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Hello Noises above the Voices,
I am on holiday with my family, but if you are interested to contact me you are always free to do so. If you think that you are God’s gift to humanity, please let Genneva GV know that the uncles and aunties who had “packed in” will be very happy if GGV can “unfreeze” their money by CNY even if Santa cannot make it for Xmas.
If you want to troll, you troll;
If you want to provide informative contributions, the forumers will appreciate;
If you keep repeating your rude behavoir and vulgarity, it will only reflect on you and more importantly on the platform which makes you rich;
Your are an investors club where customers are buying gold to give you the 6 digit income and your club members include P. Lim, C. Tan, Sarawak’s local Jim Ron, and all those who are taking from SGV’s Senior Consultants who had not hit monthly sales of RM2.5 million and are contributing RM10,000 per pax per month to your enrichment fund.
Be constructive. Wishing you a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Wow! the poisonous, multiple-headed snake on OverDrive again despite on family vacation.
Jeffrey, we dare you bring this to the local press and have a group photographs with all these “park-in” uncles and aunties and let the press interview them.
Let BNM, MAS, and also the SC fro Hong Kong to observe. May be, miracles will be on your side.
Enough of your venom, rubbish and nonsense, Jeffrey!
Most of us already very tired with all your shameful theories by now.
Do it right, do it big, do it truthfully – No more suppose, no more assume and no more theories.
May everybody have a great decade to start with the Y2011!
ReplyWe believe we have done the due diligence by talking to a lot of people outside this forum, be it those from Genneva or otherwise in order to get a balanced view. Have you?
Honestly, have you done that yourself?
We dig & dig and we observe – your harp & harp.
We speak, you bark!
We are trying to get hold of the perspective, you are trying to get hold of speculations and conspiracies.
We are trying to make sense and you are trying nonsense.
Aren’t that clear enough, you bitch!
ReplyWhy not get to the points? Whose points are those? Your’s or the investing public’s points? You gotta be very clear herein, bitch.
If you cannot hold your head straight and talk sense, you are certainly talking nonsense.
Not everybody could write as well and also as poisonous as both Jeffrey Lim and the bitchy you but that doesn’t means you got it right herein.
Most simply refrain from entertaining you?
We – well,we choose to educate you and embarrass you in the process. Got it?
Reply
Hey Noise man,
Most Bloomberg readers do not troll and use rude language, but you have the distinction of being different.
Just get to the point :
1. Did DYMM launch the Genneva Malaysia Syariah Compliant platform? TDM does not count as DYMM though he may harbour intention.
2. Were there senior Cabinet Member at the said launch?
3. Did the Minister of Finance attended the last SGV annual dinner?
4. Do you honestly believe that when the new customer comes in lesser and lesser numbers and the price of gold stop climbing the way it did in the last 5 years, the SGV/Genneva Malaysia platform is sustainable?
5. Did Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd. have enough funds to pay off all those “park-in” customers should BNM lift the suspension and unfreeze the accounts? Did Genneva have the gold which the “park-in” customers had bought.
Instead of using veiled threats, foul language and sprouting all sorts of nonsense and venom, please contribute to the forumer’s enlightment. Thank you. The Uncles & Aunties will all appreciate your honest reply and may even raise your 6 digit monthly income by a few notches.
ReplyLet’s get this back on track …
Holding cash is certainly for short-term liquidity.
However, over time, inflation creeps in. In simple term, Cash is not for the mid- nor the long-term – only for the short-term liquidity. Cash belongs to the short-term category.
Thus, we ought to re-distribute our wealth in other forms that could hedge against inflation, esp. when we have a mid-term or a long-term objective. In simple term, we gotta convert them into other forms that belong to the next two categories, i.e. the mid-term category and also the long-term category.
Hence, properties. Gold is just another alternative. And many other forms of vehicles too. These are for the mid-term and the long-term category. Full stop, period!
Then there comes the art of asset allocation – certain % here & certain percentage there. Then we need to re-balance them from time to time.
Simply put, we put some cash in for the short term, put some Gold in for the mid-term and put some properties in for the long-term.
What are we gonna do when the property developer folds or run away after soon after we bought the said property? Do we straight away sell off that property right away and count our losses in the difference?
What will be our losses or risks – we still have that property at hand, don’t we? Most will keep for appreciation before they sell it off again. In simple term, most will keep it in the mid- to long-term category before they convert back to Cash, which belongs to the short-term category.
Yeah, after all, this is for long-term. Why suddenly the urge to convert back to short-term (or Cash)? Think again. That’s because we were financially-illiterate and in addition, we have the “outright malicious” Jeffrey Lim doing his very best to confuse & to mislead everybody herein. Damn him!
Let’s move on to the mid-term thingy, shall we?
Here we use Gold for the mid-term. Very fortunately, we got ourselves some really good agents from Genneva to explain to us very thoroughly what are all these about.
We use Gold for the mid- to long-term wealth preservation.
What if the company folds and run away right thereafter we bought the said Gold bars or Gold wafers? Well, what are our risks or potential losses? That’s mostly the issue that’s going on & on in this forum. Isn’t it?
In that unfortunate event, we still have the genuine Gold bar / Gold wafer with us. Don’t we? Think again …
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Q – But, but, but if we are to sell it off iimmediately .. (HOLD IT!)
A – Again, why the urge to sell it off immediately? Isn’t it for the mid- to long-term category?
Q – But, but, but if we are to sell it off immediately, we are going to lose some 20.0% to 25.0% off the market value. Is that right?
A – WRONG! DAMN WRONG!
– Why convert it back to the short-term category in all the sudden?
Q – Oh, we gotta sell off mah, esp. when the company runs away.
A – Well, what about selling off your properties when the property developers fold or run away?
Q – Oh, that’s different, you know …
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Hmm … have we not gone through that before?
Are we clearer now? Have we got the perspective finally? We believe we do – thanks to some of these very dedicated agents of Genneva. Well done to them!
ReplyHey, Noise man, you are getting on without the name calling and a little more forthcoming in volunteering information instead of asking rude questions. Well done.
BTW both the Anti-Money Laundering and the Anti Terrorist Acts had been there. It is just that BNM will not go after goldcos with the Anti Terrorist element of the Act because they do not see goldcos financing or being financed by terrorists lah. Even the BNM statement after the raids on the goldcos did not mention the anti terrorist part.
Since Niseman is obviously an insider, maybe you can confirm whether DYMM did or did not launch the Syariah Compliant platform of Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd at the local hotel on 15/12/2010. Also, maybe at the same time, confirm that senior BNM and Government dignitaries were present. If my memory serves me right, Samudra announce that the Finance Minister was attending their last annual dinner, but as it turn out, only a Ministry official was present. The Government seems to want to distance itself from such business for whatever reason.
If your memory serves you right, you made lots of nonsense in your commentaries that are either irrelevant & outright ignorant. Are you so prejudiced or are you so badly poisoned by Jeffrey Lim to have such a narrow perspective, making yourself some kind of judge / jury in the process?
BTW, which school you came from? Did you finish your school or perhaps, were you properly schooled in the first place?
Your reasonings were way, way off track. Did Jeffrey Lim forget to advise you on it? Or did he abandon you already.
You might have been naive to think of yourself being good
ReplyFor your understanding, we are a group of investors who share knowledge among our community and we decided to visit this forum and to write herein using only one single ID instead of multiple ID’s.
Of course, Jeffrey Lim comes on top of the list of smart alacks that we ever knew existed. He’s definitely determined to confuse the investing public as though he’s having a very heavy grudge against Samudra GV or Gene-Nee-Waa. Next comes you – the hopelessly off-track & prejudiced, following his every foot-step now.
Have you not learned anything regarding economy, finance and financial literacy? Poor you. Why don’t you go back to school and learn? Don’t be another smart alack like Jeffrey Lim.
What do you got to offer herein besides venom, stupidities and your utter foolishness that are going to be a legacy when we all re-visit this forum again, IN RETROSPECTIVE when the day comes?
Talk is cheap – show yourself up to some causes that you were seemed to be championing some time back and make yourself useful in the process. And please always, always research on your homeworks before you embarrass yourself further herein.
ReplyDear Gold King,
Sorry, Agong wasn’t at the launch but was held up overseas and didn’t manage to let SGV know in advance. If you mean my agong (grandpa), yes lah and he came back all excited about his brother TDM officiating and telling all and sundry the greatness of owning gold. But again, did you notice that, he did not specifically say which platform.
The Gold wholesaler did not want to sell directly to SGV not due to payment concerns but due to other concerns.
I do not remember any endorsement by BNM. Those companies already raided by BNM was not due to the gold trading platform but due to suspicion of contravention of AMLA and BAFIA.
Dear Oops, I don’t know KC Liew, but I heard he is on leave. Wow, on leave and still on over-drive. So all the spin about being a member of gold buying group is just a spin and my earlier pinning of him being in the 6 digit monthly earning group is on target. Mr. Liew, if you are the Noise man, I suggest that you enjoy your holidays with your family instead of getting distracted by all these uncles and aunties who are putting money into your pocket or rather SGV even when you and your Mentor Philip Lim are away on holidays. With such noble souls putting their life savings into the SGV schemes, your earning will last you 3 generations (at least) even if you follow your mentor to retirement in a couple of years’ time (If SGV is still around to serve the Uncles and Aunties).
There is a growing community within the investing public that is growing weary with nonsense-spilling, cocky smart alack who suddenly seems so expert in this forum.
The entire community would also like to warn Lee Mei May to do her homework and be relevant with what she brought to the table.
Perhaps, she should also go for holiday with her family instead of going on OverDrive herein this forum.
BTW, don’t you aware nowadays that AMLA is called AMLAFTA? Didn’t you do your homework?
ReplyThe uncles and aunties are not worry even of Samudra-GV is not around to serve them. You know what?
They have both Jeffrey Lim the “outright malicious” and you the noisy-bitch cum “hopelessly ignorant” to serve them anyway. Need they ask for more?
Please make sure both you and the “outright malicious” stand for these uncles and aunties and have a press conference to educate the public and to advocate your very noble acts.
Perhaps both of you may even earn yourself a NOBEL PRIZE each.
Yeah, who knows?
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In case any of u doesn’t know,well I think most of u don’t know, Mr.Noise man here is Kc Liew,if u know who he is? How I know? He has a habit of calling women whom he didn’t like a ‘bitch’.
ReplyWhy not call yourself “Ouch!”
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Many are destined to reason wrongly; others, not to reason at all; and others, to persecute those who do reason. – Voltaire
Where do you belong if not here?
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“It is too bad that stupidity isn’t painful.” – amberella Anton LaVey quotes. “Stupidity should be painful.”
Ouch! What do you think?
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Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. – Plato (BC 427-BC 347) Greek philosopher.
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“It is wiser to find out than to suppose” – Mark Twain quotes
Did you ASS-U-ME, and make an ASS out of YOU & Me?
ReplyOuch!
Great minds discuss IDEAS
Average minds discuss EVENTS
Small minds discuss PEOPLE
Where do you belong?
ReplyGenneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd Syariah Compliant programme supposed to be launched by DYMM Yang Di-Pertuan Agong at a local hotel while his Majesty is overseas. The absence of any significant dignatory from the Executive Branch of the Government or senior official of Bank Negara Malaysia (BNM) tells the story loud and clear. The has been who launch the programme is out to re-coup the losses suffered by his children’s “empire” and who is not adverse to “endorsing” any platform for personal gain (The Middle East Gold market?). Happy gold buying.
ReplyErr … Are all these lousy theories your’s and your’s alone?
Since when do you make yourself the commentator to each and every events that happened?
Or is it that you made yourself the interpreter to what’s going on?
Who have written any query on that subject to you seeking for your comments on DYMM or any other dignitaries for that matter? And are you just thinking out loud in written form and decided to put up in this forum in order to leave a shameful legacy in months and years to come?
ReplyJust do this …
Take out a coin, hold it between your fingers high up and examine both sides of the said coin.
Then write .. if you still cannot write anything that resemble a balanced view, you’re hopelessly prejudiced.
If you still insist to drive the discussion according to very narrow-focus viewpoints, you’re either dangerously mis-informed or just outright malicious.
Anyone who has a balanced and helpfully-relevant & relevantly-helpful opinions or comments to post herein?
Wishing everyone a happy new decade, not just a new year, in case you didn’t realize it …
Reply
Initially, there is a very big and famous company from oversea supply gold to Genneva…
Now they stop and dont want to have any relationship with Genneva.
Reason, the supplier also dont know how Genneva can pay back.
If this is so-called GUARANTEED and launch by Tun, Tun should advise KWSP to put all money in, all Malaysian benefited.
Ya…is Syariah….Officiated by Agong, endorsed by Bank Negara…
wah…all go invest….When the fund is very very huge….BNM send a proxy….say,” oh…this is illegal”… What can Agong do?
Actually they helping Malaysia to make money….take from the rich, give them some sweet….then…..errr….. Robin Hood…
Reply“Initially, there is a very big and famous company from oversea supply gold to Genneva…
Now they stopped and don’t have anything to do with Genneva.
Reason? A resigned staff of that very big and famous company form overseas that supply gold to Genneva has agreed to reveal it all in a phone interview after he read what was written in this forum and called it a blasphemous and blatant lie. He even called Gold King, … err .. ( too vulgar to mention )
According to this ex-staff, they lost the deal to supply after Genneva begun to source for the supply on their own, and found a brand new competitor in Genneva ever since then and in desperation, decided to smear the good will of the competitor through a forum like this one.
On the other hand, KWSP is regulated by the EPF Act and how could Tun advise KWSP to put all monies in? That speaks volume of the shallow knowledge in Gold King
At the same time, since when does BNM works through proxies?
And since when we Malaysians have Robin Hood? We don’t. We only have Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat and his other friends.
ReplyInitially, blah, blah, blah …
Eventually, blah, blah, blah …
What lies in-between are all your lies, you Bull-Shit King!
ReplyGreat minds discuss IDEAS
Average minds discuss EVENTS
Small minds discuss PEOPLE
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Then there are those who knows that they know,
and when they speak, they lead – Aha!
There are those who knows that they don’t know,
so they choose NOT to speak, for fear they may mislead – Hmm ..
Then, there are those who don’t even know that they don’t know,
YET they speak, and hence they mislead – Wow!
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Let’s see where do you belong,
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We have abundant of prejudices in the comments put forth by the “truly illiterates”, the “hopelessly-ignorants” as well as the “outright malicious” and their scams exposed by their very own revelations – their soon-to-be legacies.
There are so many other types of investment vehicles that people have lost chunks and chunks of money in comparisons but why the discussion in this forum only focused on Genn-nee-waa or any other wee-wee, waa-waa company that deals with Gold for that matter?
To write in forums like this one and to mislead the public, to plant wrong information and to instill, misplaced angers towards SGV / Genneva and also TO ROB THE INVESTING PUBLIC OFF of their precious opportunity to hedge against inflation and their quest to create wealth?
Have you not asked why these idiots just target SGV, Genneva, whatever the wee-wee, waa-waa (not only Genn-nee-waa) company for that matter and not the unit trust, the mutual funds, the forex, the properties investment, the stocks, the remisiers, even the property developers, etc.?
Why can’t and why don’t these ignorant folks (some are simply outright malicious) present their view points from BOTH THE FLIP SIDES OF A COIN before you hastily leave a “legacy of shame” of themself in this forum for everybody to eventually re-visit in RETROSPECTIVE, say in 6-months, 1-, 2- or 3-years from now?
Think again …
ReplySamudra GV may have a good business model or on the other hand they may not and that could be the reason they keep cutting down on the “rebate” and commissions. It is like a chameleon changing colours. Even their own gold supplier (a very reputable international company) does not want to deal directly with them for whatever reason and goes through a third party thus increasing their cost of gold which is then factored into their price issued by by their own Gold Bullion Enterpreneur Association of Malaysia (Gold BEAM). Then, they announce to all and sundry that the price set by Gold BEAM cannot be use by any others as the formula used to calculate it is “copyrighted” into their registration with SSM. What a lot of bullshit. Anyway, the price set is a rip off, in order to give you back your money in terms of rebate. With the price of gold going up, the customer is helping SGV to make money by trading in the gold to their “associate” company at the price of purchase. Their scheme only work under 2 conditions, viz.
1. New customers keep coming in;
2. The price of gold keeps going up and the customers keep balancing.
That is one of the reason SGV have stopped the 1 year programme since the price of gold is expected to go up by around 30% per year, maybe more and SGV fears that the customers will not be their “gold holder” but will sell the gold outside to better their return.
Customers and consultants does not have to “know” the Directors to feel their arrogence and need only to experience their practice, such as :
1. Changing the “rules” at mid-stream to suit themselves and having no standard operating procedure;
2. Using dubious reasons for cutting down on “rebates” and commissions;
3. Telling their own consultants and senior consultant that they can take it or can just resign with immediate effect, if they protest against changes affecting them and their customers;
4. Structure their commission scheme such as to make suckers of their “Senior Consultant”. A consultant qualifies to be a senior consultant (SC) with group sales of RMxxxxxxx and personal sales of RMxxxxxx, but the SC does not earn his SC commission of 04% (reduced from 0.6% previously) until the SC hits RM2.5m monthly sales as that commission goes back to his “upline”. Therefore until the SC hits the targetted RM2.5m, he gets nothing for the business brought in by the consultants in his down line.
It is therefore up to the consultants and customers to decide whether this chemaleon is their vehicle to maintain their “purchasing power” or is it too unstable to meet their needs.
Well done, bitch!
Please keep your comments coming. Perhaps, you should also start writing in the Bloomberg column, and also the BBC as well.
Are you sure you’re not barking up the wrong tree, fighting a losing war that’s not your war, or are you up to something stupid enough that you’re not even aware of doing it? are you that well-informed or are you that mis-informed? Are you damn sure you got every single one of your facts right? Hmm …
Your lengthy nonsense is just what we wanted, so please keep them coming. We shall examine them together, we shall unfold them together and we shall see what legacy / footprint that you’re trying to leave behind – to your satisfaction or utter embarrassment.
Are you sure your source of information is not tainted, biased or injected with a lethal dose of venom, nonsense + crabs?
Anyway, you are doing just fine at the moment. Just make sure you keep coming and keep writing, bitch!
Happy New decade to you, in case you didn’t realize it!
Reply
Oh, yes … but what’s your point?
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Great minds discuss IDEAS
Average minds discuss EVENTS
Small minds discuss PEOPLE
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Can you please clarify your points, in point-to-point format if at all possible? TQVM …
ReplyGo to the website and u will see this appear, account suspended,please contact billing dept. why? Company no money ar?
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I have made a check with BNM,So far SGV or Genneva M’sia has not yet obtain any license,thats because theres no such license yet for such gold business,factoring and leasing license was their attemp but as status wise in licensing is no different to any competitors out there,then comes the syariah.
Well, its just a thypical buy sell gold with hibah concept thats all.If u look at this legally,any goldco can do the same.Au Niaga can do this too if they want, Syariah doesnt mean full proof.
So the ultimate question here, since the directors in SGV are so cocky, are they and the company absolutely invincible?
An officer whom i spoke to in BNM said even til today there are quite a number of agents from SGV has complained to them on the disatisfaction of commision cut and they feel its a real nuisence. The bottomline here is,til now absolutely no one in the market is regulated,the best so far SGV can do is to report to BNM on the activity to deter AMLA allegations.And it seems it has made compulsay for SGV to do so because of the last record.
Any of u wants to validate on what i said here is true? Simple,just go check with some people at BNM.
ReplyPlease allow us to ask boldly minus the pleasantries.
Have you spoken to the Securities Commission, the Syariah Committee that scrutinize their Syariah program and the Prime Minister Office, i.e. besides BNM just to be more thorough, more detailed and leave no stone un-turned, figuratively speaking?
Why not you do that and enlighten all of us herein, we sincerely appreciate that.
If the said officer from BNM has entertained numerous calls on the agents’ complaints regarding the commission cuts, it speaks volume that BNM is fully aware of their existence, activities and even the “storms” within the company. Isn’t it so?
One last thing that you commented herein aroused our curiosity – how do you know the directors in SGV are so cocky? Have you met them? Have you spoken to them personally? As an agent or as an investor? Please enlighten …
ReplyDo you really think you’ve done enough?
Why not go the extra mile, and then enlighten us some more?
Please …
ReplyDefinitions of prejudice on the Web:
A prejudice is a prejudgement: i.e. a preconceived belief, opinion, or judgment made without ascertaining the facts of a case. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice
A predetermined judgment (based on faulty interpretation) made using wrong or distorted facts. This attitude, usually negative, is directed toward a person or group of people. Prejudiced thinking may result in acts of discrimination.
http://www.japanesecanadianhistory.net/glossary.htm
A judgment or opinion formed before the facts are known. In most cases, these opinions are founded on suspicion, intolerance, and the irrational hatred of other races, religions, creeds, or nationalities.
http://www.chgs.umn.edu/educational/witnesslegacyteacher/glossary.html
A preconceived attitude, opinion or feeling, usually negative, formed without adequate knowledge, thought or reason. Prejudicial thinking is often based on stereotypes.
http://www.holocaustcentermilwaukee.org/education/resources/terms.php
In short, are you being prejudice?
Reply
Hi all, i m Huang from Au-N,i m not a sales agent, i m a management staff, since my company were mentioned here,so i wont mind giive a little intro,i m not leaving any contact no nor email,if any of you intrested to invest ot be recruited,i guess you guys are smart enough to find our personnels. We are new in the market as you all know, We now offer rebates at 2.75% first year (promotion) there after will be at 2%, agents comm first year at 1% thereafter at 0.7%. We are in now working out an insurance plan foc for our clients with Berjaya-Sompo for coverage on all our customer’s gold againts robbery and theft. This would comes handy when you transport your gold in and out of our office during renewals and burglary theft.
regards and happy new year.
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Voice Above Noises = troll leave him/her alone to rant
From Wikipedia
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. In addition to the offending poster, the noun troll can also refer to the provocative message itself, as in “that was an excellent troll you posted”.
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations.
ReplyWe begin to believe this is probably a forum where most illiterates and ignorant folks embarrass themselves openly just like what you did, Steve. Bravo – keep it up!
If you felt offended, most probably what we commented made sense and since it does, it hurts. Ouch!
Reply
why dont they put spies in every gold company in Malaysia? Would they need to put spies in Singapore too?
Replywe do agree, Sam.
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Great minds discuss IDEAS
Average minds discuss EVENTS
Small minds discuss PEOPLE
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Shall we not ask ourselves, where do we belong?
ReplyNathan Kadair’s message is loud and clear. He is point to the fact that gold is where you put your money to maintain its buying power. At the same time, if a goldco does not value its customers and agents, just say bye bye to it because there are other goldcos which treat you all better. SGV is aware of this and is having spies to watch those going to Au Niaga.
ReplyDear hopelessly ignorant, how could you so suddenly turned 180 degree around and pretend that you’ve forgotten all those nonsense and ignorant remarks you made earlier on Goldcos? Hmm …
BTW, are you a hypocrite?
ReplySeriously I think Nathan has a point, the agents have think about this seriously.
ReplyDear Nathan Kadair,
It interest me to know the contacts of other Goldcos such as Au Niaga. Would appreciate if you can help. Thanks.
[email protected]
To hopelessly ignorant, may we know why you suddenly interested in Goldcos when you were so pitched against it in the first place? did you suddenly realized you were all wrong all-along? Please enlighten …
ReplyNoiseman cannot read or else would not have missed me saying that gold is THE investment to protect your purchasing power. I am only against schemes which shortchange their customers and carry out their business without any transparancy at all. Ha, ha, imagine a customer of Genneva going overboard to “protect” the platform which is screwing you so badly. Good luck investing.
ReplyThe noises guy is now even afraid of his shadow and thrashing around trying to free himself form all his inconsequencial shallow talk. Even customers with any Goldco can contribute more meaningfully to this forum. For your information MAS is the regulatory body in Singapore and their Investors Alert List is there to forewarn investors to hold tight to their seats to avoid losing their pants. Merry Christmas and a happy and Prosperous New Year to all of you.
ReplyThat’s all? Please keep your comment coming. As we said, we are going to re-visit all these in RETROSPECTIVE. So, go ahead and say what you want now.
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All u agents of SGV!!! Stand up for your rights!! oppose comm cut. Dont be pussies. It is your money at stake while the directors laughing to the bank!!
I agree with Nathan, If the company terminates you, someone else welcomes you with open arms, not until they have real endorsement from BNM.they dont carry weight. Once Gold Label calimed the are above board, where are they now?
ReplyMr Sam,
Finally someone has balls to voice out, i may not be involved with SGV but i do know that a few of the seniors, some very high up seniors proposed to the directors to cut comm so that the co. can increase overiding from 9k to 10k, these high up seniors have about 20 seniors under them, dont u think they will benefit greatly from this comm cut-to-OR increase move? If they have 20 seniors under them is 20k increase overnight. How many seniors there has 20 seniors under them u may ask?
First, PREJUDICE exposed. Then better still, even the ultimate SCAM exposed! What scam, you may ask.
Well, the SCAM of some fund managers or fund house hiring financial analysts to write nonsense and to instill unproductive debates among idiots in forum such as this one in the name of TRANSPARENCY and sincerity to help.
Now do you know what the ultimate scam’s all about, hah.
We did propose to these idiots to represent the so-called victims and to go beyond just writing in this forum and these idiots just dodged the issues altogether.
We did suggest that the “outright malicious” to join force with the “hopelessly ignorant” in the capacities of chairman and chairperson representing all those so-called victims in their quest to get a re-dress.
Let’s see how they dodge and dodge again. For that matter, forget them. After all, they are the “outright malicious” and “hopelessly ignorant”. Unless you have faith in their nonsense, please disregards their comments and opinions altogether, though it may sounds professional, though it may look competent but where is it leading to if not they are not leading you to TIMBUKTU?
May the public see ever more clearly now whatever the foolishness, ignorance in abundance, illiteracies and outright maliciousness with hidden agendas within their so-called point-by-point analysis, their detailed explanations and what’s not.
Merry Christmas to everyone!
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Dear Voice Above Noises,
Hi, i am one of the investor from SGV. But i really dont understand how the company gain profit to pay our 24% P.A, do u know the answer? Regards,
Ken
We can’t help you. You may ask one of their agent.
There is one we came across. Her name is Sharon, [email protected]
You may want to write to her.
ReplyPrejudice exposed. Better still, scam exposed! What scam, you may ask.
Well, we couldn’t help but to agree with “Dari Sekinchan.”
There are many other types of investment vehicles that people have lost chunks and chunks of money but why the discussion only on Genn-nee-waa or any other wee-wee, waa-waa company that deals with Gold for that matter?
Those who wrote nonsense and spitting out venom here are either prejudiced, with hidden agendas or worse still, OUTRIGHT IGNORANT!
So, firstly, PREJUDICE exposed. Next …
Interestingly, some fund managers have revealed to us that some very good financial analysts have actually been hired and well-paid to do this.
“What … ?” – you may ask.
To write in forums like this one and to mislead the public, to plant wrong information and to instill, misplaced angers towards SGV / Genneva and also TO ROB THE INVESTING PUBLIC OFF of their precious opportunity to hedge against inflation and to create wealth.
“Why … ?” – you may ask again.
Well, their businesses are so terribly affected by Genneva / SGV/ whatever to the point that the investing public and worse still, even own their customers are beginning to doubt their wisdom and abilities.
Otherwise, why these idiots just target SGV, Genneva, whatever the wee-wee, waa-waa (not only Genn-nee-waa) company for that matter and not the unit trust, the mutual funds, the forex, the properties investment, the stocks, the remisiers, etc.?
Why can’t and why don’t these ignorant folks (some are simply outright malicious) see BOTH THE FLIP SIDES OF A COIN before you hastily leave a “legacy of shame” of themself in this forum for everybody to re-visit in RETROSPECTIVE, say in 6-months, 1-, 2- or 3-years from now?
Think again …
ReplyDear Serene,
MAS puts The Gold Label on the Investor Alert List as reported in the media and quoted by The LionInvestor and others.
ReplyIf you think the public is that naive and ill-informed so much so that they will take each & every one of your words as the sermons, you’ve deadly mistaken it.
More & more people who don’t write herein are already very alert of you and wonder when will you name appear in the Alert List as well.
Your news, your sharing, your comments, your advice, your everything – where are they leading to, honestly? But alas, there’s no honesty in you!
Replyaiya, everybody sell of their gold and put the money back into the FDs la… , everyone else all put money into FDs la… , Mr.Sekincang is right, i really agree other platforms out there be it legal or illegal is still risky. So all of u and everyone else out there all put their money in FDs and be happy with the misserable 2% per year and shut the **** up, theres nothing here in this forum but noises, beh tahan.
ReplyHas anyone ever asked why most of the comments herein are so narrowly-focused against SGV and against investment in Gold, and Gold alone?
Why all this so-called analysis only focus on this ONE PARTICULAR company, and nothing else? And why are there idiots who are so concerned about this? Hmm …
ReplyThats because these idiots are very public and they are not in the gold business, they are selling or working for Uncle Teh. We all mutual-ly knows
ReplyOMG! Still a war zone here on whos wrong and whos right. All those oppose on this gold scheme will brand this scheme as “dangerous of losing your money” and those defend it is on otherwise. How come no one brand Mutual Fund as “dangerous” when u still find batch of people lost their capital, even no one comment here about Bursa Saham when heaps of people lost their money also. Why no one brand TOTO or Magnum and Genting “dangerous” as more than 100,000 folds of people lost money compared to gold investment.
All u people here are just prejudice !!
Reply
Totally Agreed All U people here are just prejudice.
So are the Casinos of Singapore.
Before you get in, you already LOST S$100.
Even insurance companies lost their investments in some of their kind of funds but pass the lost to their poor agents in terms of claw back of commissions. Anyone like to comment on this?
ReplySeriously i must respect Dari Sekinchang for the facts, Many here says gold investments here would cause you to lose your investment, up to date i think theres just a small handful of investors who lost some money,usually the 20% loss if they sell out their gold immediately, compared to the mass out there had losses in Mutual Funds and Shares. So whats the moral here? If gold is risky dont invest, then dont invest in Mutual Funds and Shares too.
Just like the other guy said, just put your money in FD for the yearly 2% and dont complain.
ReplyHas anyone ever as the self-appointed expert in this forum, Jeffrey Lim what are his hidden agendas and why all his comments are so narrowly-pitched against SGV / Genneva / whatever the company name is?
Why all this so-called analysis only focus on this ONE PARTICULAR company, and nothing else? Hmm …
Why, why, you tell me why …
ReplyIn what name do you call these if not “PREJUDICE”?
Of course, there are:
Among them are the “OUTRIGHT MALICIOUS” as well as the “HOPELESSLY IGNORANT” and not to forget those “OVERLY SELF-RIGHTEOUS”.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. – Plato (BC 427-BC 347) Greek philosopher.
ReplyThe “Noises” making man is vulgar and has no class even though he may be making 6 digit commission. Let him explain to his customers why the Goldcos are place on the MAS Investor Alert List. He has nothing to contribute except venom and vulgarity. Why should we bother about him at all.
ReplyAt Sgv meeting had mentioned a new company emerged called Au Niaga, anyone here has any info? What rebates they offer,agent comm and etc. Sgv agents need not reply or comment, I m referring to the outsiders who knows.
ReplyYes Mr.Xavier, i heard that too, the company says that they will terminate any agents found selling for them, i guess Au Niaga will be very happy to hear that as their part time agents will become full time agents, thanks to SGV, not to mention their clients will be reeled over too. If SGV impliments a comm cut, it makes a lot of sense to switch over.
ReplyI think the agents of SGV has lack of education in terms of the being in the agenthood, i see the company have squezzed your nuts to the max. The company says if you deal with other company such as Au will be terminated, in the first place do you recieve a basic pay roll? In this business who is the KING? the company or the agents? If its not for the agents like you where is the company today? If SGV say they will terminate you,Au will gladly have you onboard anytime. So what is the trump card SGV or Genneva M’sia holds? They are above board? Says who? Says BNM? Are they bonded to BNM? Have they proved anything solid yet? Where is their black and white from BNM? BNM will not raid them? Is it guaranteed? If they are not guaranteed so as Au and other players out there. So what are they so special then? So why must you let them squezze your nuts? I know theres a cocky leader there by the name of Phillip, he said those who wants to leave can leave, wait til the agents leave the the bulk then he will eat his words. I m not an agent of SGV but i can tell you that you are in a unique business but do it for the boss who appreciates you ,not squezzing your nuts.
ReplyEven the Main Stream Medianews is printing nonsense when it the content is on MAS putting the Goldcos on the Investor Alert List and a Goldco is going into voluntory receivership and not paying its customers. The “noise” is deafening as a last stand is made to protect its wealth bastion. My only regret is all those who had been led into these type of schemes by wealth seekers who profit from the customers’ sorrow.
ReplyJeffrey, why not you join force with Lee Mei May and be the chairman and chairperson for all those affected customers?
Can both of you go beyond just writing in this forum?
ReplyDear Mr.Jeffrey,
May i ask are you Singaporean or Malaysian? Did u read the newspaper here in Singapore before you comment anything?
As far as MAS and media publishers here in Singapore are no nonsense. Should the media here publish nonsense on anything related to any government bodies here will be shut down before you know it.
Jeffrey, please own up to all your rubbish and venom that you put out into this forum as more and more investors in the investing circles are judging you very, very badly – outside of this forum.
Why are your so-called analysis so narrow, so pitched against Genneva / SGV / whatever wee-wee, waa-waa kind of Gold Companies operating out there?
Why are you so passionate with the MAS Investor Alert and anything in that similar nature? What are your message? Rather, what are your hidden agendas?
Oh, please. You can’t hide, can you?
Can you be more balance and let’s talk about really losing money in other investment vehicles as pointed out by “Dari Sekinchan”?
Please show us that you are not just another malicious idiots who may write anything that may ROB THE INVESTING PUBLIC OFF their precious opportunity to build wealth in the name of transparency.
Else, you’re in for a disastrous ride herein. Your scam/s is/are exposed, or going to be exposed if not yet so.
How much were you paid to write all these nonsense? Do you even have a conscience?
Reply
I am rather surprised that the thread on this topic is getting longer each day. There’s basically nothing to talk about anymore as we all know that the system of this company will eventually collapse.
There’s no need for deep analysis to understand whether or not it is worth investing in this company. It is logical which someone in this forum has already pointed out that every transaction generates NEGATIVE MARGIN.
People are just blinded by greed that put themselves on the musical chair. Take care and good luck to those who have invested.
Merry X’Mas everyone 🙂
ReplyIf really there’s no need for deep analysis to understand whether or not it is worth investing in this company, why would you yourself believe in those misleading analysis that point to every transaction generating NEGATIVE MARGIN?
What if someone else coming out with equally convincing, if not more, an analysis that points out OTHERWISE, what would you believe then? What this and not that? Or why that and not this?
Because you’ve already chosen to feed on rubbish, and then only you go about searching for substance to support what you believe.
Enough have been said, let’s re-visit this subject in time to come. You may make your judgement then, in RETROSPECTIVE.
In the meanwhile, we urge that you observe and observe IN broader PERSPECTIVE, in Big Picture. Learn very quickly on matters such as economy and finances so as not to embarrass yourself with all these blanks.
Merry Christmas to everyone!
Reply
Warn and forewarn, special efforts had been put in in advance. But fools are still born every minute to believe all the smokes. But these are the greedy fools paying expensive lesson fees.
The forum is dominated by agents with personal greed throwing all kinds of smoke bombs with no fundamentals.
The project in Singapore is over. The only next step will be trying to bring all agents involved implicated in the case/s. Take care.
Signing off.
ReplyWarn and forewarned? Special efforts put in in-advance?
What nonsense is this? Rather, what rubbish is this?
Can you show us that you are looking at BOTH THE FLIP SIDES OF A COIN, in PERSPECTIVE before you embarrass yourself with your passing comments that doesn’t serve to do anything good?
The project in Singapore is over? What project? When was it over? Can you elaborate in detail?
The next step? To bring all agents involved implicated? In the cases? What cases? Can you please elaborate further?
Take care? You mean you yourself should take care? Hmm ..
ReplyWishing all forumers Merry Christmas and a very happy new year.
Just keep your fingers crossed that the MAS action on Gold Trading companies across the causeway does not cause a run either in Singapore or in Malaysia.
We had Genneva Sdn. Bhd., the comes
Samudra Sdn. Bhd. and now with the leasing and factoring platform, we have Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd.
Did anything change? Yes.
With the leasing platform, the customers are no longer the owner of the gold which are already fully paid for, but is being leased from the company which pays hibah (incentive) to the customer.
The value of the Hibah is not mentioned anywhere in keeping with Syariah Compliant rules, but is “understood” to be 1.5%.
It was capped at 1.5% with the explanation that that is the limit imposed by BNM for the Hibah. Is it true?
With the mark up at 25%, it will take more than a year of Hibah to break even, if the company folds or is suspended by BNM.
Remember, Genneva Sdn. Bhd. (as it was with the other gold trading companies suspended) was investigated not because of its trading platform, but under AMLA (Anti – Money Laundering Act) and BAFIA (Banking and Financial Institutions Act) and the Directors charged under AMLA but surprisingly not under BAFIA for its “Park-in” scheme. So the question arise as to whether changing the platform will make it safer for the customers?
With the MAS investigations, it will be revealed as to whether the business model is stable or otherwise.
There were some new revelations of late that some technical investment analysts and even fund managers were so affected by the public’s response toward Genneva’s Gold portfolio in Singapore that they desperately resorted to …
… writing nonsense and spitting out venom into forums such as this one in order to mislead the investing public in the name of “Warn and forewarn, special efforts had been put in in advance. But fools are still born every minute to believe all the smokes.”
Sounded so noble, sounded so sincere! What a revelation!
Do you have anything to do with this, Jeffrey?
Anything at all ‘coz we are very, very suspicious of your agendas – after we have gone through all that you wrote.
To all those who like to feed on rubbish like these, be our guests.
Merry Christmas, and all the best to you!
ReplyAgain & again, you have demonstrated that you do know more than the average people out there, Jeffrey.
Please keep writing herein. Keep posting your comments and opinions and please keep them coming so that we may have ENOUGH of them for reference when we it is time to re-visit this subject again in RETROSPECTIVE.
We would like to see BOTH THE FLIP SIDES of arguments, comments, opinions and what’s not. So, please keep them coming. TQvm
Merry Christmas for everyone!
Reply
Hi everyone,
Noises, if you are working with Samudra you are an embarassment to the company. Please be more professional when you reply to people and give courteous replies.
You seem so ashamed to mention who you really are – if I was working for the company I would terminate you. The company does not need people like you abusing others.
Everyone has there opinion and they are right to expresss it – give them that respect.
If people choose not to buy gold and get the good returns the company has on offer it is their choice and you have no right to question their views.
I am proud to be part of the company and I am enjoying the fruits of my hard of my hard work.
Gold prices will continue to rise for the next few years and I am sure the company will do very well and so will those who have bought gold.
And please remember that the business is not a gold business as such but it is a form of saving which has gold as collateral, so the risk is minimised, as gold will always have a value.
And Noises, please do not bother to reply to this message unless you can say something without being abusive.
Richard
ReplyWere you being judgmental or worse, being overly self-righteous herein? Just wonder ..
ReplyIf any of us are working with the company, we shall not hesitate to terminate you too. Likewise, the company does not need overly self-righteous people like you, we strongly believe.
You were right. Respect others who respectfully respect themselves by not being outright malicious and making a fool out of themselves and in the process, robbing the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. Got it?
ReplyHey Richard, we have had an intense discussion among ourselves and we felt it is time that you come out and write your opinions herein. We like to see you again with your OVERLY SELF-RIGHTEOUS SPIRIT at work. Be the judge of everybody, Richard. Play God, play Judge.
ReplyHey Noise man,
Who are you to ask questions? From the way you write you have no credential! You are desperate and uncultured when you have to resort to crude name calling. If you read the signs, Singapore is already focusing its sights on the Goldcos and even the pro-business main stream media is reporting on The Gold Label and Genneva on the same page.
We do not expect you to protect the gold buyers who are giving you your 6 digit monthly income. Their potential sorrow, is your wealth machine. You do not even care for your own down line consultants and other up-coming senior consultants who can qualify with RM1 million group customer purchases but will not get the 0.4% commission until after their sales exceed RM2.5m. These greedy “successful” senior consultants just wollap the 0.4% x RM1.5m = RM10,000 per month. Do you now wonder why they are so desparately using the “we” to defend the platform. Except for name calling, does the Noise man want to answer the questions posed in my previous posting?
Please heed The LionInvestors who had been following this business from some early days. Who has more credential? The LionInvestor or the Noise man?
Hey, how are you doing?
We are just returning favors for favors and abuses for abuses, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. That’s it.
Please keep writing herein. Keep posting your comments and opinions and please keep them coming so that we may have enough of them for reference when we it is time to re-visit this subject again in RETROSPECTIVE.
We all can see then who’s spitting out rubbish.
ReplyHey, you the hopelessly ignorant.
Can you pls. keep writing herein so that we may have enough of all your ignorance and foolishness captured herein for our future analysis and comments, post-mortem, IN RETROSPECTIVE?
It does also give you the opportunity to re-read all those rubbish and nonsense that you’ve put forth herein and we would like you to feel totally embarrassed THEN. You got us?
So, pls. We beg you to keep writing all your stupid thoughts herein for a record. We beg you, you the hopelessly ignorant.
TQVM to you, you the hopelessly ignorant.
Reply
OMG, i haven’t been here for sometime and looks like there is a war going on here.
who is this voice above noises? sounds like a troll talking in circular fashion.
anyway, in today’s TODAY newspaper, Gold Label has been placed in MAS Investor Alert List and Genneva Gold mentioned on the same page.
I still can’t believe Genneva Gold is still surviving.. really a fool born every minute!
Cheers and Merry Christmas,
Intheknow
ya, i saw it too, Gold Label now in the hot list and MAS mentioned that they will probe all gold companies, which means even Genneva.
ReplyDidnt u all read the article properly? The paper says MAS is not happy the way this gold businesses turned out in Singapore, they would ban this type of platform here if they have to.
Reply” The paper says MAS is not happy the way this gold businesses turned out in Singapore, they would ban this type of platform here if they have to.”
The MAS who’s not happy or was it YOU & YOU ALONE that’s not happy?
Can be please honestly clarify?
ReplyYou In the Know or rather NOT in the know?
Think again and think hard before you reply.
ReplyDear Enzo,
The Noiseman is most probably a senior consultant making 6 digit monthly commission from the people whom he had brought to buy gold from Samudra/Genneva. He is representing all these senior consultants with the use of “we” and they now want to distance themselves from the “Park-in” by not wanting anyone to re-surrect the issue and “rock the boat”. Therefore the “Park-in” people such take up the issue actively if they want to see their money any time soon. With the new Syariah Compliant platform they will be using the name again but with a “Malaysia” added in (Genneva Malaysia Sdn. Bhd.). Go get a lawyer and start a class action similar to that done by the Americans in the Bernie Madoff case. Remember they manage to get back a huge chunk of the investment. If they face legal action, the Directors will have to find a way to resolve the issue or face the consequences. By letting the matter drag, the chameleon will continue to get more people into the net and use their agents to hoodwink the people. Always remember that by being Syariah Compliant, the customers are not protected from BNM because in all previous cases AMLA and BAFIA are used. The directors had been charged under AMLA but with the “Park-in” shouldn’t BNM also use BAFIA for deposit taking? If the noiseman wants evidence of “Park-in” can someone who had participated in this please oblige him and then since he put his body and soul into the company, he should resolve it for them immediately.
ReplyYou are still dodging the real questions and real issues, bitch!
Until then, we suggest that you take stock of your knowledge and for your own good, refrain from making a fool out of yourself further.
We shall re-visit again in 6-months, 1-year, 2-years and 3-years from today.
You just gotta make sure you’re so damn right that you don’t have to eat your own words and slap your own face then. We shall “resurrect” these issues then, in RETROSPECTIVE. Hmm …
For now, we decide to see things in PERSPECTIVE.
Begin with the end in mind – Stephen R. Covey.
ReplyI am rather surprised that the thread on this topic is getting longer each day. There’s basically nothing to talk about anymore as we all know that the system of this company will eventually collapse.
There’s no need for deep analysis to understand whether or not it is worth investing in this company. It is logical which someone in this forum has already pointed out that every transaction generates NEGATIVE MARGIN.
People are just blinded by greed that put themselves on the musical chair. Good luck to those who have invested.
Merry X’Mas everyone 🙂
ReplyFor your enlightenment, we are a group of investors that have several portfolios, one of which is with Genneva and we got together and we decide that we would like to write in this forum but instead of using several ID’s, why not we just use one ID’s for all of us in the group. That’s when we decided to use “we”.
We are not whatever consultants as you assumed, you the hopelessly ignorant.
We just saddened by the fact that there are indeed idiots like you who have chosen not to see BOTH THE FLIP SIDES OF THE COINS and take a more balanced view, just like “Dari Sekinchan”.
Please come out and represent all those so-called victims and go beyond just writing here, you the hopelessly ignorant.
ReplyVoice Above Noises talks like a reply-bot. Is he a human at all? If he is, he must be someone who has thrown all his fortune in Genneva.
ReplyLet’s come back to this subject in 6-months, 1-year, 2-years and 3-years from today. We shall see things in RETROSPECTIVE then.
Tell us that you have not been overly-judgmental, overly self-righteous and so damn right. That would be our proposition, Enzo.
Begin with the end in mind – Stephen R. Covey
Reply“It is wiser to find out than to suppose” – Mark Twain quotes
ReplyHey Noise man. blah’s point is sharp, loud and clear but with your limited capability nobody can blame you for not being able either to understand it or grasp its meaning. All that your masters had trained you to do is what Goebbel had done for Hiltler and that is to keep repeating and hope that one day people will take that as truth even though nothing is further from the truth. You keep questioning the literacy of others and denigrate the contribution of other forumers, the integrity of others, the accuracy of other’s information but never for reflect for a moment that all that you had inputed amount to zero as there is no useful information given. Full stop.
ReplyFull stop?
Never stop!
Why not you join force with Jeffrey Lim and be the chairman and chairperson for all those affected customers?
Can both of you go beyond just writing in this forum?
That’s why we say, “never stop!”
Go beyond that shooting blanks with your ignorance.
ReplyMany are destined to reason wrongly; others, not to reason at all; and others, to persecute those who do reason. – Voltaire
Do you belong here?
“It is too bad that stupidity isn’t painful.” – amberella Anton LaVey quotes. “Stupidity should be painful.”
What do you think?
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. – Plato (BC 427-BC 347) Greek philosopher.
So, can you pls. keep writing and keep your comments coming?
“It is wiser to find out than to suppose” – Mark Twain quotes
Reply
Voices, er, you make my eyes hurt trying to read what you’ve posted. I have a hard time understanding half of what you’re trying to say, meandering this way and that.
End of the day, I doubt that you’re any more a samaritan tending to fix all the ills (arguing about transparency blahblah and all that) in the world but rather someone that seems opportunistically in it just to flog a dying horse.
With the loopholes inherent in boleh-land, it is obviously not difficult to exploit that in creating many shell companies for the sole purpose of fraudulent transactions.
What might be transpiring here, with the parking in.. Is doing what the modern bank does, without any of the regulations and guarantees that BNM provides. You’re not a customer, but a creditor. They sell you gold. You can park it there as a depositor and then they’re free to re-sell that gold to someone else. Even though it’s yours. Bit like all those CDO’s and complex instruments that have been thrown around.
Gold as a hedge against inflation (and devaluation of the currency) is viable. The question isn’t about that, but rather why should we trade with a firm that was just formed and is not under any supervision or regulatory control (it doesn’t mean that regulators are good at their job but it beats nothing right?)?
Anyways, stop being such a bore (not to mention a net noob). You post using a pseudonym and talk about transparency and accountability and referring to yourself as “We”. If that isn’t a god complex I don’t know what is.
I may not be as Machiavellian as LKY, but I do think that people that is as adamant in “spreading the word” about this new investment tool (as well as “power to the people” ad nauseam) without any vested interest in it is about as credible as Samy Velu’s bouffant.
Nothing different between you and the chaps over in Goldman. Just that they twist their words better.
ReplyEr. I think I shall do it in point form just so you can read it easily. Anymore than this it’ll have to be powerpoint “with pictures”.
1. You might be a fraud with a vested interest
2. You seem to have a big ego. Use of Caps have been liberal. Tantamount to shouting in a kopi-tiam.
3. Your arguments not credible. Vaguely referring to some far-off point that history will be the judge (ala G. Bush Jr.).
4. You use rhetoric and emotional responses to move away against valid debate.
5. You do have a lot of time. Maybe.
6. You have a poor command of english. Frequent use of complex words to obfuscate your intent does not make your use of the language any smarter.
Finally. I think we all do best to just push away any debate/talk that has no basis on facts. To each his/her own.
A. Said company has no regulatory control. IE. You go in bearing all the risk that only by proof of criminal/fraudulent conduct are you able to get any legal (civil/criminal) recourse.
B. Current bull run in commodities will make the returns from trading/speculating quite viable in the near term. So their promise returns can be fulfilled now. Perhaps. Just not sure what happens when it pops. Also, they can lie. Since they’re not covered by A. We all know there’s a bubble that’s gonna form when there is so much excess liquidity in the market.
C. There is a charge/premium on the purchase. So you’re in the red the moment you go in. Like a unit trust with a sales/management charge etc. Your investment needs to earn more than this in order to be profitable.
D. Said company has changed hands. So, same people, different name. Not sure why is there the need to do this. Rather than say govt. conspiracy to blind the masses.. we should ask, why?
E. We need more scrutiny. Not less. Too bad some of the bodies in charge are rather toothless.
F. To quote our esteemed voices here. Yeah, I think I’d rather wait for now.. Might go do some actual comparisons with the prices (from the market vs. this company) and post it up here.
G. There’s also this thing that’s going on about the possibility that some of the gold in circulation are actually fakes. The price of the bar is actually high enough for metalurgists to come up with concoctions to fool the experts.
ReplyEr. I think I shall do it in point form just so you can read it easily. Anymore than this it’ll have to be powerpoint “with pictures”.
1. You might be a fraud with a vested interest
2. You seem to have a big ego. Use of Caps have been liberal. Tantamount to shouting in a kopi-tiam. Possibly with some spittle for emphasis.
3. Your arguments not credible. Vaguely referring to some far-off point that history will be the judge (ala G. Bush Jr.).
4. You use rhetoric and emotional responses to move away against valid debate.
5. You like to use copy and paste. Ctrl-c and v for the win.
6. You have a poor command of english. Frequent use of complex words (to perhaps obfuscate your true intent) does not make your use of the language any smarter.
Finally. I think we all do best to just push away any debate/talk that has no basis on facts. To each his/her own.
A. Said company has no regulatory control. IE. You go in bearing all the risk that only by proof of criminal/fraudulent conduct are you able to get any legal (civil/criminal) recourse.
B. Current bull run in commodities will make the returns from trading/speculating quite viable in the near term. So their promise returns can be fulfilled now. Perhaps. Just not sure what happens when it pops. Also, they can lie. Since they’re not covered by A. We all know there’s a bubble that’s gonna form when there is so much excess liquidity in the market.
C. There is a charge/premium on the purchase. So you’re in the red the moment you go in. Like a unit trust with a sales/management charge etc. Your investment needs to earn more than this in order to be profitable.
D. Said company has changed hands. So, same people, different name. Not sure why is there the need to do this. Rather than say govt. conspiracy to blind the masses.. we should ask, why?
E. We need more scrutiny. Not less. Too bad some of the bodies in charge are rather toothless.
F. To quote our esteemed voices here. Yeah, I think I’d rather wait for now.. Might go do some actual comparisons with the prices (from the market vs. this company) and post it up here.
G. There’s also this thing that’s going on about the possibility that some of the gold in circulation are actually fakes. The price of the bar is actually high enough for metalurgists to come up with concoctions to fool the experts.
ReplyWow! What a lengthy analysis sorted out in points form. TQVM.
And congratulations as well. Enzo is taking your sermon as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Well done, Blah!
Can you please keep them coming so that all of us may have enough of your materials, thoughts, opinions and comments for reference when we re-visit this subject again in RETROSPECTIVE.
How wonderful when you find out how you thought, how you behaved and how you perceived, especially when it is done in RETROSPECTIVE.
Please keep them coming and then, we shall re-visit all these again. Well done, Blah. Looking forward to seeing more from you herein then. please done stop, yeah.
Merry Christmas to everyone!
ReplyBlah, do you give sermon? Do you use your head when you speak?
You talked about “at the end of the day” and at the end of the day, we shall re-visit this subject in RETROSPECTIVE then.
We shall we if you talked sense or you talked nonsense.
Being able to see things in PERSPECTIVE and in RETROSPECTIVE gives us wisdom to understand and empathize stupidity that are so abundant within your thoughts and comments. Hmm …
Learn & learn very QUICKLY and you shall realize how much more that you didn’t know nor understand – which unfortunately, became the source of inspiration to write nonsense herein? Hmm …
Reply
Oh yeh is this the best explaination that you can come out wtih for the park in?
Hey for all the existing and would-be investors, please remember this reply, if anything goes wrong “blame yourselves”.
Absolutely, blame yourself, which fool would give money to a company without recieving any products? Those other clients who opt for gold in hand complains nothing.
Replyi think kw didnt realise that in this platform, what made it special compared to other investment schemes out there is the capital is secured by the gold bar in your hand if anything goes wrong. Things will go wrong, regardless if its from a sdn bhd company or a bank, Lehman Brothers a 150 year old financial institution also can go drastically wrong,and the worst part is all their clients have nothing.
Replykw, thanks for revealing what a fool in yourself and this gives others the opportunity to look at themselves / ourselves.
Again, thanks a lot!
ReplyVoices only make noises but doesn’t even read the mainstream media represented by the MSM leading “Star”. Even the defence attorney proudly told the court that bail need not be that high as the Company still has RM20 million in frozen asset and 5 kg of gold with BNM.
The case under AMLA against the 3 directors and one ex-director was postphoned to 04/04/2010 for mention and mind you it is not even at the trial stage. Does anyone dare to hope that prior to a decision on the outstanding case there will be a decision to lift the suspension on the Company and unfreeze its assets.
I hope you will take your own advice and not continue with exposing your own ignorance and end up as a laughing stock to the whole world. If you have nothing but ignorance to contribute do not question others but just question yourself first. Those who had been led by their “friendly agent” to do the Park-in had been suffering for more than a year and there are among them aunties and uncles who may have used up their saving in this scheme and the people who have taken in their money is blaming it on BNM and running another “show”. In the first place, as I mentioned earlier, Park-in is where customers paid for the gold and “park” it in the company. So now, where is the gold. Is it parked in China?
There are those who knows that they know,
and when they speak, they lead – Aha!
There are those who knows that they don’t know,
so they choose NOT to speak, for fear they may mislead – Hmm ..
Then, there are those who don’t even know that they don’t know,
YET they speak, and hence they mislead – Wow!
Let’s see where do you belong, Lee Mei May. Not only for now but for years to come. Please remember to come back in 12-months, 24-months & 36-months from today and we shall re-visit this case again, in RETROSPECTIVE then.
Let’s begin with the end-in-mind – Stephen R. Covey.
============================
You said according to news report, bla, bla, bla …
Btw, which news report? Oh, please don’t dodge that question.
Don’t you behave like another irresponsible “noises” telling the whole wide world that you didn’t do your homework and instead, simply accuse other for not reading the mainstream news.
Most of the visitors to this forum are not intellectually inferior – please bear that in mind.
Either you do your homework & quote the source or you shut up, bitch! Evidence & credential do matters!
And be careful with your typo. Do you mean 04/04/2011 or 2010?
You see, we don’t understand you. Are you trying to suggest that all of us shall look forward to 04/04/2011 or to look back into history on a fateful day, i.e. 04/04/2010? It may be a simple typo but can totally means something else. (were you typing in angry mode?)
Unless you have a legal background + a correct PERSPECTIVE of things, you’re simply shooting blanks here. Can you visualize your own response / reactions herein this forum when you look back at it again in 1-, 2-, 3-years from now?
Your statements sounded strong but sorry, they don’t withstand the test of credibility and the test of competency. You’re so damn right and others so damn wrong. If that’s what you want, you’re in the wrong place – you’re dead wrong!
=======================
It always take both to tango – it also takes both hands to clap. Excessive greeds are bad, so does excessive IGNORANCE.
Transparency is essential – so does ACCOUNTABILITY!
You shall be held accountable for what you fired on, not for now, but in time to come. Please make sure you come back here again to share your thoughts on these issues that you’ve never given very thoughtful considerations before you shout, we believe.
=======================
We do nevertheless agree with you that it is indeed time that all customers should get together and form an action committee.
Seriously, we have a lot of people across both sides of the straits who would like YOU to personally champion this, Mei May. Be our Chairperson. You know what – ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!
We are more than willing to meet up with you with the proposition that you champion what you cried for. We meant it .. seriously. We have some so-called victims for you to represent.
And don’t you dodge this one also!
========================
Earlier on, we were tired of agents or advocates that tried to protect this scheme. At the same time, we are now also tired of idiots who are IGNORANT enough to rob others of the opportunity to build wealth but quoting all sorts of irrelevant metaphors and what’s not.
These idiots cry for TRANSPARENCY. We shall give them support for their call. And we MUST make them ACCOUNTABLE for their calling too. What say you, people?
ReplyMany a times, we wish we can be helpful, more helpful if possible.
Than sometimes, we wish we could be of great value to humankind, even to the extent of being noble. Nothing wrong in that itself.
We may have ignorantly thought we are trying to be helpful and on the other hand, we may have also IGNORANTLY rob the investing public the very precious opportunity to do good. Come on, think through and through about this …
How can we be so damn right that we try make others so damn wrong? How can we be so damn righteous so as to make other seems so scary, so scandalous, so unrighteous, unjust, etc.?
How can we be so damn self-righteous so as NOT to see the other side of the equation, i.e the consequences of robbing the investing public off from the very precious opportunity to do good? How can we? How can we!?
That’s what we called “PERSPECTIVE” or the Big Picture.
ReplyDear kw,
By the very definition “park-in” denotes that when the customer paid the money, the Company is required to have the gold and safe keep it for the customer, as otherwise it is deposit taking. So where is the gold? According to the news report, from the frozen asset only remain RM20 million and 5 kg of gold. It is time for the customer to get together and form an action committee to get back what rightfully belongs to them. All those defenders of the scheme have their special vested interest and you have been hearing the “noises”. The assets will remain frozen and this will give the company the excuse for not returning to you your fund. The court action by BNM under AMLA is going to take at least until the second anniversay of 21/07/2009.
ReplyThere are those who knows that they know,
and when they speak, they lead – Aha!
There are those who knows that they don’t know,
so they choose NOT to speak, for fear they may mislead – Hmm ..
Then, there are those who don’t even know that they don’t know,
YET they speak, and hence they mislead – Wow!
Let’s see where do you belong, Lee Mei May. Yes, we mean “You”
=====================================
You said according to news report, bla, bla, bla … which news report? Or did you actually quoted this from just another equally irresponsible member to this forum, if not worst than you? Can you pls. quote the source of the news herein for all to judge for themselves? Else, you cannot help but be perceived as yet another irresponsible “noises” telling the whole wide world that you don’t do your homework, neither do you think with a straight head before you open your mouth. Your credentials all into the drain.
=====================================
We agree that it is indeed time that all customers should get together and form an action committee. We have a lot of people across both sides of the straits who would like you to personally champion this, Mei May. Be our Chairperson. You know what – ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!
So, please volunteer and be our Chairperson to your own calling. We shall awaits you, Mei May. Pls. don’t shy away, y-e-a-h.
=====================================
The court action by BNM under AMLA is going to take at least until the second anniversary? Who told you that? And are you telling us to feed on who knows who told you what? Well, we shall see.
Oh, what if nothing happens even after the third anniversary? Can we invite you to share your thoughts herein once again then?
=====================================
Last question for you – are you part of those “noises” defending the scheme that we have been hearing? Please do not defend it – let it be transparent – that’s our pledge. If the “scheme” is meant to turn belly up, we shall be glad to see to it that one fine day.
Reply
Stop press!! , This after noon Gold Label S’pore was raided by MAS. They came with arrest warrent from government and the COO was in custidy.
Replyhey, we appreciate you quote the source of the news herein for all to judge for themselves. Appreciate that.
otherwise, your very own credential and motives are in questions. forget about questioning others, ‘what’ are you, ppl may ask.
Replyhey, we appreciate you quote the source of the news herein for all to judge for themselves. Appreciate that. Credential matters!
Reply
any follow up after the launch of their so called syariah link stuff?
They even use dr M to do the launching… Either this round it’s gonna hurt even more ppl when the whole thing turned upside down in one two years time… Any comments?
ReplyWe must agree with you, billionaire. We do.
Can you get Tun Dr. M. to listen to you? Tell him that he was used to do the launching.
Your comments are so “noble”, and “righteous”. He should listen to you. Else, more & more people will get hurt when they turn belly up in one two years time, be it Syariah or no-Syariah make no difference here. What’s your thoughts?
Reply
For those who defend this scheme, I want to ask this question, where is my MONEY for my park-in gold.
ReplyIn the first place,in this business is selling and buying physical gold,who ask u to ‘park-in’ your money? So blame yourself for being greedy. Others out there has no complaints,they all have gold in their safe keeping
ReplyDear all,
It is futile to engage in name calling and would like to keep my inputs to be informative and it is below my dignity to resort to any act which will turn people away from buying precious metals such as gold and silver because I believe that with the crises besetting National and International currencies, gold and silver are the best way of maintaining your purchasing power. However, any scheme which smells of scam or opportunistic profiteering will be condemned.
ReplyWell done, Jeffrey.
Since you’ve came to your senses now and that you OPENLY condemn scams and opportunistic profiteering, we have a consensus herein that WE SUPPORT YOU!!
We are ALL FOR YOU!
Again, well done, Jeffrey.
Look forward to your more value-added, up-building and constructive comments in this blog in the future.
Look at things in broader perspective, in bigger picture and you shall be doing well.
Reply
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for all the useful information posted.. keep them coming.. cheers! 🙂
KUALA LUMPUR 17 Dis. – Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad menasihatkan orang ramai supaya menyimpan emas berbanding mata wang kerana nilai emas lebih terjamin dan sukar untuk jatuh.
Bekas Perdana Menteri itu berkata, nilai mata wang tidak terjamin kerana ia bergantung kepada pasaran tukaran mata wang dunia yang sentiasa berubah-ubah.
Menurutnya, ada kalanya nilai mata wang akan jatuh dengan teruk apabila berlaku sesuatu krisis kewangan di dalam sesebuah negara.
“Mata wang hanyalah sehelai kertas yang digunakan untuk mewakili nilai tertentu tetapi bukan nilai sebenar, namun emas boleh mewakili nilai sebenar kerana ia sebuah logam berharga di seluruh dunia.
“Simpanan emas lebih terjamin kerana fungsi komoditi itu sebagai penyimpan nilai kalis inflasi dan berdaya tahan terhadap ketidaktentuan ekonomi global yang sedang melanda ekonomi dunia ketika ini,” katanya.
Beliau berkata demikian ketika ditemui pemberita selepas merasmikan Pelancaran Produk Emas Genneva Malaysia berkonsepkan syariah di sini, kelmarin.
Produk emas Genneva Malaysia dihasilkan dalam bentuk jongkong oleh Persatuan Persahabatan Malaysia-Arab Saudi (MSAF) dan Persatuan Usahawan Jongkong Emas Malaysia (GBEAM) yang dikeluarkan memenuhi keperluan Syariah.
MSAF dan GBEAM menyasarkan syarikat swasta dan orang ramai untuk mendapatkan produk berkenaan sebagai urusan dalam pelbagai transaksi terutamanya jualan dan belian.
Dr. Mahathir berkata, suatu ketika dahulu, satu auns emas bernilai AS$30 (RM109.79) tetapi kini satu auns emas bernilai kira-kira AS$1,400 (RM4,390.40).
Beliau berkata, perbezaan antara menyimpan emas fizikal dan emas yang siap diproses (barang kemas, syiling emas) adalah dari sudut keuntungan.
==
[in picture] – Dr. Mahathir Mohamad memegang replika logo Genneva Syariah bersama Presiden Persatuan Persahabatan Malaysia-Arab Saudi, Ahmad Khairuddin Illias (kiri) dan Ketua Pegawai Eksekutif Genneva, Tan Liang Keat (dua dari kanan) sambil disaksikan Pengerusi The Gold Bullion Entreprenueurs Association Malaysia, Datuk Ng Poh Weng (kanan) pada majlis Pelancaran Produk Emas Genneva Malaysia di Kuala Lumpur, baru-baru ini.
ReplyTranslated to English using online translator:
KUALA LUMPUR, 17 December – Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad advise people to keep gold from currency because the value of gold is more secure and harder to fall.
Former prime minister said, the currency is not guaranteed because it depends on the global currency exchange market is constantly changing.
According to him, there are times when the currency will fall in the event of a severe financial crisis in a country.
“Currency is a piece of paper that is used to represent certain values but not the actual value, but gold may represent the true value because it is a precious metal in the world.
“Gold Reserve is more secure because it functions as a store of value commodities and inflation-proof resilient to global economic uncertainty hit the world economy now,” he said.
He said this when met by reporters after launching the product launch Genneva Malaysia Emas Syariah concept here, yesterday.
Malaysia Genneva gold products in the form of ingots produced by the Friendship Association of Malaysia-Saudi Arabia (MSAF) Gold Blooms and Entrepreneurs Association of Malaysia (GBEAM) issued by the Shariah requirements.
MSAF and GBEAM targeting private companies and the public to obtain the product as a business in a variety of transactions, especially buying and selling.
Dr. Mahathir said, a while ago, an ounce of gold worth U.S. $ 30 (RM109.79) but one ounce of gold is now worth about $ 1,400 (RM4, 390.40).
He said the difference between physical gold and gold to keep the process is completed (jewelry, gold coins) is from the point of profitability.
ReplyTo the whole wide world audience of the forum,
We believe you could now begin to discern that there is a self-appointed “God” to this forum who would LIKE YOU TO LET HIM guide your every thought, your every discussion and your decisions as well as your emotions and eventually, of course, your destiny with his unlimited supplies of venom and to have you continue feeding on his very NARROW perspective of things according to his stupid philosophies – all these with regards to one, AND ONLY ONE particular gold trading company.
Have you really never wondered what are his hidden agendas? Have you really never done that at all?! Hmm …
And all this WITHOUT any consideration to the bigger picture and broader perspective of things? Never? Think again!
Why is this self-appointed “God” so eager and so passionate into attacking this one particular, AND ONLY ONE particular Gold trading company and so involved into each and every discussion brought forward by the members of this forum, and clearly misleads them into his labyrinths of analysis, his labyrinths of overly self-righteous reasonings, AGAIN, according to his very narrowed perspective of things laced with his good command of English and his showy display of his competency in mastering some legalese (legal jargons)?
Did you not notice and discern now that the only difference being that he injects the so-called new info. & additional insights from time-to-time, in bits-by-bits manner in order to support his arguments?
Why is this self-appointed “God” so eager to mislead all of us away from seeing things in perspective, away from looking at it in broader scope … towards his custom-made, narrow-scoped perspective?
Can you not see it now? Can you afford to continue feeding on his provisions of various venom re-packaged in the name of truthfulness and TRANSPARENCY, and his very narrowed scope of perspective – DIRECTING IT TO, ONCE AGAIN, THE ONE AND ONLY ONE PARTICULAR GOLD TRADING COMPANY?
Only based on his cry for TRANSPARENCY? How about his ACCOUNTABILITY that we brought to light earlier?
Btw, why not you elevate him to the official status of official Financial God and Guardian to your Destiny – as his call has been?
Why not we ask the right questions and keep our heads straight?
Acid Test: Has his calls for transparency, his God knows what, and his hosts of various nonsense been helpful to you in understanding financial matters? Has it been noble?
Question – Can he possibly be doing exactly what he didn’t know yet, i.e. ROBBING & seriously DEPRIVING the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth?
We do trust that most have the intellectual capability and competency to discern and to draw your own conclusions – minus the venom from this self-appointed “God” and his narrow perspectives arguments.
However, if you find him helpful, by all means worship him. Honor him. Your call. But make sure it is a pretty wise one at that.
Else, despise him. Ignore him. Alternatively, show him the big picture of things and the broader perspective of thoughts that most genuine investing public are seeking in their quest for a real opportunity.
Reply
hi ,
Genneva Malaysia – launched by DR M @ 15/12/2010 ,
i keep google about this company – because they said – syariah based transaction but seem like sg w/s not mention about the syariah ,
from what i read here there’s a lot of doubt about this scheme 😉 ,
so i don’t think i’ll invest but if u interested to buy gold at amalaysia there’s a lot of choice now ( without 7% gst 🙂 ,
the best choice i think it’s from kuwait finance house ,
with physical gold , u can keep it or ask bank to keep for you , no extra charges 😉
http://www.kfhonline.com.my ( the nearest from singapore @ taman molek )
spread about 4%+
thank you for the info about genneva 😉
ReplyDear All,
First we have “agent” trying to run down the gold trading companies as “ponzi”
Now we have proxy champion of SGV full of self righteousness and venom. These are self servers with nothing to contribute and as Shakespierre wrote in “Macbeth” “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”. Since the input is of no value, just ignore the “noises”.
Dear All,
Nowadays there are contributors to this forum who withhold their identity and yet they speak in the plural “we”. However, you are not missing anything, because if you go through their pieces, it is all negativism sprinkled with venom and the need to denigrate others, nothing new, nothing informative. All that is being done is to try to protect the interest of their masters, whoever, that maybe but if you read the pieces, you start to get an idea who the master is.
ReplyThink with a cool head, Jeffrey and STOP being a smart alack here.
And don’t let your FEAR, EGO & IGNORANCE run over you!
We have read a lot of your very misleading postings by now indeed.
The consensus among many of us is that NONE of us were even slightly impressed with your arguments, points, opinions, theories, and what’s not. None! Are you not surprised, Jeffrey?
Initially, we thought you could enlighten on the matter but it become more & more apparent later on that you’re trying to mislead us towards ANALYSIS PARALYSIS by shooting blanks, trying to impress us with your good command in English and your full basket of legalese (legal jargons).
Why not you make it easier for us? Just get the regulators into the picture so that everybody can see clearly what’s going on? Please give us helpful perspective, Jeffrey. Don’t bark on the wrong tree!
The rest of us were not as well-informed as you do initially but no more, Jeffrey. Please try not to embarrass yourself again & again with your stupid theories, calculations of P & L, and what’s not, and all of your off-track analogies and out-of-context assumptions.
=========================
There are those who knows that they know,
when they speak, they lead – Aha!
There are those who knows that they don’t know,
so they choose NOT to speak, for fear they may mislead – Hmm ..
Then, there are those who don’t even know that they don’t know,
YET they speak, and hence they mislead – Wow!
You have really spoken a lot, a lot. A lot, indeed!
Where do you belong, Jeffrey?
=========================
Let’s see things in broader PERSPECTIVE, much broader than what you’re holding now and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well.
What we don’t understand doesn’t means they are not genuine, not real, that they are scandalous, etc.
And stop drawing IRRELEVANT parallels.
=========================
By the way, how well do you understand economy & finance and perhaps, the implications of big government policies that may affect the investing public across the globe?
Perhaps, you could start over by enlightening us on this. You could start over by doing good instead.
Most of us are not schooled in finance nor economy, much less taught to understand “Money Matters”. Most of us needed help in areas like these.
We were not attacking you – just trying to put you back in place where you should belong, Jeffrey.
We do appreciate if you could value-add instead of going off-track, that you could enlighten instead of misleading the many of us by going round & round the loop of analysis paralysis, that you could speak senses instead of shooting blanks.
Again, please give us helpful perspective, Jeffrey.
We collectively believe you may not have intended to mislead the discussion in this forum towards a senseless arguments, shooting blanks, and what’s not.
Honestly, we would hereby like to welcome you to take the very first meaningful step in the right direction, the right course, the right track i.e.
Have a great day, Jeffrey …
ReplyI too have heard something like this, a 4 days delay but its from the time of submitsion, now seems its from case to case basis.
ReplyDari Sakinchang is right in the sense that there was a move by the Senior Operations Manager of SGV to re-schedule the physical handing over of the gold after the receipt of payment by SGV. However the duration of the delay in handing over of physical gold may not be accurately reflected in the posting as there are various time-tables depending on the mode payment.
The main poit here are as follows :
1. The company had implemented the “new procedures” arbitrary without consultation with its agents;
2. “In the interest of maintaining the gold trading platform”, all changes are made mainly to benefit and protect the interest of a clique while treating the others including its customers with contempt;
2. The company treat its agents with contempt, prefering to invite “potential customers” to its launching of the Syariah Compliant platform instead of its agents. The company has to remember very clearly who are bringing in customers. Well, contempt breeds contempt.
This is a Forum and “Voices above Noises” or is it “Noises to surpress voices” is acting as if he the only smart alack in town. Please remember what Confucius said about “He who Knows ………………
There are those who knows that they know,
when they speak, they lead
There are those who knows that they don’t know,
so they choose not to speak, for fear they may mislead.
Then, there are those who don’t even know that they don’t know,
YET they speak, and hence they mislead.
Where do you belong, Jeffrey?
You have really spoken a lot, a lot. A lot, indeed!
First, all your theories on regulations, then your claims of liabilities, scams, and what’s not.
Now, contempt …
What’s next, Jeffrey?
=====================
We are pretty sure we are not the only group that discuss this forum outside of this forum and congratulation to you, Jeffrey. Your name are being repeatedly mentioned whenever this forum are discussed elsewhere and we are glad your reputations are ahead of you. You will know sooner or later what the public opinion about what you’ve posted herein – in a self-righteous manner, they said. Got the clue now?
=====================
Both our advice & attitude are that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, much broader than what you’re holding now and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Will you be proud or on the contrary, be ashamed of what you’re posted herein, say 5-years from now? Let’s begin with the end-in-mind – Stephen R. Covey.
Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE, IGNORANCE (mostly IGNORANCE), EGO & STUPIDITY fooled us?
What we don’t understand doesn’t means they are not genuine, not real, scandalous, etc.
Think with a cool head, Jeffrey and STOP being a smart alack here. We have read a lot of your posting by now. What surprised us is the fact that NONE of us were even slightly impressed with your arguments, points, opinions, theories, what’s now. None! Are you not surprised, Jeffrey.
Hence, we checked with several other groups and results? Same! None are even slightly enlightened. Their take? – you may have erred and you may have mistakenly, even ignorantly done all these and their conclusion? It’s okay, everybody errs, everybody is ignorantly at one time or another. Everybody has spoken too much without thinking at one time or another. That’s fine. It’s just not enlightening, far from impressive, and foremost, not helpful at all.
You see, Jeffrey,
We have advised you that if you want to be noble, be noble. If you want to be helpful, be helpful. The consensus being – you were not, you are not, and you will probably not be! hmm …
ReplyDear Vincent,
Can you please do yourself a GREAT favor herein? Please … ?
Please go back to school and learn economy + finance. All your frustrations will be CLEARED there & then. Please save yourself from this utter embarrassment herein by telling the whole wide world how IGNORANT, financially ILLITERATE the foremost and INCOMPETENT you are when come to understanding basic financial matters such as this one highlighted by yourself herein.
Your skepticism actually rooted in your ILLITERACY and nothing else, Vincent. That means, you are seriously being financially illiterate. Just go back to school and you’ll understand. It’s so basic and yet you’re trying to tell the whole wide world what you don’t understand and you’re doing it like a crying baby. Oh, my God!
I really don’t meant to insult you .. honestly.
If you want to do something, do something. For e.g., please highlight these concerns of yours to the Monetary Authority of Singapore, MAS and see how’s their response to you or approach Bank Negara Malaysia, BNM if you’re a Malaysian and see what they got to tell you.
From now on, please read on Bloomberg esp. and educate yourself very QUICKLY. What you don’t understand doesn’t mean they are not genuine or real.
In short, just please save yourself from making a FOOL of yourself in a forum like this one. Please, for heaven’s sake or whatever, Vincent. Can you please do that, Vincent?
Thanks a million, Vincent.
ReplyYou are right, it will offend the Syariah compliance but it seems they dont give a damm,however they are proceeding with it.If they do that will make Teh Hong Piao’s people very happy.Finally they are screwing themselves up.
ReplyXavier & Jeffery,
We really wonder if you guys are doing this in the right forum, esp. Jeffrey with his verbal diarrhea nowadays seems to be more cautious not to carelessly embarrass himself again anymore in this wide world forum making baseless allegations after baseless allegations, that are strictly based on his very own assumptions. Bravo! Awesome! Wonderful!
Jeffrey, have you tired already from making further allegations and imposing your very personal opinions and theories, trying to impress the rest of us as though we have no wisdom unless we feed on your theories, and as though you wish to lead the rest of us into an ANALYSIS PARALYSIS with your God knows what calculations, derivations, assumptions and what’s not?
We shall hold you accountable for each and every assumption you made, each and every theory you brought to this forum and more. You may count on that, Jeffrey. We shall make you accountable to time indefinite. That’s called “accountability” on top of your call for “transparency”. These shall go hand-in-hand, don’t you agree?
Just in the name of “accountability”. Nothing personal here.
====================
We were too, invited to tonight’s dinner cum launch and we shall see what comes out of it thereafter.
Let’s see what the regulators’ next contemplated moves, shall we?
Try not to be the smart alack, Jeffrey. Enough is enough, with your verbal diarrhea and self-righteousness, not knowing that you’re robbing off the investing public such as myself the very opportunities to build wealth, to re-allocate our portfolios.
=====================
If you want to be noble, be noble.
And if you want to be helpful, be helpful.
At the same time, if you want to show off your investigation skill & knowledge, you should work with & in the Securities Commission.
If you want to impress other with your off-track reasonings, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not try IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Why not try FEEDING ON SENSELESS THEORIES? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
Our attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE, IGNORANCE, EGO & STUPIDITY fooled us? Bravo! “Cemerlang”, as a Malay friend of me told.
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures, theories, opinions, allegations, assumptions, suspicions help at all? Yeah, maybe they help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
===================
Come on, guys. Who do you think you are? Angels sent by God to save people from the scams of Samudra-Genneva?
To Xavier, may we know why Teh Hong Piao’s people are involved in this forum? Did they ask you to bring them into light in this forum? Are you representing Teh Hong Piao & his people? What’s your point and your take on this, Xavier?
To Teh Hong Piao & his people (aha, this can turn serious):
Can you please participate in this forum also? Else, there might be people like Xavier who may feel and think (I admit I assumed) that they have every right to quote, to use and to bring you people into this discussion in this forum without your consent, I believe.
To Xavier, please be assured that we will make sure “Teh Hong Piao & his people” get to know that you make mention of them here in this forum. We are not sure if they may be happy with you mentioning them and involving them herein, Xavier but you may count on that, Xavier.
Our take herein is that we don’t wish to take this personal. And we don’t want to take it personal too. We don’t wish nor intend to insult nor to attack anybody. Just weigh both the takes and the consequences before we shoot, i.e.
We may have ignorantly thought we are trying to be helpful and on the other hand, we may have IGNORANTLY rob the investing public the very opportunity to do good. Come on, think through and through about this, guys.
How can we be so damn right that we try make others so damn wrong? How can we be so damn righteous so as to make other seems so scary, so scandalous, so unrighteous, unjust, etc.? How can we be so damn self-righteous so as not to see the other side of the equation, i.e the consequences of robbing the investing public off from the very opportunity to do good? How can we? How can we!?
Xavier and Jeffrey, we appreciative that you give your very, very thoughtful reply. Please don’t simply shoot before your very thoughtful considerations of the repercussions from the public as this’ a very, very public forum.
Who knows “Teh Hong Piao & his people” may be onto this forum much earlier than expected. Who knows “Teh Hong Piao & his people” may even issue a public statement regarding their stand and their take? My guess is, we may not know.
All the best to both Xavier and Jeffrey
ReplyTo Xavier, may we know why Teh Hong Piao’s people are involved in this forum? Did they ask you to bring them into light in this forum? Are you representing Teh Hong Piao & his people? What’s your point and your take on this, Xavier?
To Teh Hong Piao & his people (aha, this can turn serious):
Can you please participate in this forum also? Else, there might be people like Xavier who may feel and think (I admit I assumed) that they have every right to quote, to use and to bring you people into this discussion in this forum without your consent, I believe.
To Xavier, please be assured that we will make sure “Teh Hong Piao & his people” get to know that you made mention of them herein this forum. We are not sure if they may be happy with you mentioning them and involving them herein, Xavier but you may count on that, Xavier.
Our take herein is that we don’t wish to take this personal. And we don’t want to take it personal too. We don’t wish nor intend to insult nor to attack anybody. Just weigh both the takes and the consequences before we shoot, i.e.
We may have ignorantly thought we are trying to be helpful and on the other hand, we may have IGNORANTLY rob the investing public the very opportunity to do good. Come on, think through and through about this, Xavier.
How can we be so damn right that we try make others so damn wrong? How can we be so damn righteous so as to make other seems so scary, so scandalous, so unrighteous, unjust, etc.? How can we be so damn self-righteous so as NOT to see the other side of the equation, i.e the consequences of robbing the investing public off from the very opportunity to do good? How can we? How can we!?
ReplyHey Xavier, may we know why did you implicate Teh Hong Piao & his people in this forum? Did they ask you to bring them into this forum? Are you representing Teh Hong Piao & his people? What’s your point and your take on this, Xavier?
You are yet to give your thoughts on this, pal.
Replylooks like the company is going to announce some drastic changes, one of which will be delayed delivery of gold 3-4 days after clearance of customer’s cheque. i wonder why do they implement that? didnt i thought for syariah compliance they should not do that?
ReplyDear “Dari Sekinchan”,
I’ve three (3) questions for you ..
1. Where do you get the news from? Name a credible source herein, please.
2. What are your concerns? And why are you making so much assumptions?
3. Have you checked & verified with BNM as well as the SC in M’sia? If not, why not? If not yet, then when are you going to?
Please revert with your very thoughtful answer, pal.
Reply
Hi i am interested to join as an agent. pls email me at [email protected]
Reply
I am very skeptical about this….
The reason why it’s still operating because Gold price is not dropping, on the contrary it is rising. We will only see the real impact when gold price starts to drop. How will they support the payout? Even if they could pay you 10 mths of 2% (from the 20% more from actual gold price), will they be able continue paying? How long is the payment supposed to be? I heard from a friend it’s mentioned that the 2% in not guaranteed. So we will surely see the drastic reduction (hopefully there is still payout) when gold price starts to drop.
Else, how could a company survive without any other source of income?
PS: If I could earn MORE THAN 24% NETT profit myself, without risk, I dont think any BANKS in the World would turn me down when I ask for loans. Even with bank loans with interest at 10%, 15%, I will still be earning …. in that case, why should I go through all the trouble to get people to invest with me?
I asked the same question to the previous SCAM company I attended the talk, and the “sales” person cannot answer me. He just showed me numerous of “successful” people whom had joined them. From bus drivers to housewifes earning big bucks, doing nothing much. Few months later, the owner of the company was arrested and the company was closed. The company OFFICE was a HUGE one in Toa Payoh.
ReplyDear Vincent , O Vincent
Can you please do yourself a GREAT favor herein? Please … We beg you
Please go back to school and learn economy + finance. All your frustrations will be CLEARED there & then. Please save yourself from this utter embarrassment herein by telling the whole wide world how IGNORANT, financially ILLITERATE the foremost and INCOMPETENT you are when come to understanding basic financial matters such as this one highlighted by yourself herein.
Your skepticism actually rooted in your very own ILLITERACY and nothing else, Vincent. That means, you are seriously being financially illiterate. And that’s SERIOUS matters! Just go back to school and you’ll understand. It’s so basic and yet you’re trying to tell the whole wide world what you don’t understand and you’re doing it like a crying baby. Oh, my God!
I really don’t meant to insult you .. honestly.
If you want to do something, do something. For e.g., please highlight these concerns of yours to the Monetary Authority of Singapore, MAS and see how’s their response to you or approach Bank Negara Malaysia, BNM if you’re a Malaysian and see what they got to tell you.
From now on, please read on Bloomberg esp. and educate yourself very QUICKLY. What you don’t understand doesn’t mean they are not genuine, not real or even scandalous. Think again.
In short, just please save yourself from making a FOOL of yourself in a forum like this one. Please, for heaven’s sake or whatever, Vincent. Can you please do that, Vincent?
Thanks a million, Vincent
ReplyDear Vincent , O Vincent
Have you re-visit / done your research on the subjects of economy + finance? All your frustrations will be CLEARED there & then.
Your skepticism actually rooted in your very own ILLITERACY and nothing else, Vincent. That means, you are seriously being financially illiterate. And that’s SERIOUS matters!
We may probably need to go back to school and you’ll understand it then. It’s so basic and yet you’re crying to tell the whole wide world what you don’t understand. Oh, my God!
We really don’t meant to insult you .. honestly.
From now on, please read on Bloomberg esp. and educate yourself very QUICKLY. What you don’t understand doesn’t mean they are not genuine, not real or even scandalous. Think again, Vincent.
Reply
Now they open branch in Indonesia with dato Zahari Sulaiman as the chairman. is ther anyone know this dato?
http://www.goldentradersinternational.com/our.management.team.php
ReplyDear Jimmy,
Are you sure you got the right issue with the right focus to discuss herein? How sure are you that you’re not barking up the wrong tree and try to insult all other readers to this forum?
Enlighten, please ..
ReplyDear Voice above Noises,
Looks like you are suffering from verbal diarrhoea and keeps making the pssss… sound. Like what Shakespierre wrote in Macbeth “All sound and fury, signifying nothing”. This is the favourite APCO tactic to repeat until people falls for it to be the truth. Your masters in SGV needs you so please try to retain your credibility if there is any left.
ReplyDont know much about these schemes but they bear a lot of resemblance to the marketing of land banking. Lost of waffle on the product and talk about the market but nothing on the key points
Where is your money now (security)
What is it worth (returns)
How easily can you get to it. (liquidity)
An investment is only ever worth its exit point (unless you can use it as collateral for other investments). If you are rolling over you better be damn sure the money is really there and its not just a number on a computer screen
Ask any investor in a land banking or lubricant investment scheme that has been promised 25% per year returns and has rolled over several times for greater profit only to find out they cant exit because all the money is gone.
The whole thing smells bad to me.
.
ReplyTo Steve F, you yourself admitted that you don’t know much about these, which you chose to call “schemes”.
It is more prudent and dignified of you to do your homework first before you shoot blanks here.
In a nutshell, you are speaking nonsense. Sorry for that ..
Talking about “exit”? That’s where we suggest that you saved yourself some dignity and from the embarrassment by DOING YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST. FIRST, NOT SECOND, NOT THEREAFTER!
The whole thing smells bad to you? That’s because you smelled the wrong thing! Check your nose with a ENT (Ear, Nose, Throat) doctor!
Nothing worse than talking about a subject you barely know and hardly done any homework on. Oh, my God!
ReplyGenerally I find that those that use personal attacks to defend an investment scheme do so because the investment scheme itself cannot be defended.
Some items that would raise concern for me on Genneva Gold
1: They use a name that sounds like something you are familiar with but is not quite the same (Geneva is a famous global investment centre )
2: Their website is very simplistic and has no detail
3: Their schemes are often being offered by people with hotmail addresses through internet blog sites
4: Their FAQ does not answer any of the FAQ i have seen being asked
5: I have not seen reference to anyone who has taken their “discounted” gold and sold it on the open market at a profit
6: Why discount gold – they dont need to
7: “Genneva Gold Investigation” and “Genneva Gold Scam” are the 4th and 5th selections for google if you type Genneva gold in. There are a lot of concerned searchers out there.
8: They have “consultants” to sell gold bars
The exit value of an investment that has no utility is the only important point in its life. Everything else is just noise.
ReplyThat’s all from you? Please keep them coming. Please keep making a fool of yourself for all of us are enlighten by the way you did it. Can you please keep doing it, we beg you.
You’ve still not done your homework before you open your mouth, simply put. What else are there from you?
ReplyThe “Park-in” had their money frozen since 21/07/2009 and with the on-going court cases, it may drag for a while. Since the next date fixed by the court for the trial of the directors under AMLA is 04/04/2011, it may be 2 years at the earliest before Genneva accounts get unfrozen.
If the RM20 million and 5 kg of gold is sufficient to cover the money collected under the “park-in” scheme, why should Genneva GV ask its “customers” to roll for at least 6 months after the unfreezing before withdrawing? In the first place, isn’t Genneva suppose to be holding the gold in trust for its customers, since the customers had paid for the gold. Maybe, the “park-in” only attracted customers to the tune of 5 kg of gold and the RM20 million is actually Genneva’s own fund.
The analogy of the car accident is totally irrelevant, as the driver, is supposed to be in control of the car. In the case of Samudra GV, the customers are persuaded to go into a non transparent company based on their trust of the agent who are paid handsomely to bring these customers in and who at no time is in control of their destiny as far as their gold buying is concerned. Moreover, there is the BNM factor. Being a legal entity or business doesn’t not prevent the entity from commiting illegal acts or from being investigated for illegal acts.
As I had said many times, owning gold gives shelter from inflation and national currencies which are depreciating fast. However, one has to be very careful to avoid the many get rich fast schemes which are hitching onto the gold sentiment to avoid the many pitfalls and heartaches. The agents of these companies will paint a very attractive picture for you just so that they can collect their fat commission.
Well, well, well .. You begin to tell little more each time I press further for explaination, Jeffrey but not enlightening as you still failed to present it in broader perspective, in big picture.
You are definitely very well-informed but not very noble, not very helpful – I hope I am wrong.
Are you trying to lead the investing public somewhere?
===
The example of car accident, I would insist is relevant due to the WILLING BUYER – WILLING SELLER concept. Do you have the appropriate legalese for this, Jeffrey? I guess you do, instead of calling it a concept. You’ve showed me your prowness in legalese.
You called for transparency. Great! I like that proposition.
Let’s start with yourself first, Jeffrey.
I am beginning to read more & more into this blog and found you “mysterious” with a serious lacks of transparency in your approach and in all your arguments. You seems to like to pin all the arguments down towards analysis paralysis with bits of info. here & there only whenever they suit your arguments.
That’s why I said you failed to give a complete picture, a big picture, a broad perspective of what the hell all these about!
I am, in fact, a member of the investing public and my agenda, I want to be noble and what I see & read herein, to certain extent, disgusting, annoying, even sickening – many of these akin to analysis paralysis, mostly led by your opinions and arguments.
If you want to be noble, be noble.
And If you want to be helpful, be helpful.
At the same time, if you want to show off your investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
If you want to impress other with your off-track reasoning, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
ReplyAnyone here who wants to be noble, be noble.
and anyone here who wants to be helpful, be helpful.
On the contrary, anyone who want to reveal to the whole wide world that they are hopelessly IGNORANT and make a fool out of themselves, please be my guest too.
At the same time, those who want to show off their investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
For those who want to impress other with their off-track reasonings, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
The usual excuse I observed:
“Oh, I just want to share something here so that the reader can make their own judgement”?
My advice to you – keep these CRABS with yourself!
ReplyAgree with Jeff, legal doesnt mean superior, Should there be any fault arise ,the ‘tai-kor’ will still come.
ReplyDear Voices above Noises,
Up to the time when Genneva GV Sdn. Bhd. was raided, the 2 main “trading” platforms are :
1. 2.5% rebate per month and gold changing hand with money paid;
2. 4.5% rebate per month for “Parked-in” customers. Money paid but gold is “parked” in Genneva. From 21/07/2009, these customers do not get their rebate paid or their money “refunded” or get the gold which they have paid for. That is where the estimation of RM50 million collected from the customers which is still outstanding. As I mentioned, the RM50 million is an estimate. It may be more or it may be less, but can it be at the RM20 million + 5 kilo of gold? Any Genneva agents out there who can help?
Regarding the purity of the gold sold, the 1 Kg bars are 999.9 purity hallmark gold and the same for some 500 gram bars. For the 5 grams, 10 grams, 20 grams, 50 grams and 100 grams they have the Genneva/Samudra logo and are guaranteed 999.5 purity.
Regarding Samudra GV October sales, let us use your figure of RM110 million of new sales and the rollover sales of RM450 million and assume profit at 25% based on the Gold Beam prices,
Profit at 25% of RM110 million = RM27.5 million;
Less agent’s commission = RM5.3 million*
Less rebate at average 2.25% = RM12.6 million**
Less Overheads at 2% = RM11.2 million***
Gross profit = -RM1.6 million
Assuming SGV makes 10%pm = RM27.5 x 10% = RM2.75 m
Net profit = RM2.75 – RM1.6 = RM1.15 m
* Figure given by you
** Average of 2.0% and 2.5% and not counting 2.7%
*** Assumed overheads
I am not debating and I do not have any hidden agenda, just presenting facts for our readers to make their own judgement.
I fully agree with you that in the current economic environment, gold holding is a very attractive preposition. However with Gold Beam, the price at which the gold is sold is presenting risks to the buyers should the the Company default on the “trade-in”. So buy from whosoever gives the best deal coming with the minimum risks.
To start with, one moment the Company is going to Syariah compliant leasing and factoring and the next move is Sales and purchase once they have set the 1.5% Hibah. In long term business and confidence building, consistency and transparancy are pre-requisites.
ReplyThanks for your further enlightenment once again, Jeffrey ..
I am actually looking forward to your very detailed explaination on the alleged deficits. May I know where you derive these figures? To date, it is only from you & you alone without any credible explaination as to where & how the alleged deficits came about.
=========================================
As you mentioned, the RM50 million is just an estimate?
That is where the estimation of RM50 million collected from the customers which is still outstanding? As you mentioned, the RM50 million is an estimate? It may be more or it may be less,
but can it be at the RM20 million + 5 kilo of gold? Hmm …
=========================================
I am sorry that your analysis (calculations) and your “warning” on the risks should the company defaults on the “trade-ins” did not impressed nor enlighten me at all.
To draw a parallel herein, it is like “there was a car accident somewhere yesterday, there was yet another car accident on the expressway earlier today – bla, bla, bla, bla & bla, bla, bla …”
The conlusion? Advise everybody to stop driving? Oh, no, I am only trying to present the facts and figure only for the reader to reach their own judgement? There are risks in the event of a car accident, you know? … and so on, so forth …
I am sorry, very sorry, Jeffrey. What the hell are your points?
You know these begins to sound like absolute crabs, you know. You’ve absolutely failed to give a balanced view, the so-called big picture, the broader perspective of things ought to be – pictures that are meaningfully-relevant and at the same time, relevantly-meaningful.
For those still doubtful and those sceptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived, virtual risks that they themselves may never fully understand, they may hsve just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
Worse still, they turn to the many self-proclaimed experts that misleads them further on with their labryinths of calculations, and more calculations and opinions and more opinions that meant what? – NOTHING!
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV or Genneva GV are not the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or mis-understanding) and our very own perception (or mis-conception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WITHIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Bravo!
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures help at all? Yeah, maybe help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
Jeffrey, why not divert your energy / energies to really seek in-depth understandings and derive some helpful, meaningful and relevant advice that enlighten? To date, what you have only adds to the confusions of the investing public instead of helping them.
# Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea )
6. Latest trend in both the Central Banks & Sovereign Funds worldwide increasing their respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
ReplyHi Jeff,
Thanks for all your posts, i find them informational and useful, do keep them coming! Cheers:)
Sorry, Investor.
To date, only the confused and the illiterates + the hopelessly ignorants are finding “them” informational & useful. How useful is useful and how do you yourself able to use “them” to your benefits should be the acid test to determine if these are truly useful.
Sorry that the whole things are crabs and nonsense, not helpful to any extent at all.
ReplyWe are trying to re-read your analysis above with lotsa assumptions built-in and found it full of nonsense, all built from your personal opinions and assumptions. Wanna see if there is any merit in it and sadly, we found none. – so akin to the signature of a smart alack!
On a more serious note, it really insults those who understand finance, costings and marketing. We believe you don’t, smart alack. You have only noises but no substance.
However, we shall encourage you to keep writing on so that we could have enough of your materials for post mortem later on.
ReplyThe case was mentioned on 16/11/2010 and according to Nanyang Siang Pau Was postphoned to 04/04/2011. The Directors have got their passport back after posting bond as Genneva have operations in other countries and the Directors need to oversee those operations. However, the assets in the frozen account will not be able to meet their liabilities to their customers. Since Genneva Sdn. Bhd. is a limited liability company, BNM should be investigating as to where the money had been transferred to and whether such transfer had been legally carried out (approved) and how the fund shortfall will affect the customers.
ReplyThanks for your further enlightenment, Jeffrey ..
Here you spoke of two (2) completely, separate business entities, the Genneva GV and Samudra-GV. Thank-you for clarifying that.
Were that news report dated back in Year 2009 then?
From my understanding, correct me if I got it wrong herein, the business model is very much trading-in-nature. Customers pay and customers get the 999.9 gold product as collateral. No deposit-taking and no “I owe you” in the form of liabilities. Correct?
The 2.0% profit-sharing is the deal offered, which I perceive as a lost opportunity in the event the company folds, instead of being categorized as the company’s liabilities to customers. That’s simply because the collaterals have always been with the customers themselves. Am i right herein, Jeffrey?
So, where comes the liabilities or deficits? Are we talking about the very same thing here? Could you please be generous and honest enough to enlighten us further as to how you derive the RM50.0-million in deficit deemed owed to customers; i.e. the uncles and the aunties who had their money tied up since 21/07/2009?
Appreciate that, Jeffrey.
BTW, what was the business model then in July 21st Y2009? Was it the same as IT IS today, i.e. very much trading-in-nature where customers pay and customers get?
Am really excited to receiving your crystal-clear explaination on the purported RM50.0-million liabilities or deficits and how did you categorise or define or derive them, Jeffrey.
Next, I beg to differ with you on your personal opinion that it is better for the company should BNM continue to freeze their account. That, I believe is stricly your very own opinion. You may then keep your opinion to yourself as that is clearly an insinuations of some kind that does not serve much helpful purposes as far as the investing public are concerned. The regulators are not lost when comes to deal with issues and events such as this. And I am quite certain these regulators may not agree with yoru thought herein as well.
… unless you do have an agenda to sow seeds of fear with the intention to discredit whoever for reasons best known to thyself.
No offence and nothing personal herein, Jeffrey. I am just insisting that we keep on asking the real questions, the pertinent one, the relevant one, the meaningful one, and keeping our head straights on issues that really matter herein. No deviations, please.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
FYI, I was briefed that their month of October’s sales alone amount to RM 113-million whereas commission paid to consultants amount to RM5.30-million. That was just for October – one month alone. And their directors are expecting personal incomes of approx. 1-million each from each countries per month and here you want to form a perception that they may not be able to pay the deficits of RM50.0-million (a figure that you are yet to explain how you came up with)
Here is my piece of thought:
For those still doubtful and those sceptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived risks that they may never fully understand, they may hsve just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV or Genneva GV are not the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or mis-understanding) and our very own perception (or mis-conception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WIHTIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. It you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Hmm …
Note: points to ponder over this coming weekend as we leave Year 2010 behind us … forever.
Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea )
6. Latest trend in Central Banks worldwide increasing respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
ReplyDear Voice above Noises,
My last paragraph has nothing to do with Samudra GV and is only relevant to Genneva GV. The news report at the time the Directors/ex-Director of Genneva were charged mentioned that the frozen assets of Genneva amounted to RM20 Million plus 5 Kg of Gold. However, Genneva still owes customers, from a casual count, maybe around RM50 Million. So if their suspension is lifted, Genneva will have to find money to make up the deficit. Isn’t it better then for BNM to continue the freeze as far as Genneva is concern, but it is really cruel to the customers, especially the uncles and aunties. This painful fact is known to most customers of Genneva/Samudra, especially those who had their money tied up since 21/07/2009.
ReplyDear Sam,
Don’t have to be abusive even if you do not agree but I can understand that since your analytical skill is limited you have to substitute logic with abuse. Without openning to accusation of Les Majesty, please note that our Agong is not in the executive branch of the Government and neither is TDM. Some members of the Royal families and Governors have patronised certain Gold trading companies and are being used to promote the business. Samudra GV started with telling all and sundry that they are into the Syariah Compliant Ijarah leasing model but now is heading towards the Sales & Purchase Model. Does the Syariah Compliance makes it more legal than what it is now? Why is SGV cutting down on the rebate? Are people more concern of the BNM threat or on the sustainability of the business? Who controls the Gold Bullion Entrepreneur Association of Malaysia and the setting of price of gold bullions at astronomical levels. The public should be aware that at the price set by the Association and at 1.5% rebate per month, for the first 11/2 years, the company is actually using the customer’s money to pay them and in the meantime is making profit from the gold appreciation. That is the reason SGV is paying their Senior Consultants handsomely to keep building up their sales. Syariah Compliant or not, BNM can still walk in with AMLA and BAFIA. Genneva is praying day and night that BNM will not lift the suspension on its business as they still owe customers near about RM50 million whilst in their frozen account is left onlyRM20 million and a few Kg of gold. Those customers should demand their money back as they had not been given what they paid for.
Hey Jeffrey, I have been reading this blog and fully agree that Sam shouldn’t be abusive in the first place. That painted a not-so-good picture of himself to begin with. You, on your part must not be over self-righteous too, the way I perceive it.
This subject herein truly transcends many spectrums and being in the financial-planning realm, I see things from yet another perspective too, i.e. from the angle of wealth & incomes, asset allocation & leveraging, etc.; financial-planning in short.
However, you’ve got it even with Sam by now with your better-than-average command in English and some showy display of your competency in those legalese (legal jargons) to the point of insinuating that he was trying to compensate his shortcomings by leveraging on some prominent figures’ credential.
However, due credit to you for being able to keep your head straight by focusing onto questions that matters – well, keep that up Jeffrey.
AMLAFTA and BAFIA or not, their recent court cases have all been dropped / dismissed and the High court’s decision does carry weight. Doesn’t it, Jeffrey?
* AMLAFTA denotes Anti Money Laundering and Financing of Terrorism Act whereas BAFIA denotes Banking and Financial Instituions Act.
Everybody does have a partial perspective of things, as I observe herein and so are you, Jeffrey. The public are not very well versed with these and may not be able to grasp the subject any deeper than some of us. Hence, I see no reason why you would want to give us an incomplete picture in your last paragraph. Was it meant to mislead the public, to discredit SGV or to get another round of getting even with Sam? That I don’t know …
You obviously knew a little more than the mjority and the rule of thumb herein is to keep them meaningfully-relevant and relevantly-meaningful. Your last paragraph have failed to do so, Jeffrey.
signing off
ReplySome of you here like to talk cock! Tun Mahathir and Yang Di-Pertuan Agung is launching SGV Malaysia in the next 2 weeks in case u all didnt know. Did Tun or Agung launch any funds or products by any banks lately?
ReplyAfter awhile, we admit we have newfound respect for your boldness with the smart alack above. He’s promoting analysis paralysis and he’s encouraging transparency without accountability. Bravo!
He’s even being worshiped as we are writing herein, but the “hopelessly ignorant”, and the “sadly illiterates”.
ReplyIf they claims they are getting approval from BNM, how long are they getting approved? As i remembered previously Sovereign applied approval from BNM for their so called FSA product took them ages, with excuse from the officer in charge being transfred to other dept and all those ding-donging around. The boss James kept telling us ‘very soon’ week after week. I seriously doubt any of those companies are getting approved anytime soon.
ReplyDear BaldGuy, you should really rename to theIlliterate,
For those still doubtful and those skeptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived, virtual risks that they themselves may never fully understand due to probable lacks of financial literacy, they may have just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
Worse still, they turn to the many self-proclaimed experts that mislead them further on with their labyrinths of calculations, and more calculations and opinions and more opinions that meant what? – NOTHING!
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV and Genneva GV are NOT the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or misunderstanding) and our very own perception (or misconception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WITHIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Bravo!
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures help at all? Yeah, maybe help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
Why not divert your energy / energies to really seek in-depth understandings and derive some helpful, meaningful and relevant advice that enlighten instead of only adding to the confusions of the investing public instead of helping them.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
# Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea ). What if Iran …
6. Latest trend in both the Central Banks & Sovereign Funds worldwide increasing their respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
Anyone herein who wants to be noble, be noble.
And anyone herein who wants to be helpful, be helpful.
On the contrary, anyone who wants to reveal to the whole wide world that they are hopelessly IGNORANT and make a fool out of themselves, please be my guest too.
At the same time, those who want to show off their investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
For those who want to impress other with their off-track reasoning, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
The usual excuse I observed:
“Oh, I just want to share something here so that the reader can make their own judgment”?
My advice to you – keep these CRABS with yourself!
ReplyFrom the reliable resources saying that so called owned by Berjaya bigshot company is expected to start sometime mid next year, which expected time of getting the license ready. Dimensi Sentosa is in the same timing of applications of license.
Some are saying that the company is not directly owned by him but he has share in it, so no one knows which is which. It may not use any name related to Berjaya.
Interested to know what your “reliable resources” have? Can they foretell the future? Que Sera, Sera … whatever will be ,will be?
Anyone out there who also have “reliable resources” who can expose everything here, pls.?
Reply
Has anyone ever heard Golden Traders International ? my friend said they have been operated in Jakarta Indonesia for 1,5 years. They also give rebates 1,5 % / month for 3 months, 2% / month for 6 month and 4,5% / month for 6 months (without holding gold). Are there anybody know the owners ?
Reply
Hi,
Have not heard of the company before. The 4.5% rebate per month are very attractive, but the risk is very high should the company collapse.
Reply
Hi,
All proof documents, related news, any Q&A you can visit facebook Page :
GOLD Fast Track To Success
Thanks
I am N.K.
I am ready to assist all of you. Any doubts, any questions… …
012-3397 195 N.K.
ReplyHi,
Sorry for late reply,
I am Gold Advisor from Samudra-GV Sdn Bhd.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/15/starprobe/4317875&sec=starprobe
Regards,
N.K
i hear all these so called new companies but i dont know of they really exists, anyone knows or can confirms if they exists and how to get connected to them?
ReplyFrom Ahmad Azmadi’s posting on 23/11/2010, it was inferred that it is a new company with the blessing of BNM offering 1.5% rebate for customers and 1-3% commission for agents. It should be an operating company and since the figures does not match that of any that I know of, it is infered that it refers to the company in VT stable.
ReplySince Dimensi is on leasing and B. Bullion are giving different agent’s commission and since Dimensi is still not in operation while B. Bullion is already doing business, it cannot be the same.
ReplyHi Mr.Jeff,
how do you know that B.Bullion is in operation now? The last i’ve checked none has started any operations yet.
ReplyCan Koperasi Samudra advise your scheme for the gold trade since you said that you are a competitor of SGV. maybe can e-mail me at [email protected]
ReplyKop Samudra scheme is 10% per year rebate with 1 year contract. 10% is paid one time when gold delivery and not monthly. We follow FGJAM pricing,similar like Gold Label, Product is PAMP hallmark from 100g to 1kg. Agents’ comm is at 2% nett per contract paid only once. Buy back after 1 year on purchase price with no reduction. In comparison with SGV or any other players out there would seems less attractive but we are fully legal.
Replywhat if customer choose 3 or 6 months ? how much is the rebate & the commission ?
Reply
what is the relationship between koperasi samudra and zahav mulqan, can you email more particular about the investment to me at [email protected] or maybe your h/p,thanks
ReplyThe way i look at it is pretty thypical chinaman way of management, cutting rebates and commissions to fulfill their own greed, then comes the GoldBeam to make more money out of the agents, it all spells greed, and greed will affect integrity. They claim they are above board, Gold Label was above board too and look what happened. The bottom line is, is it a must that you agents must stick to the same company regardless even if they squeeze your balls? Think about it.
ReplyDear Honda,
For those still doubtful and those skeptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived, virtual risks that they themselves may never fully understand due to probable lacks of financial literacy, they may have just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
Worse still, they turn to the many self-proclaimed experts that mislead them further on with their labyrinths of calculations, and more calculations and opinions and more opinions that meant what? – NOTHING!
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV and Genneva GV are NOT the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or misunderstanding) and our very own perception (or misconception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WITHIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Bravo!
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures help at all? Yeah, maybe help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
Why not divert your energy / energies to really seek in-depth understandings and derive some helpful, meaningful and relevant advice that enlighten instead of only adding to the confusions of the investing public instead of helping them.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
# Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea ). What if Iran …
6. Latest trend in both the Central Banks & Sovereign Funds worldwide increasing their respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
Anyone herein who wants to be noble, be noble.
And anyone herein who wants to be helpful, be helpful.
On the contrary, anyone who wants to reveal to the whole wide world that they are hopelessly IGNORANT and make a fool out of themselves, please be my guest too.
At the same time, those who want to show off their investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
For those who want to impress other with their off-track reasoning, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
The usual excuse I observed:
“Oh, I just want to share something here so that the reader can make their own judgment”?
My advice to you – keep these CRABS with yourself!
ReplyDimensi or B.Bullion? how come theres 2 companies out and deemed legal?
ReplyHey Dari Sekinchan,
For those still doubtful and those skeptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived, virtual risks that they themselves may never fully understand due to probable lacks of financial literacy, they may have just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
Worse still, they turn to the many self-proclaimed experts that mislead them further on with their labyrinths of calculations, and more calculations and opinions and more opinions that meant what? – NOTHING!
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV and Genneva GV are NOT the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or misunderstanding) and our very own perception (or misconception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WITHIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Bravo!
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures help at all? Yeah, maybe help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
Why not divert your energy / energies to really seek in-depth understandings and derive some helpful, meaningful and relevant advice that enlighten instead of only adding to the confusions of the investing public instead of helping them.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
# Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea ). What if Iran …
6. Latest trend in both the Central Banks & Sovereign Funds worldwide increasing their respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
Anyone herein who wants to be noble, be noble.
And anyone herein who wants to be helpful, be helpful.
On the contrary, anyone who wants to reveal to the whole wide world that they are hopelessly IGNORANT and make a fool out of themselves, please be my guest too.
At the same time, those who want to show off their investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
For those who want to impress other with their off-track reasoning, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
The usual excuse I observed:
“Oh, I just want to share something here so that the reader can make their own judgment”?
My advice to you – keep these CRABS with yourself!
ReplyDear Mr. Nathan Kadair,
Since the agents in SGV are so hard pressed, how about some help for them to head to B. Bullion.
ReplyIf u ask me, B.Bullion is Dimensi Sentosa. Owned by some powerful people as what i know.
ReplyThey dont need me to recruit them into any new company, there should be a discreet recruitment drive happening in within the SGV circle as we speak. In my experiance in Gold Label those days, the SGV agents had their discreet recruitment in the TGL circle, so those guys are smarter than you think.
Replyhi all, with regards of SGV and DS, i have personally contacted the chief from the investigation dept of BNM, none of any company is approved, those companies was mentioned had only recently submitted their application to BNM for approval. Which one is getting approval first is a “?” . It seems theres a whole lots of calls made to BNM to enquire if SGV is licensed, well guys , i guess u guys dont have to do that. The answer is not yet.
ReplyDear Magnum PI,
For those still doubtful and those skeptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived, virtual risks that they themselves may never fully understand due to probable lacks of financial literacy, they may have just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
Worse still, they turn to the many self-proclaimed experts that mislead them further on with their labyrinths of calculations, and more calculations and opinions and more opinions that meant what? – NOTHING!
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV and Genneva GV are NOT the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or misunderstanding) and our very own perception (or misconception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WITHIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Bravo!
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures help at all? Yeah, maybe help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
Why not divert your energy / energies to really seek in-depth understandings and derive some helpful, meaningful and relevant advice that enlighten instead of only adding to the confusions of the investing public instead of helping them.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
# Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea ). What if Iran …
6. Latest trend in both the Central Banks & Sovereign Funds worldwide increasing their respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
Anyone herein who wants to be noble, be noble.
And anyone herein who wants to be helpful, be helpful.
On the contrary, anyone who wants to reveal to the whole wide world that they are hopelessly IGNORANT and make a fool out of themselves, please be my guest too.
At the same time, those who want to show off their investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
For those who want to impress other with their off-track reasoning, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
The usual excuse I observed:
“Oh, I just want to share something here so that the reader can make their own judgment”?
My advice to you – keep these CRABS with yourself!
ReplyDimensi? Someone mentioned it before, romour has it the owner paid undertable of RM10m to legalising it, sounds like so VT.
Reply
Looks like this business is very easy to do.
Any Tom, Dick and Harry can do it.
Dont need any advertisement. Just rely on us agents for business.
Buy the gold using customers money and give them rebates using that money.
Must open one in every estate.
ReplyDear Golden Eye,
For those still doubtful and those skeptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived, virtual risks that they themselves may never fully understand due to probable lacks of financial literacy, they may have just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
Worse still, they turn to the many self-proclaimed experts that mislead them further on with their labyrinths of calculations, and more calculations and opinions and more opinions that meant what? – NOTHING!
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV and Genneva GV are NOT the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or misunderstanding) and our very own perception (or misconception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WITHIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Bravo!
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures help at all? Yeah, maybe help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
Why not divert your energy / energies to really seek in-depth understandings and derive some helpful, meaningful and relevant advice that enlighten instead of only adding to the confusions of the investing public instead of helping them.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
# Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea ). What if Iran …
6. Latest trend in both the Central Banks & Sovereign Funds worldwide increasing their respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
Anyone herein who wants to be noble, be noble.
And anyone herein who wants to be helpful, be helpful.
On the contrary, anyone who wants to reveal to the whole wide world that they are hopelessly IGNORANT and make a fool out of themselves, please be my guest too.
At the same time, those who want to show off their investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
For those who want to impress other with their off-track reasoning, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
The usual excuse I observed:
“Oh, I just want to share something here so that the reader can make their own judgment”?
My advice to you – keep these CRABS with yourself!
ReplyKoperasi Samudra Bhd is doing trading in various precious metals including Gold, but it is just like a normal Goldsmith shop which sells and buys gold and any rebate offered is a one time rebate at time of purchase. There are many companies doing similar business.
Nathan Kadair mentioned that there is a new player in the gold business with approval. Care to share your information. Could the company be Dimensi Sentosa? It will be good for general information. Thank you.
Dimensi Sentosa or Berjaya Bullion? Or maybe it is the same but we know it in different names? All i know is it is legalised above board and belonging to a big shot, i mean a really big shot. The rebates is no better than SGV but the agents commision is the best. To join them theres no need to purchase or exams, they follow Gold Label’s model when it comes to recruitment protocol.
Replyyes u are right, the new co does belongs to Berjaya boss but they dont use Berjaya’s name.
Reply
Kop Samudra is a competitor to SGV, we are fully legal with black and white issued by BNM since 2009. I was also told that Vincent Tan is starting up Berjaya Bullion,I was also told he had a negotiation or partnership proposal with us sometime back but we declined. I think Nathan Kadair is refering to that new company with the commision structure starts from 1% per month every month until 3% max while rebates at 1.5%. If SGV agents are not happy with the new commision structure should look elsewhere. Knowing Tan Sri’s abilities, if he can legalise TOTO he can legalise this.
Replyi m with Koprasi, i m only advising for those who complain about SGV comm cut can look into the new company.
ReplyYup correct! Clients trust the gold and listens to agents, its not so much on the company, they will follow where ever you go.
ReplyHi all the gold ppl, i found this company Koprasi Samudra Bhd. Also dealing with gold investment. Is it link to SGV? Anyone knows?
ReplyGold trading is a legitimate non regulated business and is governed like all businesses by good governance, a sound business platform and integrity.
Any business enterprises is subject to supply and demand and where there is a demand, business will blossom.
From precedence of Genneva, Etikamas and The Gold Label Bank Negara raid is based on suspicion under the Anti Money Laundering Act (AMLA) and the Banks and Financial Institutions Act (BAFIA) and no business is exempted from these Acts be it regulated or un-regulated.
There are many gold trading companies doing business with monthly rebates and some of them has attractive prices at which they sell their gold and giving very good rebates of 2.5%.
High returns comes with risks, but as long as the customer is holding on to pure gold, preferable hallmark gold (999.9 ourity),
the risks may be acceptable. Most of them offer good commissions for agents and some even goes through marketing agents. Samudra GV may be going to the new leasing platform using a sister company but details are not fully available. As I said, agents should unite. to avoid being subjected to the whim and fancies of the gold trading companies. “All for one and one for all”.
Why you agents allows the company to bully you? Is either you all appose and stand up for your rights or move on to the other companies, Jeff is right, SGV has no solid black and white from the authoraties,it proves nothing until it they present it in solid form. BNM can still raid them if any hickups uccurs.
ReplyThere will be a new player in the market soon, legal with approval and who says SGV is the only legal ones in the market?
From what i know the new company is paying agents more than 0.7 a month every month.
what is the % commission of agents in Genneva Singapore? Anyone knows?
Replyo.7% per month , no change otherwise they will lose their agents to their competitors for sure. I just want to know whats the odds with the other existing gold companies in Malaysia on BNM raiding them? Otherwise it makes sense to move over since SGV do not appreciate their agents.
ReplyDear Y2KW,
The mark up is the profit the Company makes in selling the gold to customers.
The Gold Bullion Entrepreneur Association of Malaysia was “created” by Samudra GV to create windfall profit for the company at the point of sale of the gold to customers. Previously, the profit marjin was 20% when it was using the Federation of Goldsmiths and Jewellers Association of Malaysia (FGJAM). The gold wholesalers will charge you 5-6% margin but no monthly rebates.
So for the first year at least, your are just recovering from the marjin the company marked up on their selling price – in case the company folds-up or gets suspended. When the rebate goes down to 1.5% per month your “at risk” period climbs to18-20 months. Always remember, however the gold price goes up, you only get back the money you paid for the gold. When Samudra GV goes into “leasing”. you can’t even sell your gold outside, because the gold is leased to you. There will be a real problem of the “leased gold” if the company cease operation for whatevever reason. Take care and happy gold buying.
At 2% per month : 15 months before cost recovery.
But they are giving you 2% in returns immeditely the following month, how did they sustained the company?
Still confused by your calculation. Seems like you have to pay for something higher cost than market price.
Then you enjoy the difference payback every month as profit gain, sharing the joy and start to getting new ‘intake’ to this scheme? Too good and too smart to be true….
Dear YK2W,
For those still doubtful and those skeptics who may try unceasingly to seek some form of assurance against their perceived, virtual risks that they themselves may never fully understand due to probable lacks of financial literacy, they may have just seriously MISSED THE POINT. No point debating any further if we do miss the point.
Worse still, they turn to the many self-proclaimed experts that mislead them further on with their labyrinths of calculations, and more calculations and opinions and more opinions that meant what? – NOTHING!
# we are now face-to-face with an unprecedented opportunity created by a collective worldwide events (details listed in point forms several paragraph beneath). Samudra-GV and Genneva GV are NOT the issue herein. It can be any other ABC or XYZ company that happened to deal with this opportunity, if not this one.
So, would you or shall we target our debates on the ABC or XYZ company … and MISSED THE POINT, again?
Our very understanding (or misunderstanding) and our very own perception (or misconception) of what’s happening are the real culprits playing in our mind, with drastic consequences of course, that will seriously determine if the investing public will be better off or worse off with their actions or inactions created by this opportunity and by listening to or by not listening to so much of noises (God knows with whatever hidden agendas) trying to achieve ‘don’t know what’ – ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
THESE NOISES WITHIN US ARE THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.
Continuously debating on the company’s matters is tantamount to barking up the wrong tree. If you still think that the opportunity’s risky, why not ry IGNORANCE instead? Why not try FEAR? Why not try INCOMPETENCE? Have you asked yourself why are you looking at this in the first place? Why … ?
My attitude is that – let’s see things IN broader PERSPECTIVE, and probably IN RETRO-PERSPECTIVE as well. Ponder over it and make some sensible conclusions on the matter while continue to learn more of it and then ask – what did we missed along the way? Have our very own FEAR, INCOMPETENCE & IGNORANCE fooled us? Bravo!
Hmm … not listening still? or prefer to feed on stupid theories, unsolicited opinions and more theories (or noises)?
One acid test – Does all these so-called facts & figures help at all? Yeah, maybe help to confuse further, if not to mislead further.
Rule-of-thumb: be meaningfully-relevant and be relevantly-meaningful.
Why not divert your energy / energies to really seek in-depth understandings and derive some helpful, meaningful and relevant advice that enlighten instead of only adding to the confusions of the investing public instead of helping them.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
# Cumulative / collective reasons that augur well with the increase in Gold price as a trend
=======================================
1. The US government policy on QE & QE2, the Quantitative Easing Policy till Year 2015, i.e. printing more and more paper monies thus creating inflation to enhance exports. * Government creates inflation
2. Chinese government’s decision to increase holding in Gold to exceed that of Germany’s instead of holding US Government Bonds, yet worldwide mining production lingers around 1,500 metric tones per annum only. It may takes the Chinese government till Year 2015 to achieve that. * Source – Ministry of Finance, China
3. Financial troubles in Europe with the banking system within the PIIGS countries, namely Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that requires bail-outs to contain the persistent, negative effects on the Euro.
4. Currency Wars on a worldwide scale between countries across continents
5. Military confrontations between the Koreans ( North Korea versus South Korea ). What if Iran …
6. Latest trend in both the Central Banks & Sovereign Funds worldwide increasing their respective Gold inventories. * Source – IMF
7. Festivities demands from many traditional Chinese and Indians since civilizations.
8. Natural disasters such as tsunami, earthquakes, SARS, epidemics, outbreaks, even piracies, etc.
Note: A trend, a pattern or a fashion is defined as the general direction, tendency or inclination in which something tends to move. It is created by many reasons put together, much like the Jeans business in the 70’s, the cell-phone business in the 80’s and so on, so forth and unlike fads (temporary phenomenon), they lasts much, much longer. Whereas a scam is a deceitful means, a fraudulent deal to victimize, to deprive of by deceit, to embezzle, including the use but not limited to, fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, forged documents, forged evidences, et cetera.
Anyone herein who wants to be noble, be noble.
And anyone herein who wants to be helpful, be helpful.
On the contrary, anyone who wants to reveal to the whole wide world that they are hopelessly IGNORANT and make a fool out of themselves, please be my guest too.
At the same time, those who want to show off their investigation knowledge herein should work in the Securities Commission.
For those who want to impress other with their off-track reasoning, please do your homework and be relevant, be meaningful. Be relevantly-meaningful and be meaningfully-relevant, i.e.
But please do not rob the investing public a very precious opportunity to build wealth. They didn’t solicit for your unsolicited opinions, advice, comments and theories, do they?
You didn’t have the right too, do you?
The usual excuse I observed:
“Oh, I just want to share something here so that the reader can make their own judgment”?
My advice to you – keep these CRABS with yourself!
ReplyDear Y2KW,
Before you make any profit, the first principle in accounting is to cover your cost.
Remember, the seller had marked up the gold he is selling to you by as much as 30%. Take an example on Friday 18/11/2010 :
Samudra GV selling price : RM171 per gram
USD to RM : 3.152
Ounce to gram conversion : 31.1034768 gram
LME spot price : USD1,362 per ounce
RM per gram : 1354 x 3.152/31.1034768
= RM137 per gram
171/137% : 1.25
Mark up : 25%
Selling expenses : 5%
At 2% per month : 15 months before cost recovery.
Assumptions : 1. Gold price remain static
2. The company is no longer doing business or
willing to honour re-purchase.
If gold market keeps going up, customer has to top up for the same amount of gold. If gold market goes down, the value of the gold held will automatically goes down.
KNOW YOUR RISKS AND MANAGE YOUR RISKS.
Not Genneva GV Singapore but Samudra GV Malaysia’s Bumiputra partner started cutting down the commission payable to their consultants/Senior consultants.
ReplyAny one can conclude this simple calculation wright or wrong:
Initial investment to buy a ‘gold bar’, say RM10K
Then 2% rebate monthly, 24% per annum. Meaning to say that I will gain 100% profit in 50 months. (RM10K + gold bar worth RM10K or maybe higher later if u sell it to open market)
If this are correct, then our government should appoint an invesment co. to invest all tax payers money + EPF to this business, or rather run this business by themselves. Such ‘guaranteed’ high returns investment, who cares BURSA Index up or down, what GDP index that confusing u & me, inflation % that far away ahead our salary increament, toll fees & petro price that up & up, bla..bla…
If this are wrong, then anyone can show me how to calculate this simple mathematics? Please….
ReplyHi,
Heard from agents that directors are cleared from the charges and got their passports back. Anyone heard similar news?
Case of Directors being charged postphoned to double 4, 2011
There are many companies in the gold business which are legal but doing business using different platforms.
Goldsmiths, bank and bullion traders buys and sells physical gold and coins (Maple Leaf, Gold Eagles, etc);
Banks sells passbook gold and ETFs are doing a roaring business;
Gold trading companies sell gold and offer rebates.
It is just between a regulated, semi-regulated or non-regulated business but while BNM had used the both BAFIA and AMLA as “reasons” for the raids on Genneva, Etikamas and The Gold Label, AMLA is still applicable even for companies doing Syariah Compliant Ijarah leasing.
If the Ijarah leasing company feels that it is the only outfit monopolizing the gold bullion market, let it put on its thinking cap before seeing its market share going to its competitors. Agents are those who brings in the business and if they do not work for the East bosses, they can work for the West bosses.
Maybe agents can set up an association for the gold business instead of having to “bend” to the whims and fancies of the gold companies.
Hi Jeff,
You mentioned Case of Directors being charged postphoned to double 4, 2011 – what’s the date again? Thanks
hey Jeff,
In your opinion, how safe are the other gold companies? I think you are right, if SGV gets too cocky, we can just switch or clients at a snap of the fingers, just like how previously Sovereign switch their clients from Genneva to Gold Label, they did in just a flash.
Reply
Now the rebates in SGV has cut to 1.5% from next week onwards while agents’ commission cuts by half. All the agent cry foul but theres the way it is when the company knows they are the only one legal in the market. Are the agents going to unite to oppose on the commision cut?
ReplyHi,
Do you mean “Samudra GV” or “Singapore GV” is cutting the discount and agent rates? I am from Singapore but did not hear my agent mention about this. Thanks.
ReplySingapore GV wont even dare to do that, theres a lot of competition in Singapore, unlike Malaysia, only BNM cronies gets the cake.
Reply