudrent, is there any way to claim our money back. Also, how do we bring JSI to justly.

    Also, feel that the staff (are probably)not aware of the company position .

    • Empathy says

      Aries,

      i am puzzled but it behooves some of us really. How can you buy something which you haven’t done any research or due diligence on?

      Did you say if they are fraudulent? I don’t know. But we know that they have marked up the land by 5000% as in the UK local news.

      Most likely you have to wait another 20 to 25 years I think as mentioned by UK authorities to see approval of any kind for greenbelt land.

    • Steve F says

      Can i ask what plot you were sold ? How much did you pay ? Did they ever tell you that the land will be built on ?

      Ask for your money back and say you will go to the CAD if you dont get it. They dont want a public fuss like Profitable Plots..

      It is not illegal to sell green belt land. It can be sold and used for farming or recreational purposes. Farmland is worth a few dollars per square metre, recreational land is worth less. . Jardin Smith have convinced you that one day it can be built on and will be worth a lot of money. and persuaded you to pay many hundreds or thousands of dollars per square metre.

  35. gary says

    Jardin Smith pricing is still ok. recently i was invited to attend a seminar by another land banking company. the price is $26k for only 20 square meter. it is insane to pay for this kind of price. more ever i was told i will walk away with an ipad two but only given a swiss watch worth $20 but claim by the company said it worth $200.

    The company a malaysian company Kelana something owned by a indian lady is all out to get singaporan money. $26k for 20 square meter? think abt it

  36. Steve F says

    “Jardin Smith pricing is still ok.”

    OK for what ? Are you saying if they sell you land worth S$6 for S$150 per square metre you are getting a good deal ?

    Give me all of your money and I will give you 15% back . To be clear and with no small print required you will lose 85% That is still a much better investment return than you will get with JSI and you wont have to wait 10 years to understand how much money you have lost..

  37. James says

    Hello.. Really interesting thread here.. I did buy a small plot in gerrards cross through jsi.. Seems like it is becoming a mistake.. Great job on the info steve f.. Now the next question is who do we seek in jsi to effectively demand our hard earned money back and how should we go about it? Would not want to bark up the rotting tree.. A quick and perhaps detailed response is greatly appreciated

  38. Steve F says

    If your land banking company is still trading there are a few avenues or approaches you can take. Land Banking companies can no longer advertise in main stream media so rely on word of mouth, referrals and cold calling. They do not want people making a fuss with the authorities or other potential customers. If avoidance of fuss requires them to refund a couple of customers they sometimes will do so. Asking for money back directly might work. I would suggest a calm an controlled approach initially with any statements made to you that may have misled you. If that doesn’t work you may want to try using the various consumer organisations to support you.

    Like most investment schemes if everyone asks for their money back they cant pay so get in early.

  39. WhereverILayMyHat says

    I’ve come in late into this thread but felt should share.
    In 2008, I bought a plot for about RM60k from the Shrimp’s Field from Jardine Int, Malaysia Thought it was a way of getting my big toe into the international property maket. Soon after, another sales person wanted to meet me to introduce me to a member-get-member scheme they were running.
    For the first time, I was shown the surveyor’s report, well rushed through really, and wanted time to digest it but was discouraged from reading it whilst being given a really hard sell push.
    Fate stepped in when the salesperson knocked his coffee cup over and he had to go to the washroom to clean up, leaving the surveyor’s report on the table. I flipped to the report’s conclusion and basically (if I recall correctly), it stated along the lines that allegedly Shrimp’s Field was not a recommended buy!
    On the salesperson’s return, I politely declined then immediately hounded Jardine to return my money, threatening to bring in Bank Negara. They returned it. Offered to re-sell it for me but I declined figuring it would be really bad karma.
    I was lucky and thank the universe for looking after me!

  40. Joe Piper says

    JSI are stating their first success at a site called Anlaby in the UK . Interestingly this site had never been offered on the JSI website last year. A little research on the internet shows that Jardin Smith bought a site with a church building on it and the plans are to knock the building down and build apartments. It is a small low value already built site . This is not a green belt conversion. It is a fairly standard and valid planning application for re-developing an existing site.

    None of the green belt sites that JSI have offerd including Romford that Jardin Smith are currently promoting on their website have been submitted for planning approval and according to all reputable source none of the JSI greenbelt sites have any realistic chance of obtaining planning approval.

    It would be interesting to know if any JSI investors in Asia were offered Anlaby.

  41. third person opinion says

    joe wat r u exactly? dont you work? or is stalking jsi wat u r paid for? why r u always so quick to rebark others who speak up for jsi? if you haf a properly job, you will not be so free to keep following jsi news. sometimes the person who speaks the most, is the suspicious one.

    • WhereverILayMyHat says

      Third person, perchance Joe’s hit a sensitive nerve(s) obviously not to your liking?

  42. Wannabe says

    So much debating & negative responses about JSI.

    I am curious to know

    Why isn’t Singapore Government shutting them down if they are fraudulent?

    Did anyone make profits from JSI after 2005? and how much? any Proof?

    Why are those people replying in the threads stop responding to Joe comment?

    Why is Joe so familiar with JSI projects? Where is Joe from ? What do you do for living?

    Why isn’t anyone stand up firmly for JSI with evidence and proof?

  43. jeff says

    The comments posted here by some of these people seem to be a little biased, obviously coming from those who work in this company.

    It seems strange here, that although these people who claim that joe has something against the company; but yet somehow nobody is able to prove Joe’s comments wrong.

    I would like to see someone who can prove his claims about this land banking investment wrong.

    I stumbled upon this site when a friend recommended me to buy land from this company and it was then when a manager called me from the company to sell me a parcel of land in Romford at that time.

    After reading all the comments and also doing my own due diligence, I thought that its best for me not to invest in something that I am not sure about despite the wonderful returns promised upon planning permission.

    I believe that JSI has sold many projects as of date since they had started operating. I have asked them in regards to their processes in regards to planning permission of their previous projects and I never got a concrete answer from them justifying their work.

    I followed my friend for an investment update in regards to his investment, but as much as I don’t want to say it, I feel sorry for my friend as the updates that were given to him were just tons and tons of articles from different websites showing how many houses are being built in the area.

    I feel sorry for the people working there as they may not realize this as when their foreigner sales director starts telling the clients a pack of stories, they seem to agree with him. Maybe he is paid a lot of money to do this and therefore the client managers seem to agree and convince my friend that it is still a good investment despite what my friend asks.

    Their UK director is very smart when it comes to avoiding all the questions that you ask and keeps beating around the bush and you can see that he is doing he’s very best not to show how angry he was. I was lucky because, my friend told him that I am his brother so the director had no choice but to answer me as he was behaving really suspicious when I started asking him valid questions. He could only answer but not show a single paperwork regarding it, I cannot remember his name, but he’s quite a seasoned and old chap who has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to land and development.

    A few of the questions that I had asked which really ticked him off, things like
    If JSI has sold many projects before, what is the current status on these projects at the moment?

    My friend invested in Reigate and a few projects after that until I told him to stop doing it until he gets concrete answers.

    What about the current projects that have been sold before this? Has any work been done? Have they attempted to apply for planning permission for the other projects? If so, is there any proof or is there any documentation that JSI can provide to the clients? Is there anything in black and white that can be provided by the company assuring to the investors that JSI is a genuine and legitimate company with the intentions to returns clients’ money unlike other scrupulous investment companies?
    If you do good research, you will get valid answers.

    If JSI was a company that they say they are, why can’t their planners WS Planning which their local and foreign director keeps boasting about give any comments about the work they have been doing in regards to all their other projects?

    As of date, JSI has only submitted one planning permission for their site in reigate and obviously it was rejected. What about the other projects? Any news? I asked my friend whether has he got any written updates from the company until date. He’s answer is NO.

    All the updates will be provided by the company on a personal basis and obviously all their foreigner directors have changed faces many times.

    I have decided to respond to this thread when I met my friend the other day and he told me, that JSI has got planning permission for one of their projects and all the investors will be getting their money soon. Obviously, it was not funny when he told me that I should know where to put my money like him.

    Joe’s comment is right when he said that these Anlaby site is NOT a site that their land that has got planning permission. The building was bought with PLANNING PERMISSION and how can the salesperson of JSI mislead clients that way?

    The salesperson who sold him land is telling him that it was their land that got planning permission. I feel sorry for my friend, as just because she wears a skimpy attire, very tall and beautiful and he’s single and old, I guess it’s what these people fall for as he seems to believe the sales girl more then anybody else foolishly investing his money without getting anything so far from JSI from his invesments, Not even an update which he could show me or justify to me.

    What’s worse, my friend and not only him, many others have NOW got involved in another scheme that is promoted by JSI, – AGARWOOD TREES! The company who could not get returns through their land is now getting these same clients to invest more of their money in something even more unstable.

    This I realized when I recently spoke to him about his investment made in edgeworth.
    My friend has showed me and keeps trying to win my consent that this is a good investment , both land and trees – but when I see his papers, it is very obvious that this are both the same companies working the same way just selling different product.

    They use a company name Asia plantation Singapore and It is told that, the company is regulated in Singapore by the authorities and also is part of a company called Asia plantation capital. Whats amiss is that, a lot of things are different between the two companies including the agreements. It is obvious, what JSI did with their land, buy it very cheap and sell it high. The same is with their trees, if you buy the trees directly from the company in the UK, it is MUCH cheaper as you can check for yourself. These people are currently using the same office as jardin smith in kuala lumpur selling these investments.

    I am told by my friend that this agarwood investment has a track record and has provided clients back with money. He says his manager has told him that there have been people who received money from this company. Yet again, I ask him to show it to me, nothing yet. The only thing that he could show me was his agreement and his timber certificate. I was shocked when not only I saw the agreement, let alone the certificate. The timber certificate looks like it was made by the company and there is no way to check with the authorities anywhere.

    A lot of people keep falling into the traps of these sort of lucrative schemes. If a company is genuine and probably JSI is, I think they should be able to back up everything they say with a piece of paper at least or from other authorities or their vendors etc.

    The company should be open and transparent with the way they do business. The company should not be hesistant to show any of their documents if a client requests.

    If they are truly a genuine company, there should be nothing to hide and all the relevant documents should be open to those who invest for their assurance.

    Please don’t be misled. As a person from the legal background, kindly read the documents properly as once you have signed it, there is nothing that you can do about it.

    Investments schemes such as the trees are not regulated in certain countries like Malaysia and will be forced to shut down if they operate openly. Normally these sorts of companies operate discreetly so that it doesn’t fall into the eye of the authorities.

    For those who have bought land previously from JSI, I really do hope my friend gets his money back and prove me and others like Joe wrong.

    For the staff that are working for JSI or this sort of insecure investments s, whether you know it or not, don’t be duped by the people in your company and making you the one to be misleading the local people into putting their money into something you are not sure of yourself just for your greed.

    Because, normally when something happens, the smartest people are those who are getting you to do the job and do not meet the clients as they will be the first to walk away without you knowing as the client will only come back to you first.

  44. Joe P says

    [@third person]joe wat r u exactly?

    Male, English , Middle aged.

    [@third person dont you work?

    Yes , full time in IT management for a Global MNC.

    [@third person or is stalking jsi wat u r paid for?

    I post once or twice a month on UK land banking. There are hundreds of posts added to the internet each month by sponsored posters acting for land banking companies. Thesesponsored posts talk about how you can huge returns and how great theseland banking companies are. These sponsored sites do not allow comments or criticism. I try and provide some balance to that

    [@third person why r u always so quick to rebark others who speak up for jsi? if you haf a properly job, you will not be so free to keep following jsi news. sometimes the person who speaks the most, is the suspicious one.

    I am very ashamed at the way UK Land Banking Plots are promoted in Asia. I want to provide a balance to the torrent of misleading information that is used to promote land banking. There are posts on the internet stating that returns of 1000% or more are easily possible in a short period of time.This is not true.

    It is not illegal to buy or sell UK land plots. But the prospects for these land plots are always misstated. It is a fact that the most likely outcome for an investment in UK Greenbelt land plots is a loss of 100% of your investment. Having shown willingness to buy a UK Land Banking plot you may be encouraged to buy other poor investments. Later on you may even be offered chargeable services to recover your investment.

    So where allowed I try and point to real facts and points of authority to allow people to be informed and make their own decisions and choices.

  45. Lee says

    O..dear! Got to read all this too late. Attended a session last Sat. at MBS with my family. Paid deposit totally $2970, by credit card for 2 plots. They quoted 33k for each plot. 5% discount for 1 plot, 10% if u take 2 &15% if u buy 3 plots. We are suppose to complete d sales (paying the balance of $56,430) at their office this coming Wed. nite. Can anybody advise what should we do? Any possibility of getting back our deposit? Thank you in advance.

    • Chris K. says

      Lee, did you get your deposit back?

      I attended the same session at MBS with my wife and paid a deposit of $1568 by credit card for 1 plot.

      And like you we found out on the internet that greenbelt lands will never be rezoned as residential land.

      We went to the office last Wed to demand our deposit back but they insisted that their compliance officer is busy closing cases for the Romford plots.

      We will meet them again this Tue.

      • Lee says

        Hi Chris, due to other commitments, we did not go to their office, as planned last Wed. We have yet to approach them for refund as we want to hear out more advice before we make our move.

  46. Joe P says

    Which site did you buy ? You can always say you made a mistake and ask for your money back.

    • Lee says

      Thanks Joe. It is Lower Bedford Road, Romford (West Site). We will definitely try to get our money back.

  47. says

    My husband and I purchased a plot from JSI back in 2007 during one of their seminars and lately I have received call from them about their site.

    We went down eventually as my husband travels a fair bit and they informed us that our site has not been granted planning yet. They were detailed with their explanation about the planning regulations. I could not understand it all as some of the reports shown to us were quite technical.

    I did a little research online about the changes about the planning policies to get a better grip on my hard earned monies. There are indeed changes coming about. How soon, we wouldn’t know. Anyway, we knew that when we bought this. It was going to be a long term investment and we had to wait. So for those who are impatient or wish to make a fast buck, this isn’t for you.

    Interestingly I came across some forums and found the same Joe P claiming to be resident of quite a few of JSI’s sites. Joe P, are you really staying there or are you in Asia as you mentioned in this site?

    My advice to anyone venturing into this kind of investment is “open your eyes, do your research before committing.”

    My husband and I dabble in the stock markets and we have a house in Malaysia and UK. We do not put all our eggs in one basket and we have no major commitments as our two boys are now working.

    Just remember that with any investment, there is a level of risk. Do make sure you are comfortable with this before you proceed.

    Mary Lim

    • Joe P says

      @Lee
      Good luck with your refund. Romford is a greenbelt site so highly unlikely to get planning permission. Greenbelt land in the Romford area is worth about S$5-S$15 per Sq metre on the open market depending on a few factors.

      @Mary
      Not sure what you mean by claiming to be a resident. I move between the UK and Asia on business but I am from the UK .

      UK greenbelt Land Banking plots have had a zero success for conversion so far in around 10 years that they have been offered as an investment “opportunity”. The historic data for companies operating in this segment suggest they all fail eventually and investors lose most or all of their money. Your company might be the black swan that proves the data wrong but i doubt it.

      The best way to be informed on any major decision is to have at least 3 independent data points. If all your information is coming from JSI or related sources then really you only have one data point. It doest matter how much they update you. Its still one data point. You might want to research UK land banking in google and try and understand why your site is different from those that are in trouble or have failed . You can also contact the relevant UK local authority for your site to get their opinion.

      Good luck with your investment.

  48. jeff says

    I attended their event recently at Sunway Resort Hotel.

    Jardin Smith International are no longer allowed to market their land in Malaysia openly. They are not allowed to advertise and neither are they allowed to have any public events anymore like they normally do in hotel.

    They now operate openly under a company called Asia Plantation Singapore and most of the employees that were selling land is now in the business of selling trees. The owner of Asia Plantation & Jardin Smith is the same.

    As they know they cant sell land anymore. They now sell trees promising ridiculous returns to investors who had bought land from them and new clients. Please bear in mind. This trees that they are selling has no concrete evidence of returns given. I was told that many clients have received. But if you called the original company, they say no AND THERE IS NO GUARANTEE if your TREES DO NOT HARVEST ANYTHING AT ALL.

    If you had got an update for your land, from an elderly english guy. I think his name is richard. He didnt give me his card the last time, but then again. Please do verify his facts as most of it are not as what you think it would be. He has a way of getting around facts. Not sure if he is still there anymore.

    All the planning permission documents shown by them are, consented by government and are not done by Jardin Smith..

    Jardin Smith – it likely has any chance but i do hope they get it.

    But then , if you invested with them they should be able to provide you with documents showing what they have done with your land and not merely showing you documents of what others have done.

    Kindly becareful of what youre investing in, if a company is genuine. They would be able to provide you every single detail without hesitation and could be verified by third parties.

    Like i have mentioned before, being from the legal background, this is how you differentiate between good companies and bad companies.

    It is because of companies like this, spoil the reputation of genuine companies.

    I am glad that they have stopped selling land, but now …. its back to the same thing ….

    Same people, but now its just trees. I am not worried about the land part, what worries me now more is how they operate through Asia Plantation.

    Hope they deliver to clients for this one. A seven year investment that may not have anything at all if the trees dont harvest. – Now thats a big risk!

  49. Bitten once says

    To those who wants a refund…

    Pls do it fast. There’s a fair trading act in sg for consumer protection. For those direct selling, there’s a 7 day cooling off period, excluding weekends, to claim your refund. The company involved will try to avoid such claims and drag the 7 day period, making it null so you can’t refund anymore.

    In general some companies they play dirty tactic, they dun inform you of the cooling period, but slip the form into your contract envelope. If you are not inform of the cooling off period by your sales rep, your cooling off period does not start from the day you sign but from the day you find out about the cooling off period.

    There are some who seek help from lawyers to claim back their money under this fair trading act. Those who were not informed and it lapsed more than 7 days, and some were not given the form to opt out within the 7 days also seek help from lawyers. This happened with the time share companies. I believe JSI will also have cooling off period becos it is a direct selling company.

    I was once caught by a company playing this trick. However i managed to settle it for a little price.

    I was once invited to JSI too, but i didn’t buy anything.

  50. Lee says

    Hi Joe, though yet to get our refund, we must say a big thank you to you. It is people like you, who dare to speak up that makes this a better world!

    JSI is very persistent. My wife & I were courted separately for almost a year and several months respectively.

    They made us believed they just want us to get to know them ( a newly established company dealing with overseas properties). Nothing was mentioned about land banking until we agreed to attend. That was two days before we attend the session.

    With hindsight, I should have done some research before attending! If I have done my due diligence, I would not have attended.

    They were never pushy. But they made you believed the plots were selling like hotcakes. Decide fast or you missed the boat! Another smart tactic they employed was that, because the plots were selling so fast but they have to leave some for other investors, we were offered one plot only! However, if we want, they can try to talk to their superior. Sure enough, they came back with good news. We ended up buying two plots.

    They also never come straight with the amount required for investment. 100k was the amount they kept mentioning. As we were perceived to expect the investment amount to be 100k or more, when we were finally told its 33k, psychologically, we were made to think its cheap. We were even prepared to buy 3 plots. That would still be less than 100k!

    Just take Romford (west site) as example. 20 acres is 871,200 sq ft. That is 80, 937 sq m. JSI bought it in 2008 for less than S$6 psm. Add in other costs(excluding subdividing cost), they would have forked out around half a million only! They are now selling it for around S$297 to S$300 psm. That is almost 5000% marked up!

    Assuming, they do retain 20% (which I doubt) and they sold off the other 80%, they would have grossed S$19 million at least!

    There is no incentive for them to push through the “rezoning”. Selling off the site after rezoning would give them only a fraction of what they have already made!

  51. Chris K. says

    I go on record to say that this matter with Jardin Smith International is settled amicably.

  52. Lee says

    We write to say that we were emotional with our fanciful remarks and the matter with JSI has been resolved to our satisfaction.

  53. Jardin Smith International Pte Ltd says

    To all readers of this forum,

    Jardin Smith International would like to clarify a comment made in this site by one individual named Jeff. (Full name and particulars not supplied.)

    Jeff claims that Jardin Smith International (JSI) and Asia Plantation Capital (APC) are the same company. For the record straight (JSI) is in no way related to APC. We are a Singaporean company which sells land and property and they are a company from the United Kingdom that own and manage plantations around the world.

    Jeff’s confusion probably arises because APC has agreements with many third party independent marketing companies selling their products on an agency basis around the world. JSI have been helping APC to market their products in Asia in particular on this agency basis.

    We hope this clarifies the situation.

    In the meantime, if any of you (Jeff in particular) have any further queries please contact us at [email protected].

    Alternatively visit APC at their website:

    http://www.asiaplantationcapital.com

    The Management
    Jardin Smith International Pte Ltd

    • Jeff says

      Jardin Smith International.(JSI)

      Thank you for your clarification. It is nice to see the management responding to a thread when there are so many claims/accusations made against Jardin Smith.

      While you are at it, maybe you could also reply to all the other comments and put your clients and the public at ease.

      Perhaps i may have gotten my facts wrong as maybe your employees have misrepresented people the wrong way.

      I speak because It was the same person who sold me land before carries an APC Name Card at the moment from your organisation and it is unfair of me to mention any names of your employees because they are just doing their job.

      I have bought a plot before with JSI after recommendation from a friend a while back.

      I am glad that JSI did not make it a hassle for me to get my money back as per what some may claim here.

      Regarding your statement,

      “JSI have been helping out APC to market in Asia”

      I am glad that JSI is helping other companies to profit. Hope JSI can help the clients profit too.

      If that is the case, is it legal for you to sell such an investment in Malaysia?

      Is your investment covered by any legal bodies ?

      Is your contract valid and what happens to a clients money if anything goes wrong ?

      Since it is a UK company, are they registered here in Malaysia ?

      Do they have a license to sell this investment ?

      If i bought this investment from APC or JSI whoever it is , how am i protected if anything goes wrong ?

      There is a lot of plantation companies in Malaysia, and many of them operate silently as they are not alloweed to operate in such way.

      the only one or two who are operating with VALID license is such like company call

      Country Heights Growers Scheme Berhad

      which is Regulated by SSM in Malaysia

      and has been providing clients money back ever since they have started.

      I would like to extend my apologies to the readers in this forum if my statement was inaccurate in terms of the link between Jardin Smith International & Asia Plantation Capital.

      It is my mistake for thinking that they are the same company as it is clarified by the management of Jardin Smith International that they are ONLY
      helping Asia Plantation Capital to market their investment.

  54. cockanathan says

    If you want to invest in land, at least invest in the real thing — companies and actual productive land that is able to generate money NOW — rental properties, commercial & retail, industrial, mining etc. Not some airy-fairy talk-cock bedtime story from some cock-talking cockster.

    If you’re so caught up in the angmoh sounding name, at least put your money into the real deal — Jardine Matheson which has been around for 180 years — they’re celebrating their 180th anniversary in 2012. Stocks like Jardine Matheson, Jardine Strategic, Hongkong Land, Mandarin Oriental, Astra (all part of Jardine) provide a globally diversified business portfolio including properties, land development, mining, natural resources, hospitality/hotels, serviced apartments, residential, office, retail, etc.

  55. Baby says

    I was just doing my research about this investment…. I realised that the land at Jardin Smith seems quite expensive. It is around 20times the price of Walton’s land. Based on PSF prices… Jardin Smith land is around $22psf… and Walton is about $1psf.

    I am quite curious to find out why there is such a big difference?
    What should we look out for when we consider it?

  56. Joe P says

    Green Belt Land in and around London seems to go for about £3-£6 per square meter in recent open market land sales. The range depends on suitability for farming or recreational use and size of plot because green belt land can not typically be developed. That is about $0.60 – $1.20 per square foot.

    If Jardin Smith have compelling evidence about why their undeveloped greenbelt land is worth $22 per square foot or 40 times more than open market it would be good to know what it is.

    I don’t believe Walton land represents any better value , there is just so much more empty space in Canada the prices are 20 times lower. Take a look at the map.

  57. leng says

    The land that Jardin Smith International has been selling is overpiced from what they have purchased it for. They sell to investors claiming that the land has building potential. However, when you contact the relevant authorities in the UK. Most Land Banking Companies have been shut down and no council would give approval to any land banking schemes as to what has happened recently. The FSA, financial securities authorities of the UK is going on a major clampdown on land banking companies. What site are they offering now ?

    Jardin Smith International now represents/diversified to a new investment in a different form. They are in the similiar tracks of profitable group that started with land and diversified to other products in the same investment scheme promising clients lucrative returns while you wait.

    It is weird to see people, giving their hard earned cash to somebody and is told to wait for years and years and years to see their money without anything at all. I wonder what do they do with the money. Everybody knows are operating a new investment scheme with new company called asia plantation singapore collecting money from the public and offering lucratives returns.

    If these investments was so good and so lucrative – the wealthy tycoons would be owning all of this !

    wonder whats next ?

    You dont wait to buy shit, you buy shit and wait.

    ” The future of renewable energy “

  58. Chong says

    Tell me more about APC tree selling….in Thailand promising return of 400-500% in 7 years. Are they real..suppose to invest with them. (agrawood trees)

    • says

      Dear Readers of Martin Lee’s Blog
      It has come to our attention that certain individuals in this blog have posted scurrilous and damaging remarks against us and our products. These remarks which are without foundation are frowned upon by us. Whilst we do not wish to commence actions against the author and the moderator of this blog, we strongly urge these individuals to contact us to clarify any misgivings they may have against us.
      We wish to state for the record that we will answer in detail any concerns you may have about our products. Be assured that where your concerns are justified, we will clarify the issue, and where they are not, we will defend our rights vigorously.
      Please contact us at +65 6635 3320 and we will be more than happy to serve you.
      The Management
      Asia Plantation Singapore Pte Ltd

    • Joe P says

      @Jeffrey 4) Will it make money?
      Ans:Yes – but not for the suckers who invest in this.

      Round 1:
      Where the land owners, the salespeople, the lawyers, the marketeers, PR company, the website builders, the accountants, make money . The king will have beautiful clothes. Buy now and you Mr investor will be able to see them in 10 years.

      In this round people like you call us weak or wimps or stupid but present no facts at all. You use bullying tactics if we challenge any statement like you saying the UK company is FSA approved when it is not. You and your cronies say this will make money in blogs and on the phone and in the rented ballroom of expensive hotels. But the smallprint says:- The value of investments can go down in value as well as up, so you could lose everything.

      Round 1 is real payoff round. In Round 1 everyone involved except the investor makes money. Round 1 lasts until there are no new investors to pay the sales commissions or third party fees, or so many investors complain that the authorities have to take action.
      ————

      Round 2:
      Round 2 is where the investment does not mature and where the investor does not get paid. Ask any UK land banking investor. In Round two all the parties claim innocence and blame market conditions, a few bad apples or the regulators or those horrible internet critics. They point out the small print and say we never promised anything.

      Sometimes there is a Round 3.
      In Round 3 everyone sees some investors are still willing to invest more and offer to recover the money lost in round 1 for just a small fee or by doubling up in another investment . You bought UK green belt land ? Dont worry we can move you into plantations or Oil or Philippines land..

      Protect yourself legally, bleed the sucker list dry, move the money offshore, and make the payout so far in the future they wont even remember how they were cheated.

  59. tt says

    Chong:

    If you put your money in the Singapore Casinos , the chances of you making your 400-500% returns would definately be higher then buying these trees.

    If an investment could make you 400-500 % returns, then dont you think that there will be so many millionaires or billionaires in this world and nobody will have to work.

    The plantation owners wouldnt need to sell their trees to other people for others to get rich. In fact, The farmers themselves could plant these trees and make their own money. Even if they waited once for one time returns, they would be billionaires themselves.

    There are many scams out there and the new one lately is the fact of Asia Plantation Singapore selling the same concept that they used to do with Jardin Smith International. Even Jardins Smith International acknowledged that they are selling these trees, and they could not answer some of the peoples questions.

    Remember when they used to go around telling people to buy land … waiting for planning permission and then reaping the same 400-500 % profits through landbanking???

    What happened to the so called land that has so much of potential for development?
    Anybody care to mentioned that they have made money so far ?

    Now the same with trees through Asia Plantation Singapore?

    The only difference here is that, the product has changed but the people hasnt changed – whether its the sellers or buyer.

    You could invest your money now, and then wait for 7 years to make this millions of profit for yourself, which i would suggest that you retire now and wait for your profits at that time.

    Why would someone give you so much profit for so little money ? A lot of people have been scammed worlwide in the hopes of making great returns in this great sort of investments.

    The fact that people can be so easily duped makes it easier for people going all around the world promising great returns.if you think that APC could make you that amount of money then by all means it is your money.

    For whats your money worth there will be only two things – get your returns in 7 years , like how they have promised people into buying land and then still have not got a single cent back or this could be you:
    Go to alan tans website and search : land-banking-scam-in-malaysia-edgeworth-properties

    If it was so great, i think even warren buffet will come and invest in these plantation scheme.

    I put ONE DOLLAR and I GET 500 DOLLARS in 7 YEARS ?
    America, Greece and the rest of Europe should have long gone invested in these agarwood plantations and they wouldnt be having any crisis at the moment.

    By the way, just curious …. what if your tree doesnt produce anything at all in 7 years ?

    Do you get your money back ?

    The only people that would be making the 400-500% Profit would be the owners of Asia Plantation and their unscrupulous employees who has no moral values in their lives selling these investments to innocent people who worked really hard for their money taking advantage of their greed.

    God bless them, because they have got a better investment for themselves, convincing people like you to buy this and wait while they make all their commisions.

    The same people who brought you land, now brings you an upgraded more sophisticated investment …. trees on your land! This time your trees produce black gold! In 7 years time, they will be selling you birdnest on your trees and the crap from the birds would be the white gold.

    If you watch the link, you would see people in the forum begging for their money back as this was money kept for their retirement, weddings, school education and some of them, exhausted all their money investing to the once promised investment – LAND ! and now the owner has the cheek of saying he doesnt know where is all the money gone?

    Its like a thief telling you that, lend me your wallet filled with cash, and il give it back to you in 7 years time filled with more cash.

  60. lim says

    My dad purchase 3 plots of their Durham project somewhere in 2007. Until now, our invesment is heading no where.

    Anyway they still take the trouble to “update” on our investment every year. But frankly speaking, the update is all craps as it’s all base on their talking without any supporting facts.

    They claim that we are going to see our returns real soon, in around 2 years time after the planning permission is obtained and the land put up on sale.

    We waited for almost 5 years and now was told to wait for another 2 years before we see “hope” I was thinking if the project is going to realised soon in 2 years, won’t our plot of land worth much more compared to those plots which are launched much later than ours?

    Thus I highlight to the person-in-charge to help put up my plot on sale to other existing investors since it is presume to see returns in 2 years time! She gave excuses like……. “only fools will sell now as project is going to mature real soon”, “no existing investor will sell their plots at this time” etc…

    It just don’t make sense to me at all! I am only asking for the price that I paid initially without any premiums at all. If other plots are selling like “hot cake” as claimed, than mine should be “hotter” Afterall we waited 5 years!

  61. Joe P says

    Ask your agent to put that in writing to you about the two years . I agree with you that if you are 75% through the waiting period then your investment should be worth more as it is close to maturity. However I don’t believe a word of it. Sorry its green belt with no chance of conversion.

    Have you tried contacting the local authorities in Durham ?

    Also do a search for Jardin Smith Brunei – some interesting news

  62. rick says

    Just came back from an APC marketing pitch. Didn’t sign up but it sounds pretty reasonable. After 7 year harvest and compound return of approx 20% a year. Anyway, co is not able to show credentials/audited reports, other signs of credibility so it is best to stay sidelined. Thanks for the info here tho.

  63. Jeffrey says

    I went to one of the APC event 2 weeks ago and i asked lot of qns pertaining to the credibility and credentials of the company. Products and returns sound pretty reasonable with early exit strategy (about year 3 or 4). One will be able to maximize their return if wait till their harvesting. The mgrs had shown me prove of their past track records and the credibility of the company with proper documentations including their audited reports. I have done a check personally with due diligence and everything looks fine. Just my 2 cents, Ask the right person and u will get all the answers you want instead of the sales rep.

    • anom says

      Jeffrey:

      What track record are you talking about ?

      Track Record in selling to people and making them wait for their money or track record in making money for investors.

      mind you : Asia Plantation Capital & Asia Plantation Singapore is a new company

      Asia Plantation Singapore follows the same investment scheme as Jardin Smith International.

      The product is different and but the *** job is the same.

      How can a new company just established have track record ? From where ?

      There is no track record and there is no audited reports. Not IN JSI and definately not in APS/APC, the investment that is sold to you has no track record, so if there is , could you please enlighten us with their track records ?

      Well its your money. Im sure your source of due diligence is more credible then the FSA in the UK which has warned people not to invest in this scheme.

      Please note that The authorities have shut down Jardin Smith International In Brunei.

      Give them your money and let them plant it for you in their own bank accounts.

      • Jeffrey says

        Hi Anom,

        It’s track record in making money for investors. Anom, i would like to ask you. Hv you been to APS event held by APS before, and not JSI? What makes you think that APC is a new company though APS is new in Singapore? Explained by the managers from APS with official documentations and audited reports from the public accountants with returns already made from their UK’s counterparts which is in fact a plantation company regulated by FSI. APC is part of the UK’s group of company

        JSI used to marketed their products before APS is officially set up in Singapore. Same investments with JSI? From my knowledge from APS’s mgrs… it is a different product and investment scheme as APS’s investment has an early exit strategy compared to what JSI had sold.

        Being in the investments and commodities industry for more than 15 years with a Master in Finance and CFA. I am sure my credentials and knowledge are far better than most of you guys, but i still went to their event to find out more rather than based on what one knows about shares, insurances, unit trusts and other traditional investment products. Traditional investments and (actual crops) commodities are differences in their respective trades. I would advice you to personally go down to their event and have a talk with APS’s managers and not based on your knowledge on traditional investments.

        Just my 2 cents, if by sitting in front of your computer and do a search in google will simply know about everything about an investments without having to go through proper products training and experience, especially a company’s business model. One won’t know how they actually operate their businesses.

          • anom says

            Dear Jeffrey,

            Yes. I have been to APS/APC investment talk before.

            Glad that you have a Master in Finance and CFA and have 15 years experience in these sort of investments.

            Because, with your sort of experience, instead of listening to the managers and getting their so called “audited reports” and hearing what they have to say, i would have thought that

            maybe you would have contacted the relevant authorities and check with them directly yourself.

            Plantation Capital UK is no longer regulated by the FSA, and it is a false claim by the company if they are claiming that they are still are as they are not allowed to sell anything there if its these sort of scheme.

            I agree it is a total different investment from JSI and yes they were “so called” assisting APC to market these scheme.

            Funny its how, JSI have picked a similiar company that sells the same type of investment scheme that they used to sell but the product is different isn it ?

            In fact Jefferey, What would be the best is that you invest in these trees, please do let us know when you have made your money or if your “early exit” plan works for you.

            If you have invested in Jardin Smith International , then you will also be waiting for these sort of “early exits” and your plots of land being sold to others.

            It would be nice to be proven wrong.

            Also, i would love to personnallly meet any of those people whom “actually” made money from APC/APS in these scheme. Instead of them “showing” you that clients have made money.

            I would also understand that since you are such an expert with 15 years of experience, you would also know that your trees will have 0 (zero) value if there is no Oil produced right ?

            And also, your returns are not guaranteed as would there “definately” be somebody buying you oil right when it matures?

            How long after 7 years would you get back the returns and what if in 7 years, your tree doesnt produce or what if it produces and it cant be sold ?

            if you claim that they have an early exit, would would the value of your trees be – if it has no oil in it and you would need to sell it in for example 4 – 5 years time.

            If these oil is can be artificially mass produced, what would happen to the supply and demand in 7 years time.

            What would be the need of these oil in 7 years if the economy did not do well?

            If your tree dies in two years, three years time or in the 6th and the half years time, do you wait for it to grow again, do they replant it and give you back a 4 year old tree ? If they do, at whose expense and why would they want to do that, or HOW can they do that ?

            If “somebody” decides to BURN the harvest down in 6 years time just before when you are about to “get returns” , do you still get back your money or your capital ?

            Well guess with your extensive experience, i am sure these questions would have been answered by yourself or maybe the managers in Asia Plantation Singapore/Malaysia.

            I wonder why, the middle easterns with a whole lot of money, buy plots of land in these places and planted these trees themselves ????

            Puzzling isnt it ?

            I guess Jefferey, you would know whats best for your investment appetite

            and if youre speaking on behalf as an employee, i would suggest you get the facts right from the relevant authorities a call is not too far away from the right people

            Good Luck in your investment.

            • Jeffrey says

              Dear Anom,

              I am sure if you ask the right person in APS/APC, you will get all the answer you need from your above posts instead of wild-guessing yourself pretending to be an expert. I still remember many years ago when Walton International first set up their office in Singapore. Negative comments were posted all over some forums but it takes years, especially their first batch of investors, follow by many others whom have realized their investment to shut their negative comments up. Well…i have already invested and will let you when i realized my profit.

              Thanks for your well-wishes.

        • Joe P says

          Plantation Capital PLC is not regulated by the FSA in any form. So where is this FSA regulation you are talking about ?

          Plantation Capital Plc. is an appointed representative of Porta Verde Financial Services Ltd. which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Firm Reference Number 540921.

          Porta Verde Financial Services Ltd is regulated by the FSA but are not in the plantations business. It is confusing what business Porta Verde are in. From their web site they appear to be offering a service to allow companies to appear to be regulated.

          Our mission is quite simple; to provide you with FSA regulatory solutions that are both readily understood and easily implemented.

          These kind of companies are always looking to gain reputation through association. I suggest you call the UK FSA and ask them their opinion on Plantation Capital and Porta Verde before you promote APC further in these forums.

          • Jeffrey says

            Hi Joe,

            It seems that you don’t know what Porta Verde Financial Services Ltd does as a regulated firm and it won’t hurt you to give FSA a call to find out instead of guessing. Not understanding and confusing on your part of what business they are in is because of your lack of knowledge.

            • anom says

              Dear Jeffrey,

              It is either you are an investor who does not really know what he got himself into or obviously you would be an employee working for Asia Plantation Singapore.

              In this case, from what you seem to claim, it is clearly that you are an employee from Asia Plantation Singapore and you are one of those who is either a part of this con job or your are completely unaware.

              maybe i will just assume that you are an ignorant employee who is greedy for the money just like all the other heartless employees who work for the person who owns this shop by stealing other peoples hard earned money.

              If you go to the FSA website, and check theregister, it clearly states that Plantation Capital UK is no longer a representative of the FSA.

              Here is the link for your further assistance :

              http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/register/search/financial_firm/index.shtml

              type plantation capital.

              you will get the status of Appointed Representative – FORMER

              in this case , if you continue to check what this means,

              “A firm is no longer allowed to carry out business that we regulate.

              To see the name and details of the former principal(s) of an appointed representative look at the ‘Principals’ section on the Register.”

              Therefore, your claims or the company’s claim that Plantation Capital is authorised by the FSA is NOT TRUE and the public is being misled by this info.

  64. Joe P says

    Hello Jeffrey.

    I did write to the FSA on Friday.
    This was your quote (with typo corrected)

    Explained by the managers from APS with official documentations and audited reports from the public accountants with returns already made from their UK’s counterparts which is in fact a plantation company regulated by FSA.. APC is part of the UK’s group of company

    You can look at the registration details here for any company.
    https://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmSearchForm.do

    519508 – Porta Verde Financial Services Ltd
    FSA Current Status: Authorised
    FSA notices: Unable to hold client money.
    FSA permissions: Allowed to offer many kinds of investments and services (these are listed on the FSA site) but no plantations mentioned.

    540921 – Plantation Capital Plc
    FSA Current Status: Appointed Representative – Former
    FSA permissions: None

    As of today Plantation Capital plc have removed the Porta Verde footer mentioned in my post above. It was clearly misleading and appeared to suggest that Plantation Capital plc had authorization from the FSA to conduct investment activities.

    They do not.

    So if I am wrong please tell us all which UK FSA regulated counterpart company APC/APS is part of or connected with.

    We are all very eager to know.

    • Jeffrey says

      Anom and Joe,

      It is clearly understood that both of you are not commodities savvy enough. MAS/FSA only authorized/regulated futures and securities for your informations. Assets (crops) commodities do not fall into any of this categories hence do not even need any regulations at all. They are businesses and not investment companies. As what you might not know, Many commercial plantations in the world are not regulated and need not be regulated by any government’s bodies and they are supplying harvested products to buyers. Timbers and Gliricidia for examples, are bought by commercial companies, governments and developers worldwide after they are harvested. Agarwood is one of them.

      It’s being foolish to argue that any companies who are not regulated by MAS/FSA is not a legitimate or as what you guys so-called scam companies. As what i have mentioned, I am not an employee of APS or JSI and have more than 15 years of experience in this commodities industry hence know what is the actual businesses for those trade. I have bought and invested with APC because i chose to believe what they (APC) are doing after they have answered all my questions pertaining to actual forestry management as i have done all this for the past years.

      Any products or companies regulated by MAS/FSA doesn’t guaranteed they will make money for investors out there. Lehman brothers is one good example! needn’t me say anymore.

      I am not here to debate with any of you guys and will not go into any argument with peoples who know nothing about commodities. It sounds really stupid to do so trying to make you guys understand how actual crops (commodities) do their businesses in this trade. Just for your information, I believe you guys do know what unit trusts are and most banks do sell agroforestry or agricultural funds in the banks. Fund managers from fund houses chose their agroforestry products from commercial plantations out there who are in fact not regulated by your so-called MAS/FSA or equivalent or whatever, but those commercial plantations plant and grow crops and supply commodities-products to buyers who needs them.

      Most singaporean only know about Insurance, unit trusts, stocks and shares. Oh! what else? Gold and properties too.

      Just to give you guys a little more educations pertaining to commodities and my own researches. Plantation Capital in UK is a PLC company if you know what PLC (really) means. PC plc and APC have agroforestry funds which is currently sold to institutions, high net-worth investors and accredited investors and the fund is a sub-funds of SICAV-SIF (Amiri Shariah Platform Fund) listed in Luxembourg and is managed by Apex Funds Services (the 2nd largest funds houses and administration in the World).

      Quote of the Day:

      Alright, I think i have taught the juniors lots of stuffs today and no more. Chose to believe what you believe but do not advise others what you are not familiar with.

  65. Jeffrey says

    Oh, Anom and Joe….forgotten to answer your question pertaining to PC pls regulated by FSA. FSA has removed PC plc recently doesn’t make PC plc a con company as agroforestry is fall under UCIS which is not futures or securities, hence had them removed. That doesn’t make PC plc a scam company. If all commercial plantations in the world need MAS/FSA recognitions in order to prove they are genuine, then you guys will have no rice to eat today cos they can’t plant and grow wheats, bamboos, watermelons, teaks and many others anymore.

    Period!

  66. Jeffrey says

    Anyway, this is only to be my last post talking to the smart alec here. Agricultural is unique in its own and have their own overseeing regulations and organizations. so how much do you know about agricultural? how much do you know about commodities? Do you know what CITES is? What ITTO is? and what FSC is? and what do they do? If you guys do not know, maybe you guys shall just stick to your own rice bowl (insurance, for examples) and advise others on what you guys think you are an expert on.

    Are you one of those guys who just simply enrolled some easy modules like M1, M5,M6,M8, M9, and HI from SCI/IBF and passed some insurances and easy securities papers or ChFc certifications and now acting as an experts to advise others not related to what you guys have been taught. Or are you one of those who simply read up lots of articles and forums and pretending to be an experts after that? Do you guys even have CAIA certifications? or any professional knowledge on agricultural/commodities? Any hand-on experiences? Which crops grow natively in which countries? which climate, how long, what soils are suitable? and how it is being harvest? how a managed plantations operation different compared to those in the wild? if not, Maybe you guys shall just stick to selling and advising on insurances and ILP will do.

    If you are interested to learn more about agricultural and all the legitimate commercial plantations in the world. Here is a book which is “The International Timberland Ownership & Investment Review 2011, 6th Edition” published by the world renowned publisher yearly on all the plantations in the world. The book is expensive but you will gain a lot of insight pertaining to the agricultural industry worldwide.

    http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/1938113/the_international_timberland_ownership_and

    Good Luck!

    • anom says

      Dear Jefferey,

      Your claims seem to be contradictory. First you mentioned that Asia Plantation Capital or Plantation is listed by the FSA and you said that is one of the reasons why you invested with them.

      Then, when mentoined about the company Porta Verde, you seemed to have mocked those who commented by saying that they have no idea what they were talking about.

      Once it was proven, that the company, is not authorised, you start a whole new debate claiming the fact that they NOW do not need to as of their nature of business

      and a whole other thing about the whole business, lehman brothers, being regulated.

      Its hard to find out our point.

      Nobody said that the business that they do is illegittimate.

      its only the investment scheme that they are selling to people in Singapore and Malaysia is not legitimate.

      Anyone can open an investment company claiming this and that, but what happens when / if the company goes bust. You talked so much about the industry.

      I think, apart from the fact that you are an expert in this business. I also think you should try to become an expert in reading and answering questions.

      As of now, you have not been able to any of the questions posted by me or some of the other users here.

      Anyway, since you have invested your money in this company i would think it would be your right to defend where your money is.

      You keep using all this words like CITES, ITTO and FSC.

      Yes i know what it is and what are these organisations for.

      However, your investment which we are talking about in particular here HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

      Why dont you give them more of your money , and i guess in 7 years time or if you have your early exit as you claimed, come back to this forum and laugh at everyone over here about your claims and then perhaps, since you claim that most of us here are amatuers, we will then take it back.

      Plantation Capital is not an investment company as a whole. Asia Plantation Singapore, and the malaysian couterpart, sells this as an investment to gullibale people like you with the greed of making millions in the future.

      I may not have trade expertise of yours.

      But what you dont know is the people that youre dealing with.

      Maybe in 7 years time, you could sit with those whom bought land from their previous establisment Jardin Smith International and laugh all the way to the bank with your cash returns.

      Or , you could sell your trees to those who bought land from the same people before.

      Either way, youd still win.

      You claim that you are not working for Asia Plantation Singapore – however, as an investors, some of the questions here would probably raise your awareness of seeking for the right investment guide.

      They did the same thing to people who bought land citing all sorts of rubbish from the authorities and such. They are doing the same thing over here as well.

      When i went to the seminar, i was offered a trip to the plantation in thailand. Even more convincing. But at the end of the day, somebody would have to pay for all those costs.

      And if you did take up that offer.

      Not bad for a cooool 30,000 SGD trip

      At least in 7 years time – you would have made something.

      On another note – if you have not done this :

      Please READ YOUR CONTRACT THROUGHLY.

      I am beginning to understand why these sort of companies still arise despite all the news….

      its made and designed for people like you.

      I am still convinced that you are an employee defending Asia Plantation Singapore because, you keep harping on different things when ever something new is asked and no questions are answered.

      Similiar to what they were doing to those who bought land.

      Well… all we can do is JUST WAIT, since you claim that you have invested, if that is true….. then we will shall wait at your expense.

      • Jeffrey says

        Hi Amatuer,

        Firstly, my posts above were not contradictory, but just that you do not understand how agricultural companies work. PC plc used to be an appointed representative authorized by Porta Verde which is regulated by FSA, but that doesn’t permit or allow the plantation company to sell direct to investors using SIPP. All investments using SIPP must go thru IFA in UK, unless you are using cash.

        i bought the investment mainly because they (APC) have a global presence, knowing exactly what they are doing and also PC is a PLC company. Please read the book i posted above. From the above posts, i can see that you are avoiding all my researches posted above with genuine and evidents that APC is a legitimate commmercial plantation.

        I can seriously feel that your hatre for JSI, hence keep attacking their way of selling but what i am dealing with is APC, and not JSI. Can you please kindly show me the prove and evident that such an investment scheme is illegitimate in Singapore?

        For your information, I have invested in agarwood and its product has something to deal with CITES which apparently i feel that you knew nothing about it. From my knowledge and conversation with APS. There are 2 offices in Singapore. Once is the main office which is the actual APS, and another is the one JSI was situated. I have spoke to sales rep who is hired directly from APS, and not JSI counterpart. As i kept mentioned from the above posts. Speak to the right person and you will find all the answers. I saw one of the post posted by the management from APS management and why don’t you call them direct or go down to their office and find out what is the differences between APS and JSI?

        Yeah! I have the contract looked thru with my lawyer which is one of the largest corporate law firm in Singapore. The firm has 28 panels of lawyers dealing with all sort of business especially off-shore banks and companies. Oh ya….APC is one of their clients, and so does many other foreign banks. The law firm is Tan Peng Chin LLC. Check it out if you are keen to find out more.

        Well! you can keep accusing me as an employee of APS or JSI whatsoever, but that can’t deter the facts that you are an amatuer for commodities. Face it and i won’t laugh at you. Seriously!

  67. Jeffrey says

    Anyway, i already have my fair shares of contributions here and let the timids continue to become one and those who knows what i am sharing with decide what they shall do. For those who got burned by land-bankings before, i do pity your situations but that shall not be the factors to stop you from investing in other products. If you are extremely conversative and risk adverse. Insurance and Time deposits will be the one for you. Seek advice from the gurus above. The only products they will ask you to buy will be insurances, ILP, and Unit Trusts.

    Cheers!

    • anom says

      Dear Jeffrey,

      Tan Peng Chin is also Asia Plantation Singapore’s own lawyers , whom probably would have draughted out the contract for them.

      Coincidently its also your lawyers. Obviously you would get the best advice.

      And COINCIDENTLY, they were also Jardin Smith International’s Lawyers here in Singapore.

      I have nothing more to say. You can go on defending the company as per you claim of what they do.

      Theres is nothing more to speak about, if you are a Singaporean, kindly contact MAS directly and they will advise you.

      If youre a malaysian, kindly contact SSM as they will also assist you.

      If youre in the UK, kindly contact FSA.

      I think its best the experts give you advice

      instead of people like US.

      By the way, MAS & SSM is on their tails soon and it will be in time…..

      Yours truly,

      Amateur.

      • Jeffrey says

        Dear Amateur,

        I know you are speakless now and start to talk nonsense, avoiding all my questions and evidents i have mentioned above. That’s fine. One word of advise to you. It’s always advise to provide evidents and support your claim when you want to defame a company. I am not gonna talk so much about JSI as i have no connection or dealing with them whatsoever. The hatre you had for them if you have invested with them before. It’s defamation if you are going to advise and talk about negative things about APC without supporting your claims. It’s baseless anyway though JSI is selling products for APC now. It’s obvious that your confrontation are all towards JSI doing no matter what they are selling. Well! i will pity you on that.

        A commercial/corporate/company contract of course must consult a corporate lawyer and Tan Peng Chin is one of the best and they will be able to give us the best advise.

        Based on what you wrote above. It is another defamation to Tan Peng Chin LLP law firm that they are in this business with them. Seems like you have no knowledge about law, business/corporate law and how foreign companies did their business if they want to set up an office in a foreign country. Just a basic knowledge for you. All foreign companies, banks and other companies who wish to set up a local office must/will consult a commercial/corporate lawyers to handle local registration related to the law and regulations for them with registration office. Obviously, a contract must be draft out by a lawyer from a law firm.

        Tan Peng Chin LLC is an established and reputatable corporate law firm in Singapore and is one of the largest and most foreign banks are their clients. Please kindly read their website or go to their office to confront them if they are scam too. See whether you will get sue for defamation.
        By mentioning above that Tan Peng Chin LLC will definitely help APC is a defamation of their work and ethical. It’s all based on contents of the contract, not who is their clients unless you are telling me APC owns Tan Peng Chin LLC.

        I am a Singaporean and i won’t go to MAS as it’s not under their scope of duties for commercial plantations who is doing genuine business, planting trees and other crops, supplying harvested products to buyers in the world.

        Something to share. Some of the big banks and fund houses are selling agroforestry funds, for Institutions, HNW individuals, Accredited Investors which includes APC’s plantations and their by-products worldwide, as part of their portfolios.

        MAS is on their tails soon and this is another baseless comment.

        Yeah! You have indeed no more to talk about. Take Care!

        Jeffrey

  68. Joe P says

    http://www.brudirect.com/index.php/Local-News/authorities-gather-evidence-from-jardin-smith-international.html

    Jardin Smith offices raided in Brunei. Report also mentions the shutdown notice issued to JSI in Brunei.

    Bandar Seri Begawan – Personnel from the Commercial Crime Investigation Division, together with Enforcement Unit of Autoriti Monetari Brunei Darussalam (AMBD), yesterday conducted a raid on Jardin Smith International, located on the first floor of the Orchid Garden Hotel in Berakas.

    An officer of the Commercial Crime Investigation Division said, “We acted upon a complaint made under Section 6 (1) of the Mutual Funds Order, 2001.”

    During the raid, evidence in the form of documents, computers, agreements as well as business materials related to the matters were confiscated and taken to the police headquarters to allow for further investigation. The officer added that the company had been issued a shutdown notice earlier.

    • Steve F says

      I hope the Brunei authorities and the Singapore MAS are sharing information on Jardin Smith

  69. phua choo kang says

    Dear Jeffrey

    “Just to give you guys a little more educations pertaining to commodities and my own researches. Plantation Capital in UK is a PLC company if you know what PLC (really) means.”

    “i bought the investment mainly because they (APC) have a global presence, knowing exactly what they are doing and also PC is a PLC company”

    What is so great that PC is a PLC company, Jeffrey ? PLC = public limited company, and anybody can form a PLC, the only difference between Pte Ltd (Private Limited) and PLC (Public Limited) is only the number of shareholders, Pte Ltd minimum is 2, while PLC minimum is 40 ( I think), so what is so great about APC being a PLC company ? kind of doubt that you know the true meaning of PLC why else would you glorify the PLC part…..then again you are the one who has a Master in Finance and 15 years of investment experience…..

    you also mentioned that “Yeah! I have the contract looked thru with my lawyer which is one of the largest corporate law firm in Singapore. The firm has 28 panels of lawyers dealing with all sort of business especially off-shore banks and companies. Oh ya….APC is one of their clients, and so does many other foreign banks. The law firm is Tan Peng Chin LLC. Check it out if you are keen to find out more.”

    Now answer me this Jeffrey : it is plain that Tan Peng Chin LLC who acted for APC could not act for you to look through the very contract they have drafted for APC due to conflict of interest (can’t act for 2 opposing parties to a contract, basic law i must say), so either you are lying, or Tan Peng Chin LLC are in breach of their professional duty to avoid conflict of interest….so which one is it ?

    • Jeffrey says

      Dear Mr. Phua,

      I am sorry if you are another one trying to act as though you know a lot. It’s nothing great being a PLC, but it’s something different being a PLC for a genuine company. If you are another one (Smart Alec)..please provide proves and evidents to support your claims if you wanna discredit APC.

      As for the contract. Yes, it’s a conflict of interest if i am to engage the same lawyer to read the contract, but my friend is a lawyer in Tan Peng Chin LLC and he read thru it based on friendship and he knows the corporate lawyer who did the contract for APC, and that was a different thing hence no conflict of interest is involved. Simple as that. It is another silly argumentation to go into such debate with you pertaining to APC and Tan Peng Chin LLC.

      Why don’t you just show me evidents to support your claims instead? Talking is cheap if no evidents to support it. So are you one of them too? I will not be replying anymore if you can’t support your claims, but for arguement purposes.

  70. Steve F says

    Jeffrey

    Lets cut through the crap and stop the silly name calling. .

    An investment with Plantation Capital or Asia Plantation Capital has a very low level of liquidity meaning its hard to get your money out before it matures. The investment will almost certainly never mature in the way APC forecast.. Who is going to buy it from you if it does not mature ? On that basis logically an investment with APC carries a very high risk that you will lose most or all of your money.

    APC sales agents will tell you you can resell your holding but they earn their money and have a vested interest in selling new holdings. You are holding something that is almost impossible to sell and will almost certainly never mature.

    Don’t worry about agents, promoters, lawyers or regulators or abbreviations because they will do nothing for you except charge you fees and claim innocence of wrong doing when it all fails.

    I don’t know if you are a genuine investor or a commission earning salesperson but you have not delivered any new information since your FSA claims were destroyed and you did a 180 degree turnaround. so you might want to find some facts before you post again.

    To be clear again Plantation Capital is not authorised in any form by the UK FSA for investment activities. There is no protection from any regulator for this investment.

  71. Jeffrey says

    Steve,

    yeah! let’s cut all the crap and stop all the silly claim as what you had mentioned…btw, are you another financial adviser or someone who knows only insurance, UT, and some other traditional investment products which most singaporeans know and trying to based on what you know to advise ppls on things you don’t know? Hope you are not another smart alec here. but based on what you wrote below.

    “”” To be clear again Plantation Capital is not authorised in any form by the UK FSA for investment activities. There is no protection from any regulator for this investment.”””

    i knew that you are just another typical singaporean who only know about MAS, MAS, MAS. regulated, regulated, regulated… Frankly speaking…if you need protection from regulator,..you shall just stick to invest what you know and believe. (securities, and futures which MAS regulated)

    I think that the debate has gone out of hand from here as what you guys had been debating…(which was not a real investment) There are many other (profitable) investments out there which are not and need not be regulated as it is an business supplying entities.

    “””An investment with Plantation Capital or Asia Plantation Capital has a very low level of liquidity meaning its hard to get your money out before it matures.”””

    A low liquidity investments like some others (Structure Deposit, Properties and other investments products) which are also a mid to long term investment horizon carries different risk levels (low risk, mid or high risk) As an investment point of view. If your investment profile needs lots of liquidity, then this product will not be suitable for you, so does a 5 years SD, and some other mid to long term investment products on the market. Investors who plan for their investments will diversify their investment portfolio into short, mid and long term investments, so one have to know their own investment horizon and risk profile. Btw, Trees need time to grow and harvest before it turn into profit, so you can’t expect immediate return. A Teak investment will need at least 15 to 20 years.

    “””The investment will almost certainly never mature in the way APC forecast..”””

    Are you an expert in forecasting too? Please kindly provide evidence to support your claim?

    “””Who is going to buy it from you if it does not mature ?””””

    Are you an expert in commodities, agricultural or crops??? Please kindly provide evidence to support your claim???

    On that basis logically an investment with APC carries a very high risk that you will lose most or all of your money.””””

    Base on what basic logic? Please provide evidence to support your claim too?

    Dear Steve, i am very disappointed and feel disgrace being a singaporean like you guys as people like you only know how to talk without supporting your claims. Before you want to post here again, i would advice you to find out more about agricultural investments before you made yourself another fool here again.

    • Steve says

      Wrong again. I’m English. I stand by all of my statements. Clearly I don’t need to provide anything further. Your support for this investment is enough proof that nobody should touch it.

      • Jeffrey says

        hahahaha…..whoever and wherever you are. Please provide evidences to support your claim! If you can’t….just keep your mouth shuts and stop embarrass yourself as an english too.

  72. Jeffrey says

    *Teak Investment – typically 15 to 20 years.

    1) Does it require any government regulatory?
    Ans: NO (If commercial plantations who grow rice plantations also need to be regulated then you
    guys will have no rice to eat – There are investors who invest in rice too, so does other crops)

    2) If it is not regulated, does it mean all commercial plantations are illegal?
    Ans: NO

    2) Liquidity?
    Ans: NO, and it is a long term investment. Investors who require liquidity of their fund will not be
    suitable.

    3) Risk level? Any insurance coverages?
    Ask the seller (some commercial plantation companies will provide insurance for their investments)

    4) Will it make money?
    Ans: YES

    5) Why it still make money since it is not regulated?
    Ans: Common Sense. If you don’t have common sense. Ask me or ask the agricultural expert.

  73. Simple minded guy says

    Simple rule of thumb: if not comfortable, don’t touch…
    Logical thing to do: check if people actually made money, if not, don’t touch…
    Educated thing to do: check company paid up capital and directors on ACRA, read their annual reports, etc.. If not comfortable, don’t touch…

  74. Joe P says

    @Jeffrey quote
    “4) Will it make money?
    Ans: YES”

    I think the answer is absolutely no chance at all but perhaps you convince us with proof and not ranting.?

    The Risk level is huge, multiple parties are involved in multiple countries and there is no chance of compensation. The UK FSA is now concerned enough to propose regulation of these investments. So your Plantation scheme might be different but I don’t see anything on the website or here to prove it is.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2d8322e2-edf6-11e1-8d72-00144feab49a.html#axzz27YvWiLkj

    http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation/product_news/saving_investments/overseas_investment/index.shtml

    Moderator could I suggest a separate thread for Plantation schemes and scams scams. Not sure what these comments have to do with JSI except that they have been proposing investments that deliver no returns either. Or perhaps a single post which summarizes this thread as Jeffrey thinks these investments are amazing, everyone else thinks they are a scam.

  75. jeffrey says

    Hi Joe,

    You think, you think….Dude, stop thinking and start showing me evidences……Seems like you are just another smart alec here. Whether a company (especially plantations or others) is regulated or not regulated by MAS/FSA doesn’t mean they are a scam. Pathetic Singaporean like you or many others love to misuse words like nobody business, unless you can show evidence that they are really scam. Also, please kindly give name of other commercial plantations in this world that plant (teak, agarwood, mazes, mahogany, Gliricidia, and bamboo etc..), which is regulated by FSA/MAS or equivalent? Commercial Plantations are business supplying entities that plant and harvest after many years. Commercial plantations, private investors profit after crops are harvest. Only private EQUITY funds need to be regulated by FSA/MAS as they are equity, and not actual assets. So it depends on whether one is investing in actual assets or just the equity.

    Asia Plantation Capital’s website

    http://www.asiaplantationcapital.com/company/about-asia-plantation-capital

    Plantation Managers & Advisors

    The Asia Plantation Capital Group act as plantation managers and advisors to several Private Equity Funds that focus on the forestry, farming and renewable energy sectors. Plantation assets currently owned and/or under management on behalf of private clients are in excess of US$250 million. In addition to this, APC also manage agroforestry projects on behalf of funds, several of which are over US$50 million in size.

    **Noted: APC is a typical commercial plantations, so don’t expect to capital vs return like what you normally see in the bank or investment’s websites. It’s common sense….!

  76. KPO says

    hi jeffrey,

    before i start, let me just say that i’m no investment guru like yourself.

    secondly, i know nuts about plantation investments.

    i personally have been to many many JSI presentations. both with my bro-in-law (BIL) and myself.

    my BIL is actually a client of JSI. he got 2 plots (their first plot) way back about 6-7 years ago if i’m not wrong.

    i also went to JSI’s presentation about 2-3 years back. but i did not invest caused i think it’s too goo to be true and i’m a little more conservative unlike my BIL (he’s a private banker)

    i’ve also accompanied him to a few of JSI’s event. their updating and all.

    i’ve been to at least 3 updates. always saying the same thing. so much so that i can also do an update for u.

    he has never complained that he isn’t reaping the rewards yet. he knew what he was getting into when he invested. it has been more than 1 year since the ‘promised’ date.

    he was also shown some kinda apartment sharing scheme in Phuket.

    and also plantation in sri lanka amongst others.

    now the funny part. my BIL’s CRM is now also working for this plantation company.

    the director is also the same ang moh.

    the ‘owner’ is also the same ang moh.

    when i asked his CRM, she said that they are diversifying. so JSI and the plantation company is basically the same company?

    so i may not know much but i guess i know enough to know that they are the same company under the management and even maybe ownership.

  77. Jeffrey says

    Dear KPO,

    From my own research and talking to APC before i invested with them. APC is a standalone company with different boss of APS’s boss. APS is only the sales and marketing arm of APC. The contract is with APC and not APS.

  78. KPO says

    dear jeffrey,

    apologies, but what does APS stand for? are their office the one at china square area?

  79. Jeffrey says

    Dear KPO,

    Yeah. APS stands for Asia Plantation Singapore…..is a sales and marketing arm of Asia Plantation Capital. JSI is selling APC’s products using the name of APS. APS based in China Square Central is different from the one based in Suntec which are staffs of JSI.

    • KPO says

      dear Jeffrey,

      so JSI is like APC’s marketing agent? i saw alot of JSI’s staff selling APC’s products. and also a lot of APS staffs are former JSI staffs too, esp their their managers …

      • Jeffrey says

        Dear KPO,

        From my extensive researches and internal sources…JSI is the marketing agent for APC, before APS is fully setup by APC, hence you will see lots of JSI’s staffs selling APC’s products. APS has their own sales team and managers not from JSI…..of course, you will see most JSI’s staffs quit JSI and join APS in the end and that’s perfectly normal in any industry. That’s why i also make it to the point to speak direct with the managers if need be to avoid mis-selling.

        • Jeffrey says

          More importantly, as i have mentioned in my previous post….the contract is with APC, and not APS, so i am not so concerned about who is selling the products on behalf on APC, but of course…speaking to the Senior Managers of APS is a must to make sure i got all my questions i want based of my professional knowledge in the industry.

          • Jane says

            Maybe because JSI is not having good business that’s why staff choose to go over to work at APC, Their land banking stuff sounds like a scam and people are becoming smarter nowadays not to be cheated. There are many other investment products that can beat JSI’s returns, provided that they really give returns to investors.

  80. Jeffrey says

    By the way, i have lots of stuffs to post here (continue) from my above posts…but this stupid site is giving me problems from posting all of them…Please be patience!

  81. Jeffrey says

    Continue from my above posts….

    Shariah Board
    The Shariah Investment Platform: Amiri Capital
    http://www.amiricapital.com/

    Amiri Capital is an independent alternative investment adviser, delivering custom-made opportunities to clients, particularly from the GCC and Southeast Asia, through the identification and structuring of compelling investments. The firm has extensive experience across a broad spectrum of asset classes, including real estate and equities, and brings together financial expertise, entrepreneurship, flexibility and, where required, a thorough knowledge of Islamic finance.

    *The Sustainable Resources Fund is a sub-fund to the Amiri Shariah Investment Platform Fund managed by Amiri Capital.

  82. Jeffrey says

  83. Jeffrey says

    There are in fact more press release but this site doesn’t allow me to paste all of them which i do not understand why…but i am sure you can find many others if you search in google pertaining to the funds. Many countries, fund houses and banks are launching agroforestry funds which is shariah compliant……

    I have far more information collected on the company and funds and related things thru my own contacts…

    Yeah…this is a JSI’s corner, and it got nothing to do with APC. we shall stop here. To continue….reading the post, we will continue from here…

    http://www.martinlee.sg/investing-in-trees-and-animals/

  84. Jane says

    The Best thing to do is actually not invest in JSI nor APC products. Just invest in bond funds, like those you can buy from FSM.

    Because, since its not regulated and they can’t show proper proof of returns. And land banking in UK WILL NOT be developed. (Which means your money is already spent by their sales people)

    If you really love trees or crops, just plant it in your backyard. Don’t give away your money to invest in something from a company (APC) that is linked to another company (JSI) same owner.. who cheats people money.

  85. Meng says

    Invested in the Birmingham plot way backin 07 or 08. Till date, still no news yet except recieved a letter from the UK Land office confirming my name & address.

    Read up this thread becos i was searching for Asia Plantation Capital & shock to see this thread. No wonder, I saw so many familiar faces JS in the APC. Keep my finger cross & pray hard its not a scam cos I just paid the money for investing 100 trees half an hour ago.

  86. ken says

    Has anyone invested in the new project by JSI in UK land banking Eaton Bray, Bedfordshire would like to seek your comment. Would like to know from the previous investors about the return from the time frame given (example: 5-8 years) by JSI

    • Joe P says

      None of the UK land banking sites offered by Jardin Smith have obtained planning permission. Some have been offered for more than 8 years. So no returns have been provided to investors in Jardin Smith UK land banking except for the company owners. I would assume the same for the site in Bedfordshire. Jardin Smith talk proudly about a site being approved in Analby but that was not a land banking scheme it was a redevelopment of an existing built site and very small.

  87. says

    Strongly advised against “investing” with them. If you’ve chance upon this site, it’s a lucky sign that you are doing some research before investing (I hope?)

    My friend is the early batch of investors in one of their early projects in 2007, till now not a single news from them! I really don’t know why people still keep throwing money to them where not a single one of their projects is realized.

    Obviously they have no track records to back up their claims but surprisingly, the authorities have not caught up with them yet but time will tell.

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