Martin Lee @ Sg
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Wine – A Palatable Investment by Saeed Shah

The first talk at the Smart Expo that I attended was delivered by Saeed Shah, the sales director of Australian Wine Index (AWI).

Australian Wine Index is a fine wine broker which sources and purchases fine Australian wine for investors. They will also help to find suitable storage space for your wine, and advise you on different exit strategies when the time is ripe.

The reasons given by Saeed why we should invest in wine include:

  • Wine has outperformed other investments.
    • Recent UK report by Wine Asset Managers (WAM)
    • Return of 16% over last 7 years
  • Wine is a relatively low risk investment.
  • Finite commodity
  • Limited supply & growing demand
  • There is huge growth potential.
    • US no.1 wine consumption market in the world
    • China 45% growth over the next 10 years
    • Global demand
    • Auction houses: Christie’s & Sotheby
    • “Nuevo Riche” in emerging marketings like China, Russia, Eastern Europe

Wine is an area that I haven’t invested in before as it is something not close to my heart. Even though I was told that I don’t have to be a wine drinker to be an investor, somehow I feel that I would be at a disadvantage when it comes to the product knowledge.

So how exactly do you invest in wine? These are the steps shared with us:

  1. Selection
  2. Storage
  3. Trading

1) Wine selection

  • Ratings (Critics) – RPJ’s Wine Advocate
  • Regions – South Australia & Margaret River
  • Vintage, Vintage and Vintage
  • Research
  • Strong ties with vineyards
  • Build collections with intrinsic value

2) Wine storage

  • Home storage – bad idea
  • Perishable product
  • AWI has a tie-up with Cougar Express Logistics whereby investors can store their wines and have their own individual account

3) Trading

  • Exit strategies – Friends, collectors, merchants
  • Auctions offer best option

I can’t really elaborate on the points given in the presentation by Australian Wine Index as I’m pretty much a novice when it comes to wine investment.

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494 comments
Judi says 5 years ago

Hi, the whole thing is going sound here and ofcourse every one is sharing facts,
that’s in fact good, keep up writing.

Reply
BigFish says 5 years ago

Alvin Lim is no longer in AWI according to new CEO of AWI and they will be charging us storage fee even it has been waived by previous management. Why are they charging us when the previous management waive it off because they can’t sell our wine.

I would advice all not to pay as their accounting is not accurate. A few of us have seek legal advice and we can go to CAD. If we have 30 people or more, they will take up the case.

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frustrated AWI customer says 6 years ago

Alvin, we were told that these wine were of investment value and would appreciate over time. If according to market value we lose or gain that is our own decision, but you made that decision for us by marking it up so sky high , much higher than retail .

Firstly i wanted to say is.. If you think that you can be excluded from the law by saying we did not research properly. Consider duty of care, investors rely on you and listen to your advices as they are not well informed and research materials on these unheard wines are few. We trusted you. You do not tell me that you sell a share of Facebook worth 38 dollars which you knew exactly the value, to an investor at 60 dollars is not a scam , you hard sell them and not they buy from you willingly. Or tell me that you go DBS and buy a structured product and listen to this advisor and when it fails they are not liable. People who claim themselves as experts and advisors have that duty of care no matter what product it is, ESPECIALLY in a market that information is not readily available. by the way, i was told that these webpage that lists the wine either have no stock or is underballing. A total bullshit. This kind of statement will be used against AWI, i assure you. If you think you can sell something worthless at a high price and claim ignorance then think again. Can the conman who sell the fake medicine to aunties and grannies say that they “walk in and buy with their eyes open” and “they do not research it is their fault?” i do not think so. How dare you take that defense. If i do not see the results you have promised , I will make sure you will be sued by the best lawyer i can employ and i will make it work by making it into a national sensation. I have invested a lot of time into courses of action and studying the law and I assure you that when it happens. You will hit the headlines. Do you think the authorities will stand by and do nothing? Do you seriously think that at that time, the government can stand by doing nothing? we are sick of your prolonged and repetitive empty promises. If you are sincere, put down in writing and send an email to all investors what you are doing to help them sell their wines at a profit as what you had stated in your valuation report which i do not know where you pluck the numbers. And according to evaluation report the value of the wine did rise. Let me see how you sell at those price. Or you have another charge – misrepresentation slapped on you. Multiply that into the number of investors . If you are really innocent then i guess you shouldnt worry , or even debate this. I am expecting action from you with dates and email to all. If not , then expect action from me. You have a week. counting from 1st August 2012 .Croonies monitoring this webpage should have already informed you

No more empty talk. People who got con are not stupid. They are just more kind and trusted the wrong guy. I am not threatening to sue. This is a promise and it is fully legal.

People who are frustrated and wanted to join me for discussion or suing please email. [email protected]. I need your portfolio ID and also your current holdings and dates you invested as verifications. AWI has been creating fake IDs all around in forums trying to defend their stand.

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Paul Roberts says 6 years ago

Dear Alvin

I represent the wife of the late Mr Paul H Nicholas (who died in October 2011). A significant part of Mr Nicholas’s estate is in AWI’s wine stocks.

Mrs Nicholas now has no income and needs the funds from the wine. She has instructed AWI to liquidate her stock numerous times since late 2011.

AWI have not responded to any of Mrs Nicholas’s (or her daughter’s) attempts to contact AWI by phone and e-mails. They are both distraught.

Since early June, I have sent several e-mails and faxes (addressed to AWI’s CEO, Mr Andrew Bassett) to all of AWIs offices. Hence, you should have at least received my letter dated 3 July 2012).

A response to this message would be much appreciated.

Regards

Paul Roberts
National Manager, Contract & Dispute Services, Aquenta Consulting, Australia

Reply
alvin lim says 6 years ago

hi Ron i’m still waiting for your call.

i’m in this forum to clarify things and try to work things out with my investors i’m not here to pretend as a client , i’m helping my clients .if happen so you are my investor call me let’s see how we can work from there

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alvin lim says 6 years ago

my mobil is 96676137 but i need you to identify yourself Ron if you are a client call me

cheers

Reply
alvin lim says 6 years ago

rather than we spend time on Blogs i think it would be better if we have a discussion Ron

Reply
alvin lim says 6 years ago

identify yourself or call me at my office line

cheers .

we are not PLA or UAG all our clients have their wines

Reply
Ron says 6 years ago

Great now we have Alvin from AWI telling us and I quote “… online trading is underway, and we are now working with major auction houses…”

May I ask how many times have we investors hear such things, for myself I have heard
1) They are having auctions in HK
2) They are signing up with some Shanghai auction house
And what is the end result… a big fat ZERO! Nothing seems to come out of them. And when we investors want to sell our porfolio AWI wants us to buy more instead.

Seriously Alvin, if you want to set things right, please be more specific about the dates on when will such “initiatives” be launched. Please do not use words like underway… cause is it can mean it is already launch or it could simply mean it is still under construction. To me at least it is just something fluffy in the air with no concrete grounding.

Also may I point out in the BT article dated 12th March 2012, you mentioned the online platform is expected to launch in May. And now it is already end June. If you have forgotten what you say please refer to the extract of this article posted on this website.

So please be more specific with your information.

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alvin lim says 6 years ago

dear investor the online trading is underway, and we are now working with major auction houses in Hong Kong everything will come in place and we will set things right.

cheers my email is [email protected] or you can call me on my office line

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Ron says 7 years ago

Hi,

I was reading through this and myself is also a “victim” of this AWI “scam”…
Being trying to sell my wines since 2007 however five years had past and not a single one was sold. Everytime I ask them to sell they say buy more and when I decide not to buy more, I do not get to hear from them.

Recent years they have been telling me abt their Shanghai auction but seriously when I say put my portfolio on the list they say better to buy some more. When I refuse, the same I did not get to hear from them.

I am now taking matters in my own hand actively looking for avenues to sell my wine even if means I have to take a hit on my invested amount. I am taking it as an expensive lesson.

For those of you thinking about wine investment, DO NOT DO IT unless you have an exit plan signed in black and wine.

For those thinking of approaching the CAD and police, I can say there is pretty nothing much they can do cause it is not really a ponzi per say like that of what Madoff did unless there is proof of falsification of documents. Even so if we manage to bring AWI to court based on their yearly filing and paid up capital for 2012 we will still not get back anything. Maybe at best we get the satisfaction of seeing the person in charge of AWI being sentenced to a jail term.

Therefore what I can only share is that
1) look for avenues to sell of the wines… if you successfully sold off wines please kindly share with me…. appreciated.
2) prevent people from falling into their “scam” by publishing this on public media.

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norman says 7 years ago

Who have you sold to? I am looking for all possible avenues to

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Tummy Tan says 7 years ago

If investors have the holding power, then hold and wait, or do whatever you want with your wines.

If you are a poor investor like me, and can’t afford to lose everything, cut loss and move on. This game is for rich people with deep pockets.

I learnt my lesson, wine is for drinking.

And those on AWI’s list, will most likely have received other kinds of investment opportunities e.g Whiskey investment and most recently investing in Trees. Ha! The addressess of all this companies are all on Nanking Row.

I now get a kick out of talking to these salesmen for hours. Well call me a loser. I dont care. I sold my wine. Have you?

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    Ron says 7 years ago

    Hi, can you share with us the contact with whom you should the wines through.
    Thank you.

    Reply
Ann says 7 years ago

it is really a good article which i should read before i purchase.

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    Bassett's bulging bank balance says 7 years ago

    Anne, all you had to do was double check the price of the wine you were purchasing on the internet beforehand. Any smart investor would have done this.

    It amazes me how careless and blind some people are when it comes to investing. I honestly believe the world would not have had the awful recent debt crisis is people who do not know how to use money were restricted from handling it.

    Reply
MummyJY says 7 years ago

Not sure if this is the article Diane is referring to. It appeared on Business Times on 10 Mar.

*******************************************************************************

Business Times – 10 Mar 2012

Investing in wines: caveat emptor

It’s best to deal with regulated entities and to be clear about exit procedures

By GENEVIEVE CUA
PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR

INVESTING in wine would seem to be an attractive proposition: an alternative investment that supposedly zigs when the market zags. What’s more, price appreciation of the finest French wines has been stratospheric, thanks to voracious buying by the Chinese.

But many investors here who have invested anywhere between tens of thousands of dollars to well over $100,000 in wine have found themselves in a pickle. Notably, there have been three failures of so-called wine investment firms – Premium Liquid Assets, Universal Assets Group and Assetton Wine Investments – with police investigations reportedly underway on a couple of them.

Over the last 12 months, grumblings have also intensified in the blogosphere over Australian Wine Index (AWI), a firm set up in 2003 to advise and help clients invest in Australian wines, dubbed ‘New World’ wines. AWI procures wine on clients’ behalf. The wines are stored locally in clients’ names and the firm is supposed to help clients ‘exit’ or sell the portfolios, hopefully at an attractive rate of return.

But clients complain of hard-sell tactics by AWI brokers and of the inability to sell their wines. Clients are apparently told by some brokers that a ‘proper’ wine portfolio must have at least three lines. Clients are then reportedly pressured to buy more at the risk of not being able to exit at all.

Along with alternative investments such as offshore land banking – where clients have come to grief – wine investment is a murky, unregulated area.

This means that while you take advice from a broker who propositions you with so-called investment-grade wine that supposedly has appreciation potential, such brokers are not licensed and do not have to comply with any disclosure requirements. This is unlike regulated financial investments such as unit trusts, where advisers are subject to strict licensing and education requirements, and all marketing materials must comply with strict rules, ranging from restrictions on performance forecasts to the size of any fine-print details.

Says Wine Exchange Asia’s Lou Ghirardello: ‘We’ve seen some spectacular failures such as Premium Liquid Assets . . . There is almost a blind trust that the government or regulator will protect local investors here . . . Unfortunately, it’s predatory behaviour on the part of brokers. They have the knowledge, they know the market – and they prey on the gullible.’ Wine Exchange Asia conducts Internet auctions and sales of fine wine, and also offers a managed cellar service.

Mr Ghirardello adds: ‘What’s disturbing is that when you make a phone call with a view that you expect to sell the wine on the basis of some huge investment value, there is – if not a legal responsibility – then a moral responsibility for the seller to inform the buyer what the true market is for the wine. That’s where I believe there is a fundamental breakdown. People are buying wine based on pricing which is either not easy to discover or totally subjective insofar as they may be paying retail price for the wine.’

AWI managing director Alvin Lim concedes that the exit strategy hadn’t been thought through in the past. ‘We are trying to help clients exit their wines.’ Last year, the firm partnered an auction house in China and two auctions were held. He says the firm has helped clients to sell $6-8 million worth of wines at auctions.

But the China auctions are halted for now. Response to the second auction was poor, and Chinese buyers who have the option of buying in Hong Kong baulked at duties of 48 per cent should they want to consume the wine. Most China buyers, he says, buy for consumption.

While he is negotiating with AWI’s China auction partner for better terms and with other Hong Kong auction houses such as Christie’s, he is also planning to set up a ‘New World’ wine exchange platform to provide another avenue for clients to sell their holdings. The platform, which is expected to launch in May, is likely to be open to clients who have invested for at least 3-5 years. It will be open to buyers globally.

Based on ACRA filings, AWI reported revenues of $10.7 million in 2010 and a pretax loss of $851,000. It has total assets of $4.3 million and total liabilities of $5.08 million. Its paid-up capital is $130. This writer asked Mr Lim to explain the assets and liabilities as the company appeared to be technically insolvent.

He said: ‘Australian Wine Index is a fully audited business which operates legally and is above board. As a privately owned company, we do not comment on internal matters like our paid-up capital or our balance sheet.’ However, the financial strength of the company is arguably an important issue for investors to ascertain.

Mr Lim, who first joined AWI as a broker in 2005, became a director in 2010. ‘I made it my goal to help clients trade their wine successfully with a reasonable profit.’

On hard-sell tactics, he says turnover among brokers has been high. ‘Trading wine is done by our team of traders, not the brokers, and there is no restriction which says a client must have more than one wine or a certain specific minimum quantity invested with us. Neither is it in our stated terms and conditions. However, certain collectors do prefer to buy collections of wines rather than individual vintages – hence, we try to sell clients wine for them both individually and as collectors.

‘Having said this, based on the investor feedback you’ve brought to us, we will review the practices and sales techniques of all brokers and traders working at AWI to ensure they comply with company policy on this.’

Exiting or selling wine is a costly exercise as well. Investors have to pay AWI a brokerage of about 5 per cent and the auction house may take a commission of about 12 per cent. There are also moving and storage costs.

The rub, however, is the purchase price: are investors buying at retail or wholesale prices? In answer to this, Mr Lim points to the sale of Hewitson 2009 Private Cellar Barossa Valley Shiraz en primeur at S$158 per magnum (1.5 litre) bottle, including refrigerated shipping, three years’ storage and insurance. The same Private Cellar 2009 is quoted by Hewitson Cellar Door at A$70 (S$93) per 750ml bottle, he says.

This appears to be an Australian retail price. If exported to Singapore, it must be discounted by a 10 per cent Australian GST and 29 per cent wine equalisation tax.

But based on a search on http://www.wine-searcher.com, the price of the 2009 vintage is reflected as at about S$39 a bottle by a merchant in Finland. The price includes sales tax.

Clients who want to find alternative ways to sell through merchants here are also caught between a rock and a hard place. This is because while some wines are reportedly of good quality, the rush to exit causes a surge in supply which then predictably dampens prices.

Meanwhile, on the question of possible regulation of alternative investments such as wine, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) says it ‘strongly encourages’ consumers to deal only with regulated entities. ‘If consumers choose to deal with persons who are not regulated by MAS, they forgo the protection afforded under laws administered by MAS. We have also provided resources to enable consumers to conduct some checks on parties they intend to deal with.’

These resources include a register of representatives and a consumer alert on the dangers of dealing with unregulated persons which can be accessed at http://www.moneysense.gov.sg.

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Diane Saw says 7 years ago

Anyone read the special feature on wine investment in the paper (I think it is Sunday Times) two weeks ago. Many questions not clearly answered by AWI with this new Singaporean MD – formerly broker of AWI. Can you believe that the paid up capital is only 130sgd!

Interesting points to discuss:
1. It mentioned that Wine investment is not under the jurisdiciton of MAS. Is it true that any investment company not registered with MAS is not under its jurisdiction?
2. Why Registry of Companies and Businesses allow a wine investment company to be incorporated with such a small paid-up capital? or so claim investment company to register a company without clearance of MAS?
3. Maybe AWI is just a wine brokering firm or retail company under registration but try to represent itself as investment company – could that be possible.
4. Any possibility of class action suit against AWI if they are selling non-investment wine as claimed by Henry?

Any friends of MAS, Reg of Companies, Commercial Affair Department or commercial lawyers care to check and comment.

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    Martin Lee says 7 years ago

    Hi Diane,

    a lot of alternative investments like wine, land, etc do not fall under any particular regulation of MAS. Thus, they are all unregulated investments. If anything goes wrong, the end investor will be lead on a wild goose chase from MAS, CASE, CAD to your lawyer among others.

    For registry of business, you can start up a company with any amount of paid up capital.

    Reply
Henry says 7 years ago

I see that, there’s a heated arguments here since the 15th. Well this is a buyer and seller market. “AWI victims” if you have a better alternative than Robert Rees, why don’t you share it here?

People get into AWI investment mostly are selfish because in the first place. They’ll afraid that by letting too many people into this, will eat up there profit so most of them never ask or don’t bother to ask, they believe everything they see from the chart.

To share a story, I got a call from a sales from AWI some years back. Asking me to buy some of the wines from AWI. I told the sales, aussie wines price don’t fly. The sales reply to me, ” Oh so you know abt wines, yup the price don’t really go up. Thks.” He put down the phone and I never heard from him again.

Anyway to those bought AWI wines, don’t get into another scheme by buying more from any brokers just that he/she tell you they can get rid of your AWI stocks.

I said this before and will said this again. Aussie wines are good but they are simply not investment grade wines. No matter what price they promised you, it’s all fake. Free storage? It’s all in the cost already.

I got friend who’s also helping people getting rid of AWI stock told me that many of these people does not wanna face up to the reality that their wines are really not as worthy as they were promised by AWI.

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    Diane Saw says 7 years ago

    Henry,

    Your statement “Aussie wines are good but they are simply not investment grade wines” has been repeated. Please confirm that you standby your statement?

    Upon your confirmation, I am going to forward your message in this forum to the Australian High Comm, Trade Secretary and also all the Wine Export Associations in Australia.

    If you are right, the outcome could be good evident for all AWI investor for any “misrepresentation” by AWI.

    By the way, in what professional capacity or qualification are you making all these statement here? I assume you are not an AWI investor as understood from your message above, so no vested interest. Would be interesting for the reader here to understand you.

    Reply
      Henry says 7 years ago

      Diane, you can argue about it, but if you go around looking for some price on aussie wine price. Eg, I bought Penfold Magill 91 from UK cost only 40gbp recently. But If I were to get George Roumier Chambolle Musigny 96 now, it’s easily cost 90 gbp where upon released, it’s only maybe 15-20 gbp in 1998?

      You can forward all my quote to the High Comm but I’m quite sure they’ll defend it all the way or even Wine Export Associations in Australia. I may not have a capacity or qualification. But definitely playing in the fine wine market for at least 10 years. Apparently you know nothing about about fine wines market. Btw if you want qualifications, you don’t really need qualifications in this market, you need experience, if you check carefully which who can command the price of wines. Currently the market react mainly to Robert Parker for bordeaux and Allen Meadow for burgundy. These two does not even have the title master of wine or MW and they were trained in law. But when the scores are good on certain wines it jump few folds easily.

      Another thing, I think that why aussie wines are not investment grades, it’s because the production level is too high. If you compare the annual production of Penfolds and DRC. You’ll see why……

      Reply
    alvin lim says 6 years ago

    investment grade wine are for consumtion too if ppl can’t afford why invest when people can’t afford to drink it u must be kidding what about ist growth it drop 30%

    Reply
Robert Rees says 7 years ago

I am not interested in justifying what I do any longer in this forum. You will not be receiving any further responses from me here. Those who wish to contact me are free to do so. I wish you well.

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    Diane Saw says 7 years ago

    Robert,

    Before you started your underpricing of the AWI wines in the local market, I was able to sell the Molly Dooker Carnival of Love to a local wine shop for more than $200 per magnum bottle but recently you destroyed the whole market and I would be glad if I get anything above $150 now. Just an example of how you have destroyed the wine market prices.

    You wrote in your email that “This means that if I am not responding to your demand to evaluate every wine, I have either tried and failed to sell a particular wine, I just have too much of it available right now ……………” I have already said that you are “dumping” the wine in such a small Singapore market, which of course will reach saturation in no time. This “dumping” business is OF COURSE NOT SUSTAINABLE.

    I have told you that if you are really helping the desparate AWI investors, you should look into exporting into a bigger market. This of course is not easy but I understand that there is someone who is trying to do it now. I hope he will be successful and bring hope to the others – he makes money and AWI investor may make or loose but as bad as now.

    Please try dumping your commercial wines in the market and have a taste of your own medicine. Tell me, if you loose money in your business using the same strategy, is it due to the excessive price of the wholesaler or is it your own misdeed that depress the market price?

    I am glad that finally you have make a committment not to solicit here and leave alone the AWI victims here. This is very much appreciated and please don’t come back to the forum as “Henry” or “Richard”………………

    Diane

    Message to “totally desparate” AWI investor:

    The current situation that we have arrived at is a total destruction of the wine prices for the wine that we are holding. Just a simple logic, how much wine can be absorbed by the local market? So its simple economics, if demand disappear, what price can you sell and you can see here that people are not receiving reply to their request to sell and people using scarecrow tatics that wine has turned bad. Withdraw your wine and drink for yourself to know the truth.

    The only way out is liquidation has to be through a bigger market elsewhere. I understand someone is working on it and I wish him success and brings hope for AWI investors.

    Reply
Basset's belly says 7 years ago

Someone wo buys australian wine at a vastly inflated price because he did no research and then can’t sell it leaving himself with a catastrophic loss is in no position to call anyone stupid.

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AWI Victims says 7 years ago

People here again… DON’T BE DUPED BY THIS Robert Rees or the idiot Basset’s belly.

They are the same people here creating trouble. The good thing is we never ask him to sell our wines.. We got a Far better offer than his.. and exit real FAST…

Please do not be duped again..

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    Basset's belly says 7 years ago

    Someone wo buys australian wine at a vastly inflated price because he did no research and then can’t sell it leaving himself with a catastrophic loss is in no position to call anyone an idiot.

    Reply
    Basset's belly says 7 years ago

    So let me get this straight. One minute you are crying because Rober itsn’t ‘helping’ you when its not his just to help naive people who don’t research their investments, and now you are telling us you got a ‘far better offer’ and have sold your wine.

    Sweet baby Jesus! You’re an even worse liar than you are investor and that’s saying something!

    Reply
    Ann says 7 years ago

    @AWI victim: how did you manage to sell your wine? anyone interested?

    Reply
AWI Victims says 7 years ago

Basset’s belly PLEASE SHUT YOUR MOUTH IF YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO SAY. AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. BUSY BODY CRUDE ASS!!!! WE ARE NOT STUPID!!!

AH.. YOU MUST BE ONE OF ROBERTS PEOPLE!!!!!! SO STOP APPEARING HERE IF YOU HAVE NO SOLUTION FOR PEOPLE.. IDIOT!!!!

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AWI Victims says 7 years ago

Roberts Rees, what we meant is that you simply do not display the courtesy to reply people’s email. living people in the air. if you cannot sell our wines, please do say so. we are not angry but you attitude display over here is simply too reactive.

If you are confident of your service to people, you would not have been so reactive.

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    Basset's belly says 7 years ago

    Oh for the love of god what is it with you people? Can’t you just admit you were stupid when you bought this wine. Its not Robert’s responsibility to get you and Diana out of the mess you created for yourself. he doesnt have to reply to your emails which no doubt complain about the prices he can see it for.

    Robert is offering a service which benefits himself as he is in business for HIMSELF. He is confident that he can sell the wines that people want at the price people will pay. If you bought the wrong wine at a ridiculous price because you did absolutely no research yourself then YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME.

    If you have wine that Robert can sell and are willing to let it go at a price he can sell it for then let him know. If not, stop being a poor investor wasting a successful businessman’s time.

    Reply
      AWI Victims says 7 years ago

      @ Basset’s belly AH….. benefits himself AS HE IS IN BUSINESS HIMSELF. MORON OR IDIOT LIKE YOU CAN ONLY WIRTE THINGS TO CHEAT PEOPLE EVEN FURTHER…

      IF U HAVE CLEAR CONSCIENCE, PLEASE DO NOT APPEAR HERE.. DUMB ASS~~~

      Reply
        AWI Victims says 7 years ago

        @ Basset’s belly for the love of GOD somemore…. using the name of GOd in vain.. you will have to be accountable of what you say…..

        SUCH LOWY IDIOTIC SCUM !!!! PLS F OFF IF YOU HAVE NO SPECIFIC SOLUTION ..

        Reply
          Basset's belly says 7 years ago

          Ok, lets get a few things straight.

          Firstly, as previously said you only have yourself to blame for accepting AWI’s offer of wine at the price they stated. YOU did not do any research. YOU agreed to enter into the agreement, YOU paid for the wine so YOU are to blame for getting yourself into this mess. NO one put a gun to your head and made you buy it at the absolutely ridiculous price you did.
          Robert is not selling wine to get you out of this mess YOU have got yourself into. He is in business to make money for himself. Everyone who runs a business is in it to make money for themselves. If you and him can come to an arrangement that is MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL (meaning it benefits both of you) then by all means do so. If he doesnt want to buy your wine its because the wine YOU bought has none or very little value on the open market because YOU failed to do your own research.

          Next, I hate to be the one to break this to you but ‘God’ doesn’t exist. Never has done, never will do. So if I want to use the lord’s name in vain I can do with absolute assurance that nothing whatsoever will happen to me.
          Did you pray that god would come to your rescue and save your hilarious embarrassing wine portfolio? I’m betting your prayers wer not answered. He never answers prayers because he doesn’t exist. if he did he would be responsible for children dying of cancer, people burning to death, war, rape, torture etc. Why on earth would you want to believe in something that causes all of that, let alone ‘worship’ it?

          Now, my advise to you would be to accept that YOU made a mistake buying wine without doing any research then accept any price you can for it and accept it gracefully.

          Then with what little money you get back invest in some anger management lessons. Your comments this afternoon are nothing short of an embarrassment, as is your grasp of the English language.

          Reply
            angry bird says 6 years ago

            Being cheated because research is done or not does not make the asshole a less asshole does he? Everyone is out to do business. the issue here is ethical or not. it seems to me you are kind of person that do business that earns regardless of whether it is ethical or not. There is a right way of doing business. Not answering phone, keep asking people to buy, putting near to zero efforts to sell and promise the sky so that people invest in this safe money heaven starved place, goodness sakes. This is like daylight robbery and you make it sound that people who got robbed were at fault. I wish you got cheated one day and you have only yourself to blame because the one who got cheated were just not careful. Once again. people who invest may or may not have researched, they may be at fault.but it doesnt make awi less an arse hole.

            Reply
      AWI Victims says 7 years ago

      @ Basset’s belly AND HEY PLS MIND YR OWN BUSINESS… we NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PRICES… SO PLEASE STOP ACTING HERE IF YOU ARE ROBERT REES YOUR SELF…

      Reply
Robert Rees says 7 years ago

Dear “AWI Victims”

I find your comments flabbergasting. You somehow seem to have mistaken my offering to help people sell their wines as some sort of philanthropic gesture where I am going to sell everything you own at the price you want.. I am receiving around six new sellers per week asking for assistance. The time taken to evaluate each application is very long, and it may come as a surprise to you but the sale of secondary market wines is not the core platform of our business. We sell commercial wines at bargain prices every single day. I do not know who you are as you do not actually mention that, but I can only assume that you have been one of these sellers. Some people own thousands and thousands of wines needing evaluation and we apply the same global price evaluation approach to each and every one of them.

In order to speed up the process for the more impatient of people, I give them the most recent trading prices for the wines which i think have the best chance of selling rapidly, and then of they are interested in taking the process further i evaluate their wines using the method above. It seems to me that you are one of those.

It is now more than obvious that not all of these investment wines have any hope of garnering any kind of return and in fact I would say that I have not seen a new or different wine from these sellers for six months. Many are now approaching a stage of maturation where they are going to fall away and be undrinkable. I have seen a lot of this already. This means that if I am not responding to your demand to evaluate every wine, I have either tried and failed to sell a particular wine, I just have too much of it available right now, or the wine is past its drinking age and therefore of zero value to my clients.

If you do not like the level of service I am giving – you are doing nothing more than harming others chances of getting out of this mess by denegrating what help I am able to give through Wine Exchange Asia. You are taking your anger and frustration out on the wrong person – you would be well served thinking about where you bought the wines and how those particular people are moving to assist you instead. Your allegations of insincerity could not be more misguided.

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    AWI Victims says 7 years ago

    And we definitely agreed with what DIana Saw says…

    We have not even got the service from you. Just asking around for quote. And by the rate of you promoting, it will goes no where…

    Reply
AWI Victims says 7 years ago

Dear all, Robert Rees is not sincere in helping people. He is only interested in particularly. If you ask about other range of wines, he will never reply your emails.

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    MummyJY says 7 years ago

    To be fair, Robert is running a business and not a charity. If he takes on wines that he can’t sell at the moment, he will be incurring storage cost for nothing. And if Robert doesn’t take the wine at the moment, it can only mean that there’s no market for it so we had been double scammed by AWI, who didn’t sell our wine as promised, and didn’t sell us wine that is in demand. So, our anger should be directed rightfully at AWI, and ourselves for not doing enough research to fall for such scams.

    In fact, AWI had the cheek to call me to sell me more wines, when I put in a request to withdraw my current stock a few days back. Of course I gave that trader, Tom, some advice, but nicely though as I don’t want to fall to the same low level as them.

    And some more bad news, to withdraw the wines from their warehouse, I have to pay duty and GST and they claimed it worked out to be about $14/bottle. I told them to give me a breakdown how they arrived at that figure as it seems double compared to the formula I retrieved from the Customs website. I’m still waiting for a reply from them to see what exorbitant figure they are going to quote. So see, it’s triple scammed on silly me.

    I am definitely going to lodge a police report, though my police friend said that I have no case, since it is a business transaction I had entered into willingly, to buy wine from someone selling it, and who didn’t state in black and white that they will in return sell it for me, only through lots of verbal promises. Seems like AWI covered their bases well, so perhaps all our brains here could work to see if there are loopholes where we can get back at them. I think that is more productive and could help to prevent other innocent people from getting scammed.

    And I am going to make noise to MAS (not sure how yet) too about why they are allowing more and more of such scam companies with no sustainable business model to go around touting that they are investment companies able to make good returns. Gold now seems to be the new vehicle so hopefully none of us here has gone on to invest in companies claiming that they can give interest on gold.

    Surely as a regulator MAS could do something about this, just like how other government agencies are regulating all property agent firms and the private schools and the maid agencies. Simply lazy and lack of rigour to say that we should check their website for their Investor Alert list, which only includes companies which had already scammed. I always thought that prevention is better than cure?

    I am treating this as really an expensive lesson learnt and there’s no one to be blamed, except myself and AWI.

    Reply
    Henry says 7 years ago

    You guys/gals must know a lot of AWI labels cannot sell at all? Of course Robert is not going to offer you anything, if he offered you too low, you felt insulted, too high no one would buy from him.

    Just curious what does everyone have and what’s the price you guys wanna sell? You can email me? If not too much quantity I can ask around.

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eddie says 7 years ago

Any AWI investor contacted by Jeremy Brown from Provenance Global? He claim to be a fine wine broker and is able to help AWI customer to sell off their wine.
Anybody has engaged his service?

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    Distressed says 7 years ago

    I received his mail recently. May want to see if there is a collective few who can engage them as a group than individually…it is unfortunate that I lost my confidence in the ability to sell my wine from AWI long ago….

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      Henry says 7 years ago

      Depending on what you have. Penfold Grange, Hill of Grace, Chris Ringland should not be a problem selling with a good price, but the rest. Good luck to you.

      Actually it’s also depending on what’s the price you looking at? If you want your cost, you can forget abt it. No one would pay such price. Even at cost you should get less after deduction of GST+Tax+commission etc.

      Reply
      norman says 7 years ago

      Any outcome from Jeremy Brown, Provenance Global?

      Reply
Bassett's belly says 7 years ago

Dear oh dear Diane. Its time you faced the hard truth. You paid well over the actual value of your wine and are refusing to admit to yourself you made a poor financial decision. You honestly believe that your wine will reach a market value similar to the price you paid?
The reason Robert sells the wine at the price he does is because thats the market rate for this wine, not the overinflated price you paid for it.
There are no smart wine investors, its a sham. But the less stupid ones are the ones who are offloading their stock while they can or at least drinking it.
Some of the wines that AWI sold are coming into their prime now, with your strategy they will at some point be past their best and even harder to shift.
Sell now while you can for whatever you can. You will never ever make a profit off wine investment in Singapore.
Your strategy of expecting people not to sell or demanding that potential investors do not buy just so you can try and artificially inflate the value of your own overpriced portfolio is almost as ridiculous as the amount you paid for the wine in the first place.
Wake up and smell the coffee Diane.

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    Henry says 7 years ago

    eh…..wine investment does made profit, but not from aussie wine.

    Reply
Robert Rees says 7 years ago

In arriving at an evaluation of a market price that enables the client to exit his/ her holding, we evaluate the wine’s prices on a global basis and arrive at a figure that represents the ability to sell – rather than sit at a retail price indefinitely. We are not a retailer. We are a platform that liquidates wines.

The client is totally free to accept or reject such an evaluation.

As to export to America and China, I am not sure how you have been advised, but the paperwork required to achieve this is very complex,time consuming and expensive. I understand that some people are doing this already through their original brokerage house and I encourage you to do the same.

Our charges for the sale of wines are 15%, which again surprises me to read your allegation that Wine Exchange Asia is making “big bucks”. I would imagine that as an experienced investor – you expect to pay some kind of cost in order to sell an asset. Once again, you are entitled to utilize our services or not.

I wish you well with your endeavors.
Robert

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    Diane Saw says 7 years ago

    The point is the way you are pricing the wine, you are depressing the market prices here and blocking the exit of investors through the normal channels. Its like an “illegal hawker” or “pirate taxi operator” in pricing their services. I am sure you have made many wine retailers and wholesalers unhappy by destroying the expected market prices of the wines.

    I hope you will have a taste of your own medicine soon. Would be happy to see you packup and retire.

    Here I plead with all wine investors not to sell via your channel in order to protect the price and interest of fellow investors. In addition, we should warn new potential wine investor not to fall into the same situation as us. With that, hopefully the supply in Singapore can be contained and therefore the price as well.

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      Henry says 7 years ago

      You can plead…but who’s going pay for their storage incurred? The thing is the storage here are so high that it’s appreciating much more than all those wines the people here are selling. In fact, I know some of the wines at cellardoor are selling about the same price as Robert is selling. In case you never read what I posted before, those wines people are selling are just not simply speculating grade. If those were Lafite, Latour, DRC etc….those price Robert is offering, I would tell those people who selling to him, not to sell him. In fact I would offer double what he’s offering.

      Reply
Robert Rees says 7 years ago

Hi Diane

Please contact me at [email protected] and I will be happy to provide you with an evaluation for the domestic sale of your wines.

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Diane says 7 years ago

Can you publish your offer price here.

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    Henry says 7 years ago

    Diane,

    The price of Robert’s are the mkt price of the wines. Of cos after deduction of the his commission, you’ll find that you are getting less back. In fact all merchants charges a commission or transaction fee, even auction house do. Just in case you don’t know, auction house like sotheby’s they charges something like 22% + auctioneer fees. Fyi, those wines Robert mention, cannot even get into Sotheby’s auction. Mainly, in Sotheby’s auction only top french do sell in such auction. Well if you think that holding back your stock from AWI, the price will go up, then good luck to you. Fyi, buyers of these wines, want them to be provenance proven. If the storage condition are not optimum, you can kiss all your money good bye.

    Anyway, why not drink them all, yourself? Most of the AWI stocks are good wines except they are not the investment quality.

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Robert Rees says 7 years ago

We are currently buying the following labels:

Katnook Odyssey (Particularly looking for 2001)
Elderton Command (Particularly looking for vintages older than 2000 and 2005/6)
Charles Cimicky Reserve Shiraz 2004/5

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alex says 7 years ago

Any AWI investor manage to liquidate their wine through other sources? What is the procedure and any additional cost incurred?

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    Robert Rees says 7 years ago

    We have been assisting many people to sell their wines. If you would like to send me your list of wines I will do an evaluation for you. Our next sale of investment wine stock is in February.

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      Andrew Tay says 7 years ago

      Robert, can u let me hv yur email address?

      Reply
        Robert Rees says 7 years ago

        You can reach me on [email protected]

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          Diane says 7 years ago

          Be prepared to make a big loss via Robert. He is making big bucks through huge volume. In fact its “dumping” at your expense.

          Reply
Robert Rees says 7 years ago

I am distressed to hear that anybody would think that we are doing a “disfavor” to anybody wishing to sell their wines. I cannot comment on how much you may have paid for your wines, but what I can assure you and anybody who wishes to sell their wines through our sales portal that we utilize many different global and domestic pricing models in order to arrive at an evaluation of an accurate and efficient price and in agreement with the seller, we proceed to exit them from their holdings quickly and effectively, with rapid and accurate payment.

We have serviced many grateful people and as a consequence we do not advertise the service and rely on referrals only. With this commitment to service and action, we have sold thousands of dollars worth of wines which otherwise would still be gathering dust in expensive storage.

I wish you good luck with your endeavors and reaffirm our commitment to helping those who otherwise would be stuck with an asset which cannot be liquidated.

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    Diane says 7 years ago

    I believe those people who sold to you are in a desperate situation. They are totally frustrated with Wine Investment that they just want to get out of it and forget it.

    It is true that you are helping them but on the contrary, you are spoiling the market with your “dumping” at dirt cheap prices.

    As such, by helping a few desperate investors, you are depressing the prices in the market and making the situation worst of for existing wine investors to exit.

    If you want to help, please help to export to bigger market in US or China etc rather than dumping the wines in the little Singapore market.

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Robert Rees says 7 years ago

I am looking for up to 15 dozen Fox Creek Res Shiraz 2005.

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    K Tan says 7 years ago

    Robert,

    I understand from a few friends that you are helping to sell wines of AWI investors. Unfortunately you are doing it at dirt cheap prices.

    As a consequence you are doing a disfavor to all the AWI wine investors out here! I hope you can be more considerate in your dealing as you are also killing your own business in the long term!

    Good luck

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jay says 7 years ago

Hello All, I am looking for some wines (prefer french fine wines) for export.
If you have wines to sell, kindly email me at [email protected]

Thanks all

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Dunavox says 7 years ago

Now, they want to charge storage fees. I had invested since 2004 and since they could not divest my investment, they had waived the storage fees. They are not willing to do it but they still cannot divest my investment. Sigh…
Crap investment.

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    Robert Rees says 7 years ago

    I am buying Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz in case you are holding this.

    Robert

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Ann says 7 years ago

Any updated result from China Auction?

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Give Up says 7 years ago

I tried over a two year period asking the crooks at AWI to liquidate my wine since 2007, and they have never been able to do it. And today they just sent us email asking for more money to pay for continued storage of the wines they have been unable to liquidate.

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Mike says 7 years ago

I have been asking for my wine to be divested. But AWI kept avoiding the matter.

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Lim eric says 7 years ago

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1326741302120&set=a.1313695055972.43748.1638550283&type=1&theater

just click or copy/paste then do the detective work
photo > person > now working for > connection???
take a look through all those pics

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Rob says 7 years ago

I see that the 1st auction was on Sunday (28 Aug). Downloaded the catalog and the reserve prices are twice what you find on any wine search website. It would be nice to see the results.

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    swat says 7 years ago

    Most of the wines are not sold in the auction. Wonder what’s the next step AWI will take to get them sold off.

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      Ann says 7 years ago

      what is the result for China auction? Anybody knows?

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        Doulos says 7 years ago

        Didn’t u rec their email? The auction result is here http://www.australianwineindex.com/auction.html.

        Out of the 93 lots, only 16 lots are sold. So what do u think?

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        kk says 7 years ago

        At least the 16 lots got sold had at least 10% to 60 % profit.

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          K Tan says 7 years ago

          So what happens to those not sold?

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            Ares says 6 years ago

            one of those lots were mine and they emailed me to say it was an error or someone bid but did not pay. DO not believe what you see as sold in those places. THEY were certainly not sold

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derek says 7 years ago

have 2005 Torbreck run rig shirza vionger. may reach me at 96793689

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    Ann says 7 years ago

    R u the trader? What is the valuation?

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Bid for Wine Singapore says 7 years ago

We are buying Torbreck ‘The Factor’. Please contact us if you have any in stock.

Thanks.

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derek says 7 years ago

be it 1st /2nd or 3rd auction.more important is whether anyone had successufully allocated for any of the said auction and wat kind of procedure that awi have adopted?

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Kk says 7 years ago

Their first auction is still on Aug. Nov is going to be their 3rd one.

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Marcus says 7 years ago

Hi, I invested in AWI. When I want to trade them, there need me to invest more inorder to go into NOV China Auction. Is there any condidtion in order to fgo into auction?

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    EW Yeo says 7 years ago

    Previously was Aug now Nov? Pls this will not happened, why u still believe in them?

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Ann says 7 years ago

Does anyone receive call from AWI recenty by saying ” eveything is in hand, the China auction is in process and the result will be out on August. U will get your wine back” sth like that.

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    JW says 7 years ago

    You mean you received a call from them/who? What’s your portfolio like? Have they sent you documents to sign to authorize sales of your wines at Shanghai? Did they mention anything about what happens when the auction was unsuccessful for 3 times and attempts to sell locally in China fails? Will the wines still belong to you and what’s the storage, insurance, bank transfer charges like? What happens when all else fails and your wines are already in Shanghai?

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Ann says 7 years ago

Hi guys,
AWI has changed the procedure to withdraw the wine in storage. I got an email saying that we are allowed to take out our wine only “assisted” by AWI’s staff. How rediculous! Has anyone bring out his/her wine from Menlo recently?

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Robert Rees says 7 years ago

We have interest in those. Please email me at [email protected] to arrange an evaluation.

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Robert Rees says 7 years ago

We are currently buying Kilikanoon 2003 vintage wines. Please contact me if you have any of this stock.

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    derek says 7 years ago

    have 2005 kilikanoon boxed flagship collection and 2005 torbreck run rig shiraz viognier

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PLA SCAM says 7 years ago

they are a SCAM. everyone report to CAD in Singapore if you have not heard from PLA in the last few weeks.

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PLA_BadNews says 8 years ago

I heard, and I’m sorry, that PLA is effectively bankrupt. Staff haven’t been paid for two months, high level executive went on holiday never to return, and people (like “Invest”) are filing police reports.

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winebuyer says 8 years ago

Hi Invest
I have bought wine from PLA myself in HK, is there any way to verify that the wine my certificate represents really exists and belongs to me? Are you in Singapore?.

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Invest says 8 years ago

my payment is over due by 12 weeks. many calls , no answer , broker no reply no answer. anyway i have made a police report and to commercial affair department. it does not matter to me anymore. let the CAD handle.

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    Ann says 7 years ago

    Have you got any reply from CAD? Will it be useful?

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so1trg says 8 years ago

Hi Invest,

I did managed to get back my investment monies with profit from PLA. However I was very careful with them wanting to exit at the first possible instance.
I bought the 08 En-Primeur and exited last year Nov 10.
They are a bit slow, maybe you want to be a little patient with them.

Just to add that when I exited they asked me if i was interested to invest in their “Fixed Deposits” investment type in their En-primeur 10.
Also I noticed throughout 2010, they were hawking some kind of “collective investment schemes” with their wine. Bundling different wines together in a fund or something.

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Invest says 8 years ago

I am having problem with getting money from Premium Liquid Assets , anyone else?

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alex says 8 years ago

Any AWI investors have already signed the Auction Authorize Letter for the Shanghai Auction held in August?

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Choi says 8 years ago

At this present time , I cant believed people still goes into “guarantee return” ” fixed return”,investment, grow up guys.

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    Jay says 8 years ago

    Guarantee return have! Why dun have. Only thing is lesser then inflation lor. Like 0.125% pa that kind of stuff. Its guaranteed! LOL

    Reply
Tham says 8 years ago

Dear All
Look below , hope this will happen to wine investment too. companies in sg is doing fixed returns, guarantee returns..all need to be check.

SIAS aware of plight of Profitable Plot investors

Apr 25

SINGAPORE: Securities Investors Association Singapore (SIAS) said it is aware of the plight of people who have invested in various Profitable Plot schemes.

In a media statement, SIAS said it will conduct a dialogue session with concerned Profitable Plot investors at 7pm on May 28 to discuss possible action for investment recovery.

SIAS will also assist with legal counsel.

Land banking firm Profitable Plots Private Limited is currently under probe by the Commercial Affairs Department.

Previous reports said that investors have put in some S$23.5 million in the company’s products.

About 4000 such investors who bought the products expecting high returns are now at risk of losing their money.

Some investors have alleged that the risks of the investments were never fully explained to them

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Julian says 8 years ago

To many Ex AWI an existing wine brokers on here! Many of them chatting and cheating behind assumed names.

Watch out anyone who believes what they are reading.

Carry on and listen to your girlfriends advice there is no such thing a free lunch.

If you spent time on worth while due diligence no of you would have got burnt.

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Pete says 8 years ago

Hi Lawrence

You are not the only one here received the call , i too, but told them off.

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grant burge says 8 years ago

Hi Eddie,

I am new to this, and thot this is what they say about pref shares.

the ”guaranteed” returns for the pref shares are not guaranteed if the company is not doing well, unfortunately.

http://www.martinlee.sg/preference-shares/

in order of ‘safety’, bonds->pref shares-> ordinary shares.

and there is implication on the pref share price when the interest goes up ( which is likely direction for the future)…

btw, for the 150k in commercial prop, most likely, there will be a loan to take, so the return may be lesser than 10% after deducting the cost of loan…. but surely a better investment than wine. But as they always said, location is key when it comes to property… residential or commercial.

have a great weekend.

rgds,

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Lawrence TH says 8 years ago

Dear All

Thanks , I guess I will not go ahead to invest with the fixed return, spoken to my girl friend, she told me there is no such thing as “guarantee return” no free lunch. She also told me that why dont the company keep the wines themselves and made extra 12% rather then giving the 12% to me.

I understood now, thanks all.

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    Eddie says 8 years ago

    Lawrence TH,

    Why don’t u consider investing in Hyflux Pref Shares ?

    These are “guaranteed” 6% returns. (They can’t pay ord shareholders till they pay the pref shareholders)

    The subscription is on till next Wed 12pm. U can apply thru DBS or UOB internet banking.

    Also, if you have at least 150k to invest, you might as well consider a commercial property. These are not subject to the existing housing rules and the yield for most commercials are close to 10%.

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JW says 8 years ago

The fact that you are still asking means you have not really understood what all of us are saying. If you are impressed by their company go ahead…..Has it ever occurred to you where did they get their money from to do up such a posh office? Note: This is a rhetorical question. Look at the spa saga. Aren’t they done up well, didn’t they go on TV? Didn’t they have multiple posh chains in prime area? Finally what happened? You can still choose to believe what you see though, I can’t stop you from thinking so.

FYI, this form of investment is not regulated by MAS. If you ask why is the government not regulating, ask the gov. Don’t ask us. In fact even if the gov is involved, they can’t do much. It’s your investment decision. Why does the government have to be held for your wrong investment decision?

We were previously guaranteed but look where we are at now. We can go to court……then you got to chalk up extra for legal fees. Are you prepared to chalk up legal fees? Is the legal fees going to be worth it? Such cases can go for years. Basically if I’m going to court it’s no longer to get back what I invested. It’s to bring them down. Since I’m going down, might as well pull them together to keep me company. But even with all that said you still feel that it’s too good a chance to miss, no one can stop you. Make your choice, invest with the potential of 12% ‘guaranteed’ returns or lose it all. If it’s a risk worth to take for you, go ahead. We’ve already said our piece.

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grant burge says 8 years ago

corrections:

2. When a company closes shop, i am very sure you will not be anywhere high up on the list of creditors… so what is your chances of recovering money?? close to zero.

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grant burge says 8 years ago

Hi Lawrence,

it is good that you are finding out more before ‘investing’.

2. When a company closes shop i am very sure you will not able anyway high up on the list of creditors… so what is your chances of recovering money?? close to zero.

3) black and white… u want to bring them to court if they dun pay? All the trouble, cost, mental of going thru?? When you can avoid it in the first place?

5) wine investment is not regulated…. government dun control….

6) who gurarantee? The company that does not honour the white and white or closes shop??

i was a victim of these wine investments…. still have a few boxes of the wine at home…. drinking them every now and then…

i think it is not worth the risks and your marriage for the 12% (that is if they materialised and realised… we are not talking about paper gain… )

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Lawrence TH says 8 years ago

Dear jw ,grant burge and Doulos

Duulos thanks and will talk to my girl friend about it.
Jw :You are right , the co used to be in tanjong pagar, can you tell me more about what happened to your friend and why didnt he go and report if they promised to refund and never happened?
although i have not yet invest in the 12% fixed return, but can i ask a few questions so that i will have a clearer picture,
1.what if i invest and by 12 months they did not pay me back the initial invetsment plus 12 percent fixed return which they promised?
2.Grant burge mentioned that what if the co close in 11th month, what can i do ?
3.does black and white means anything in wine investment
4.has anyone else been to the co other then me , it is rather nice and do you think anything will happen since they spend so much money in the office
5.I have read up so many commments about wine invetsment here, but why there isnt any government body who can do something about them
6.is guarantee returns safe
hope i can get more info from all investors

thanks and appreciate

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    EW says 8 years ago

    Hi Lawrence,

    No wines so far, guaranteed 12% fixed return. Yes, some do returned more than that, but only a handful of the top premium labels, mostly french, which most of these goes direct to the regular buyers year in and year out. It’s seldom flowed out of the market. Those you see in the markets are most likely 2nd or 3rd hand transaction done already. So if you think Australia wines can goes up so much, think again. In fact with the wines market so open up, you can look up the price online, there’s several online wine shops in Australia which are very reliable. In fact if you buy direct from them, you can get discount about 15% off from the retail value online for the tax etc. Also some provide free freight to Singapore when you buy beyond certain amount.

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JW says 8 years ago

I agree with Doulos and grant burge. Now that you mention that it used to be in Tanjong Pagar area, especially Tras Street, 100% hoax. You’ll NEVER get your money back. Not even a single cent. My friend was overcharged by them. They admitted it. Say will refund the excess….it never happened. DON’T take that risk though it’s very attractive. DON’T risk your money and marriage. Not point over ‘promised’ 12% returns. I totally agree with the illiquidity of wines. I’ve been in it for 8 years……one of the first few clients of AWI…..my client number is definitely somewhere near the top….look at my plight…..basically there’s no free lunch. Aren’t examples around and here enough to deter you? Make your choice, lose out on the possibility of making 12% returns (we too can’t be 100% sure that this isn’t a hoax) or lose all your investment/money, ruin your wedding and ruin your life. If you are prepared for the latter situation and want to take that risk by all means go ahead. There’s no one stopping you. After all it’s your money. The rest of us can’t make the decision for you.

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    Ex Employee says 7 years ago

    DO NOT INVEST IN WINE IN SINGAPORE. IT IS ALL A SCAM !! I WORKED @ AWI FOR A PERIOD.

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      angry bird says 6 years ago

      please reveal your identity to my email [email protected] i need all info and operational flow from you. i appreciate you coming here to help and it take guts

      Reply
grant burge says 8 years ago

Hi Lawrence,

my opinion is do NOT take the risk…it is not worth it.

– you may not be able to afford to lose this money…it is for your wedding?
– ok… 12%, what if the company close shop on the 11th mth?? even the wine in your name, you may have to come up with more money to withdraw them (gst + alcohol tax)…
– yes, you may use the wine for your wedding dinner…but this is provided the wine is under your name in the warehouse, what if they are not?
– AWI in the past told me they can achieve 20% per annum, but in the end, at best, the 20% is on paper…. i offered them to sell at 20% loss, they also cannot do it… so, you still believe in 12% buy back? If yes, refer to #1…
– high returns comes with high risks… r u game to lose all?
– i am not saying this is likely to be ponzi or boiler room scam, but if it is too good to be true, it is very likely you will not see your money eventually…. why eventually? usually, to make it convincing, they may pay you 1st few times to get to ‘hooked’ big time….

I think it is better for your to FixD your money with bank and have a great wedding when the time comes…

rgds,

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Lawrence TH says 8 years ago

JW, thanks.The co seems to have 5 years in business. They used to be in tanjong pagar area , recently moved to orchard. As for exit strategy, they told me to sell back to them after 12 months and give me fixed returns , is this consider safe? I really dont know about what is safe or not , but the 12 percent fixed returns is rather tempting, it is even better then all the banks in singapore for fixed deposit.

The reason why I am asking is because I need some money ready for my wedding, so i need to ask around in this forum. Hope someone can give me more info on investing in wines.

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    Doulos says 8 years ago

    Don’t be tempted by the high return, is a jackup figures. I got stuck until now without been able to liquidate money for my wedding. Keep it in bank is safer since you need it for wedding. Wine investment is not as liquid as it sound and is not regulated so is a high risk investment.

    Reply
    Mummy says 7 years ago

    Don’t just trust in nice office. Profitable Group has a nice office in Tanjong Pagar and they were in business for a few years too.

    I’ve been scammed out of a five-figure sum and recently I was trying to sell my AWI portfolio but the sales rep Charles refused to reply my email.

    Now that I’m checking up on AWI then I realised I’m going to be scammed a 2nd time. This is really painful!!!!!

    I suggest we should stay off all this unofficial investment business and just buy into stocks and shares directly or just stuff our pillow with our money.

    Twice scammed by all these alternative investment and I’m not going to trust any of them.

    In fact, I’m surprised that MAS is not actively regulating these investment vehicles. Our government regulate maid agencies. private education agencies and housing agents but these investment firms where people can lose up to $200k is left unregulated. Something is really not right.

    And these scammers know that reporting to police also no use. After they shifted our money out, what can police help in? We still can’t get our money back.

    Can someone please give me a glimmer of hope that I can get my 5-figure sum back from those wines????

    Reply
      Robert Rees says 7 years ago

      We have been helping a number of people sell their portfolios. If you would like to send me a schedule of what you own I would be happy to evaluate it for you.

      Regards
      Robert

      Reply
      Ex Employee says 7 years ago

      You will never see a penny from AWI, it is all a rather large ponzi scheme covered legally by the local laws. The old MD has fled to Shang hi and the staff are slowly leaving. A closure is in sight. The best option is collectively head to the office and seek revenge behind closed doors.

      If you are really interested in seeking revenge and or any money back let me know?

      Reply
      Ex Employee says 7 years ago

      Unfortunately you will never see any money returned unless you collectively join forces and head down to the office before their planned closure. In their carefully planned ‘ponzi’ scheme they have drawn in a buy back option where they buy back the stock to stop the client screaming to the press or other potential clients.

      There is one other option to consider, let me know if you are interested?

      Reply
      steve says 7 years ago

      Hi,

      I have read your forum through AWI and I would like to talk to you on how can I help you.

      Reach me in my mobile : + 65 96386916

      Look forward to hear from you. I will be away from jan 16 to 28 2012. call me once you recieved.

      Reply
JW says 8 years ago

Basically if the wine’s not under your name forget it. No one here has any idea about the company that you mention…..no track record not safe…..if they can’t give you an concrete exit strategy…not safe……really……I’m prepare to lose all my 5 digit with AWI. If you are not willing to lose. Don’t go ahead…..rule of thumb. Invest what you are willing to lose.

Reply
Lawrence TH says 8 years ago

Dear JW and EW

Thanks for the info.
EW: the co is located in a high end shopping mall in orchard, they have nice office and i was impressed, but other then impressed, I still made up my mind to do my own research first before i invest in the fixed return of 12% a year. Do you think i can go ahead, am i safe?

Of course i cannot afford to drink them if the wines are not making money, but looking at the fixed return of 12% a year , i guess I do not have to drink them .

JW: thanks. Any advise on this co , will the investment be safe?

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JW says 8 years ago

Till now I’ve not heard anything good about wine investments. If the french wine broker that you mention is in Tanjong Pagar, forget it. Their customers are in worse state than AWI. At worst case, at AWI anything happens we still can withdraw it and get ourselves drunk.

Not sure for other companies……mostly would be like the other wine brokerage that folded. All wines are considered the company’s asset and are auctioned off to repay creditors. End of the day you’ll be left with nothing.

By the way, heard of someone who invested in French wines and could not get his 5 digit investment back.

Reply
Lawrence TH says 8 years ago

hi need some tips from wine expert here. Recently someone call me offering a fixed return of 12% in a year to buy french wines , they seems to be a reputable company as I have visited them in their office. Has anyone here came across this investment? please enlighten me on this issue. thanks alot

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    EW says 8 years ago

    What’s the company? Anyway french wine eventhough the chances of profit is higher than all aussie wines. But still it totally dependent on wine critics and vintages. Mainly bordeaux I presummed. Eg. vintages like 07, most of the people who bought en premier did not made any money and some even lost money on it. Mainly because 07 is a water shed vintage. Burgundy and Rhone are a totally different story. The most highly profit vintage is the 08 which see some Chateaux went up more the 300% upon ep price. The next highly speculative vinatge will be the 10, but I doubt the price will open cheap.

    So Lawrence, if you think of investing in wine, are you prepared to drink everything if they don’t sell or made any profit?

    Reply
Desmond, Bid for Wine says 8 years ago

We have helped many ex-clients of AWI and UAG liquidate their wine holdings and continue to do so.

Desmond

[email protected]

http://www.bidforwine.sg
http://www.bidforwine.co.uk

Reply
JW says 8 years ago

Edward Davidson promised to schedule my wines for auction in June. He signed an agreement stating that in the event the auction falls through, AWI will purchase my portfolio and at certain agreed pricing and make payment by end of July. The agreement was printed on AWI’s letter head, with Edward’s signature and AWI’s company stamp. Now he’s denying he ever signed such an agreement and has fled to Shanghai. He’s handphone is no longer contactable.

Reply
    lioninvestor says 8 years ago

    That sucks. Can that be taken as a case of cheating and reported to the police?

    Reply
      JW says 8 years ago

      Apparently the case has been taken up to Andrew and there’s going to be a discussion with them on Tues. We’ll see how things go. Hopefully I don’t have to turn things ugly with them.

      Reply
EW says 8 years ago

Pls everyone, I cannot believe you all out there still believe in more of AWI stories. Just sell whatever you can asap if you want to get back your money. Full amount I doubt so, but certain amount for sure , maybe 50% . As I said earlier, auction wines in China need not only import papers, lab reports as well who’s going to pay for such lab reports.

WAKE FROM YOUR DREAM

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kk says 8 years ago

I have received news from a member of my group that AWI emailed him that the March auction has been postponed.

http://australia-wine-index.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=news&action=display&thread=20

Did anyone else received this email?

Reply
    Ke says 8 years ago

    Yes. I recieved the same mail.

    Reply
    Doulos says 8 years ago

    Yes, I rec that email saying they can’t preceed at the moment due to regulatory in China and they are working at it and will inform us of a new date later.

    They also invited me for a open communication session with AWI Managing Director, Andrew Bassett.

    Reply
Grant Burge says 8 years ago

Agreed… and with alot of people’s money sucked and stucked in those wine. They sent those valuations reports with 10-20% percent increase a year, but yet cannot sell anything even at cost. It is that fishy.

If you want to talk to them, tell them you want to buy a few 100k of wine. I am sure you will be hearing from them real soon…not just one, but many of them will be calling you… 🙂

Reply
Australian Wine Index Scam says 8 years ago

Australian Wine Index is a complete joke.

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Ann says 8 years ago

Hi Kk,
i support what you have done against AWI. but can we take a legail method to sue AWI? Otherwise our portfolio can not be recovered…

Reply
    kianan says 6 years ago

    let our Australia friends : –
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected]wisa.org.au,
    [email protected],
    [email protected]

    to look a what AWI’s shit are :
    10/15/10
    to info, Darren
    Dear Darren,

    1 very basis opinion, the last 3 collection are never more than SG:200/- per bottle, today U recommend a very exceptional and excellence quality wain, are there in par?

    If U want me to put more money into investment, pls. advice how to unload the existing portfolio? What type of assurance to be profited from the investment w AWI?

    Based on my experience, i only being called when there is new wine to be purchased. Including this time. Pls. talk to your management and/or superior, i am a doubtful investor.
    What is the additional gain by adding on R Anomorphosis ?

    Thank you.

    Regards,

    Ch’ng
    attachement : http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/r+shiraz+anamorphosi

    From: Darren Edwards
    Date: Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 5:59 PM
    Subject: RE: Anamorphosis
    Hi Mr Ch’ng,
    I appreciate your concern. Please also be mindful that this is the third time I have spoken with you, and the first time I have suggested further investment.
    My recommendation that you take one last investment and incorporate the Anamorphosis into your portfolio is simply because it will complete the set.
    A set is easier to sell and adds much more value to a portfolio, just as a full set of antiques for example is more valuable than an individual item.
    The guarantee that you have is clear. You have seen it for yourself at winesearcher.com that this wine is retailing at a significantly higher price than what we are offering it to you at.

    Our price of $330 per bottle Sing includes bonding, storage, and insurance for upto three (3) years. It is imperative that your wine is kept in bond in order to ensure perfect provenance when selling on in the future.

    We will unload your portfolio at auction early next year. This wine will boost your returns when added to your existing collection.

    Yours,

    Darren Edwards

    Sound Familiar

    Reply
kk says 8 years ago

I am forming a group of investors who believe they are scammed by AWI. The number of responses I have received is growing but the rate is not fast enough, I need more of you to join us. Regardless of whether the intention is to take action against AWI or to make plans for alternative exit strategies, none of these can work without strength in numbers. Join us to form a critical mass by going to this website http://australia-wine-index-fraud.blogspot.com/

Reply
kk says 8 years ago

AWI marketed its Shanghai auction on internet’s free press websites. If it is that authentic, why put it on dubious and unknown news sources?

http://www.free-press-release.com/news-shanghai-international-commodity-auction-guopai-signs-joint-agreement-with-australian-wine-index-1292588224.html

Unfortunately, some victims actually believed its authenticity because it looks like a real piece of news and ended up buying more wine from AWI. Got to take my hats off.

To show you how easy it is to put up a news, look at this http://www.free-press-release.com/news-shanghai-international-commodity-auction-guopai-signs-joint-agreement-with-australian-wine-index-1292588224.html

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kk says 8 years ago

Yes you better start looking for lawyers urgently because you are going to need a lot of legal help once you receive the writs from us. This is going to be a criminal case and we have a big enough group now to warrant an investigation. Please don’t go into hiding when the time comes.

Reply
    Grape Hope says 8 years ago

    i had checked earlier with Shanghai Auction, they seem like don’t hv much biz. bond w AWI.
    But AWI ever advertised and showed that they already had the understanding for the cooperation.

    Let act together.

    Reply
Robert says 8 years ago

We have closed applicantions for wines to sell for the moment. We will advise you once more when we are ready to take on more stock for sale.

Regards
[email protected]

Reply
antipasti says 8 years ago

Can someone who can read mandarin check this website and see if there is any mention of the wine auction on 25th March 2011?

http://www.alltobid.com/guopai/

This looks like it is the Shanghai International Commodities Auction. If this assumption is wrong, appreciate if you could let me know too. Thank you.

Reply
    Ann says 8 years ago

    Hi antipasti,
    I check the website you provided, but no any news about wine acution…

    Reply
    EW says 8 years ago

    Ok…..if anyone suspicion of AWI auction, u check to see if they did any lab reports for the wines they wanna auction in Shanghai. Because according to several merchants who export to China, they told me all the wines needed lab reports and mind u it’s 1 report per label. I bet there’s more than 100 labels AWI wanna auction off. Who’s going to pay for the reports? That’s the reason why many merchants only wanna sell wines to HK and let the HK merchants dealed with transhipment issue.

    Reply
    Jay says 8 years ago

    Actually there’s a news on the following link:

    http://www.alltobid.com/guopai/contents/156/1465.html?__r=2046

    However, I am still skeptical. AWI keep mentioning liquidation of the Portfolio will be easier if I owns a vertical, horizontal or whatever collection. Keep asking me to buy in more.

    Honesty speaking, I rather trade. Full control on my side. Haha

    Would like to check if there is anyone who managed to liquidate or sold off their wine collection in the Shanghai Auction?

    Reply
    Grape Hope says 8 years ago

    Nothing mention about wine auction.

    Reply
    Grape Hope says 8 years ago

    http://www.alltobid.com/guopai/contents/67/1404.html

    The only mentioned about wine Auction is Chinese Aged Rice Wine Auction on 9 June 2011.

    Reply
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